Debate: Will the Coronavirus outbreak affect the reefing community

[naothan]

4 hours ago, banasophia said:

Well I’m 100% certain the president did not encourage anyone to ingest fish medicine. Chloroquine is a legitimate prescription medication approved for other uses, and as with all prescription medications, should only be taken as prescribed by ones healthcare provider, and should only be used if it’s actual medication that has been safely produced for human use. 

that was natural selection at work 

[Clown79]

3 hours ago, Melfy77 said:

Fear makes people do really stupid things...like stockpiling toilet paper. Like seriously what are you gonna do with 671 rolls of toilet paper?!! I Guess they could mummify themselves with it in 2078 (facepalm). Now eggs are nowhere to be found. This pandemic is serious. Many people (mostly elderly people) will most likely die. I'm in Québec (canada) and the prime minister didn't wait. Everything except grocery stores and pharmacies are pretty much closed. Take out food is ok. People are asked to stay home and avoid gatherings. Yet many people (young and old) are not listening. I'm a nurse and I'm 5 months pregnant with my 3rd and I'm scared, worried and fed up!! We are treated like dirt by the gouvernment, we are running out of masks (all kinds), purell and gloves. Nurses working in the er are not allowed to wear masks because there's simply not enough. I'm "lucky" because I work in a nursing home, but the moment we get a case, it's game over. People need to listen!! Otherwise everyone is screwed and we'll end up like Italy...so I bought myself a treat, went online and got some corals, should be here tomorrow😁

Sorry for the rant...hormones lol

The Prime Minister has closed nothing. The emergency act would need to be enacted.

 

 

Maybe in Quebec everything is closed but not the rest of Canada.

 

Our list of essential businesses to stay open is ridiculous. 74 categories with sub categories in each.

 

https://www.ontario.ca/page/list-essential-workplaces

 

Basically, not much has changed besides more contradictions 

[A.m.P]

1 hour ago, banasophia said:

Well I’m 100% certain the president did not encourage anyone to ingest fish medicine. Chloroquine is a legitimate prescription medication approved for other uses, and as with all prescription medications, should only be taken as prescribed by ones healthcare provider, and should only be used if it’s actual medication that has been safely produced for human use. 

He, alongside fox news, absolutely did encourage taking multiple off-label medications, just this AM Hannity had a manifesto from an "anonymous doctor" with a totally-whacked-out treatment plan that he prattled-off, on air, to Pence in a phone-conference.

That is, of course, in addition to it "being a hoax", "not being a big deal", "hold your breath for 10 seconds and you don't have it", "not worth the economic impact", "go about life as normal", "It's the best time to travel", "a Democratic impeachment hoax", "blown out of proportion", "over-hyped", "okay we're no longer hosting audiences inexplicably", actually I'm not going to list it all here - there's no point.

If we valued the opinions and advice of the scientific-communities responsible for all of human-progress over those of two-year social-media grads with pretty-faces on air, we'd likely be in a different place right now.

[banasophia]

19 minutes ago, Amphrites said:

He, alongside fox news, absolutely did encourage taking multiple off-label medications, just this AM Hannity had a manifesto from an "anonymous doctor" with a totally-whacked-out treatment plan that he prattled-off, on air, to Pence in a phone-conference.

Hmmm still pretty sure he never said to take fish medicine. And believe me, I’m not a fan of the President, so it’s not like I’m blindly defending him. Doctors can prescribe FDA approved medications for off label use, but obviously doctors need to prescribe it, not politicians...  

[Tamberav]

He talked about the drug on air and guess what... some uneducated soul had some on his shelf and took it. Mr President said it was an approved drug for covid... which is it is not!!

 

Also my phone I blowing up about "Trumps back-to-work plan" 🤣
 

Still waiting on the PPE he promised? 

[RedCrow]

5 hours ago, Snow_Phoenix said:

Face masks are nearly impossible to find

Can’t even get construction masks here (something I actually need). I found an Auto parts store in my area that had two, so I bought them. Of course the filter cartridges are just about as difficult to find right now.. 

[Lypto]

I have one from welding and plasma cutting, but the thing is nearly a space helmet and not really good to move in. 

[jack1978]

Maybe it’s “too soon”, but if an idiot decided to eat mosquito killer made for pond use ...... I think this is Darwinism playing out. 
 

 

[A.m.P]

13 minutes ago, jack1978 said:

Maybe it’s “too soon”, but if an idiot decided to eat mosquito killer made for pond use ...... I think this is Darwinism playing out. 
 

 

I don't know how many times I have to repeat that invoking social darwinism shows a lack of understanding both of evolution, and of society - especially of themselves and their place within it.

 

Desperate people clinging to the false-hopes instilled in them by charlatans in places of influence are not wholly-responsible for trying to keep themselves from dying, the children of antivaxers, the autistic children being fed and given bleach enemas, the people engaging in all-forms of woocraft from crystals, to keto-diets are no more responsible for being victimized than you were in acquisition of your first language.

That's just how social-psychology works, people aren't un-influenceable islands of libertarian free-will, most of what you do and who you are, were, and continue to be is determined by your environment and people within it, sorry.

[Lypto]

I think that this is less of social darwinism in the economic sense and more in the survival and judgement skills sense. It's still quite sad though and frankly a lot of people would do something similarly uneducated and dangerous. Panic and false information makes for bad results, for example cutting windex with bleach to make it last longer, "cause they both work for killing germs right?" If you don't know or no one told you, it's something that could easily happen. Plus we're all nervous primates who make mistakes. I actually needed some chloroquine for an ich case but I guess I'll just use cupramine. 

[ECLS Reefer]

25 minutes ago, jack1978 said:

Maybe it’s “too soon”, but if an idiot decided to eat mosquito killer made for pond use ...... I think this is Darwinism playing out. 
 

 

It was too soon 👏🏼😉

[A.m.P]

12 minutes ago, Lypto said:

I think that this is less of social darwinism in the economic sense and more in the survival and judgement skills sense. It's still quite sad though and frankly a lot of people would do something similarly uneducated and dangerous. Panic and false information makes for bad results, for example cutting windex with bleach to make it last longer, "cause they both work for killing germs right?" If you don't know or no one told you, it's something that could easily happen. Plus we're all nervous primates who make mistakes. I actually needed some chloroquine for an ich case but I guess I'll just use cupramine. 

Nothing in our evolution or social-software innately or adequately-prepares any individual for the vast-majority of decisions and complexities of modern-life. 
Our evolution built us to track medium-sized objects at medium-speed in the plains of Africa, invoking something which doesn't act in single generations or even necessarily move towards efficient or correct solutions to justify much of anything is a non-starter relying on pop-culture memetics which depict what people think evolution is and not what it actually is.

Past that, yeah I agree lol, that's the point.

[ECLS Reefer]

2 minutes ago, Amphrites said:

Nothing in our evolution or social-software innately or adequately-prepares any individual for the vast-majority of decisions and complexities of modern-life. 
Our evolution built us to track medium-sized objects at medium-speed in the plains of Africa, invoking something which doesn't act in single generations or even necessarily move towards efficient or correct solutions to justify much of anything is a non-starter relying more on pop-culture memetics which depict what people think evolution is and not what it actually is.

Past that, yeah I agree lol, that's the point.

You know I’m a smart person and I can make your head spin talking about cardiothoracic surgical repair for children with congenital heart defects, as well as the medication, modalities, and methods to keep them alive during their hospital course, as well as multiple life support equipment choices and how to manage, setup and maintain extracorporeal membrane oxygenation. 
 

 

But your whole comment above— went waaaaay over my head. 

[jack1978]

4 minutes ago, Dirté Sanchez said:

It was too soon 👏🏼😉

I always get there early.

[A.m.P]

20 minutes ago, Dirté Sanchez said:

You know I’m a smart person and I can make your head spin talking about cardiothoracic surgical repair for children with congenital heart defects, as well as the medication, modalities, and methods to keep them alive during their hospital course, as well as multiple life support equipment choices and how to manage, setup and maintain extracorporeal membrane oxygenation. 
 

 

But your whole comment above— went waaaaay over my head. 

Lol, something makes me doubt it actually went over your head, it was likely just a failure to communicate on my end =p

 

All I was saying was that there's not some kind of abstraction of thinking or intelligence being selected-for in this instance, nor were there any evolutionary pressures or precursors which would have instilled them in us to begin with. And even if there were, the assumption that there are meaningful, transferrable, or otherwise inherent methodologies of thinking or tangible-intelligence to select-for and have passed-down in single generations isn't correct either.

 

We, as a species, are a few hundred years of social-physchology and memetics away from needing to be told not to run around in our birthday suits defecating on buildings. Historically-speaking we did and believed far, far dumber things just a few decades ago and we have not "evolved" or become more intelligent since then. Our progress and apparent-intelligence relies and lies entirely within intellectual and scientific communities and incremental societal-progress which we all Intuit and understand within the first few years of our life just from passive-exposure (this combination of social-physchology and a few other concepts is frequently referred-to as "social software" and may be the only significant-defining trait allowing for our explosive-progress compared to other animals)

[ECLS Reefer]

26 minutes ago, Amphrites said:

Lol, something makes me doubt it actually went over your head, it was likely just a failure to communicate on my end =p

 

All I was saying was that there's not some kind of abstraction of thinking or intelligence being selected-for in this instance, nor were there any evolutionary pressures or precursors which would have instilled them in us to begin with. And even if there were, the assumption that there are meaningful, transferrable, or otherwise inherent methodologies of thinking or tangible-intelligence to select-for and have passed-down in single generations isn't correct either.

 

We, as a species, are a few hundred years of social-physchology and memetics away from needing to be told not to run around in our birthday suits defecating on buildings. Historically-speaking we did and believed far, far dumber things just a few decades ago and we have not "evolved" or become more intelligent since then. Our progress and apparent-intelligence relies and lies entirely within intellectual and scientific communities and incremental societal-progress which we all Intuit and understand within the first few years of our life just from passive-exposure (this combination of social-physchology and a few other concepts is frequently referred-to as "social software" and may be the only significant-defining trait allowing for our explosive-progress compared to other animals)

For reals you vastly underestimate my brain power at the moment, having to learn how to homeschool two kids today and repair a pond pump and not murder my husband who also is trapped in this obnoxious National time out. They all need some Nap Time, maybe even I do. 

 

 

I firmly believe in the Darwin awards, and all

possible connotations of how you may apply them. 
 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_Awards

 

note- they apply merely because a human died and therefore contributed to human evolution by learning from their example good bad or ugly, by contributing to their death by their own actions. There’s no social blame to lay here- they did something by choice and it killed them. Trump didn’t explicitly say “take chloroquine and live!” I believe he said it may work and was being investigated. But of course the media, who’s driven almost all of the panic for the crisis we are in, and in an election year so by god lets jump on some bandwagon and beat a drum- latch onto anything he says and twist it to their use, good bad or ugly. Usually just ugly and negative. They haven’t done much at all in reporting ANY SINGLE THING he may have done right or have done to help. It’s always just that he’s a giant d bag and we should all hate him. 
 

Personally, I’m sick of being quarantined to the point of wanting to claw my own eyes out 

 

But I’m MORE sick of the constant stream of angst, anxiety and negativity filled garbage from the media. They haven’t helped this crisis even by one gnat hair’s effort.

[A.m.P]

The panic is just something people do, media wise I've not seen much more than "wash your hands, quit touching your face, and stop hoarding".
If anything they seem to be playing the role of exhausted daycare workers in a room full of kinder-gardeners. 

In the court of law you do not need to "explicitly say to do something", implied meaning matters as does holding folks accountable for what they say and do "good, bad, ugly or otherwise" in-general (although call-out and outrage culture are toxic).People aren't quite that level of individual-actors either, which is the main-point I was trying to make; full-stop libertarian style free-will died in the 80's with the progress of modern neuroscience - these days compatibilism is the best you can hope for.


During the Spanish Flu outbreak in the US the fed assumed control of the media and ran propaganda 24/7 about how "the flu isn't here", "we're winning", "sailors may have a flue but not the "spanish flu", "the spanish flu doesn't exist", "This will all blow over by summer". 

In response people caused depression-era bareshelves in grocers, would talk to family through windows, and watched their neighbors and their children die of thirst rather than intervene, locking themselves in their own houses and, in some cases, nearly or actually starving to-death rather than going outside.
In fact local authorities were flatly-ignored while begging for volunteers, supplies, or even common-decency from the populace. 

There are quite a few good books on the matter floating around, but here's a nice, short article on it
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/journal-plague-year-180965222/?fbclid=IwAR0C-ZReiT2mVxvviyCm-SCFykrkogvgYbchJqS3nOl-wDxcp4vNK2e1nno

All-in-all, I think we're doing fairly-well this time around.

[RedCrow]

1 hour ago, Amphrites said:

Desperate people clinging to the false-hopes instilled in them by charlatans in places of influence are not wholly-responsible for trying to keep themselves from dying, the children of antivaxers, the autistic children being fed and given bleach enemas, the people engaging in all-forms of woocraft from crystals, to keto-diets are no more responsible for being victimized than you were in acquisition of your first language.

Being born into circumstances =/= choosing them, to some degree or another, as an adult.

 

Like you said, circumstance plays a majority role in your decision-making, but you as an adult have the power and resources to know better.

[A.m.P]

13 minutes ago, RedCrow said:

Being born into circumstances =/= choosing them, to some degree or another, as an adult.

 

Like you said, circumstance plays a majority role in your decision-making, but you as an adult have the power and resources to know better.

That really depends, but this isn't the place to get into that can of worms lol.

I'll leave a thought here, using Stanford business-persuasion models google took the average youtube view-time from 15 minutes to over 2 hours, post-acquisition, within a matter of a year or two of course, that was not the result of any adult's direct decision-making or typical-notions of agency - nor was it a coincidence. It was a direct-consequence of people being much easier to persuade than we like to imagine.

[Picogoby]

3 hours ago, jack1978 said:

I always get there early.

That’s what your lady says too!

[jack1978]

16 minutes ago, Picogoby said:

That’s what your lady says too!

You’re a little late to the party!

-But welcome aboard.

[ECLS Reefer]

31 minutes ago, jack1978 said:

You’re a little late to the party!

-But welcome aboard.

You have the tattoo for that?

[Lypto]

I think there may be a highly selectable trait of an instinct to not consume unknown things, but then again kids just put stuff in their mouths and reefers start siphons with their mouths. However, good judgement as a result of intelligence is a survival trait. In regard to the original posts topic, My local LFS may actually be closing permanently which is quite sad. It's rare to see a new one open.

[A.m.P]

2 hours ago, Lypto said:

I think there may be a highly selectable trait of an instinct to not consume unknown things, but then again kids just put stuff in their mouths and reefers start siphons with their mouths. However, good judgement as a result of intelligence is a survival trait. In regard to the original posts topic, My local LFS may actually be closing permanently which is quite sad. It's rare to see a new one open.

Good Judgement, like Common sense - does not cross-over cultural or societal-boundaries and otherwise doesn't really exist in an appreciable-form. Stupidly-enough, sticking random things in your mouth and eating them is how quite a few animals ended up carving their niche's; considering some of the things we consume (milk, beer, kimchi, bread, mushrooms, peppers, cassava, tobacco and coca leaves etc.) I don't think that example really applies to us at all haha.  

But that's absolutely awful to hear, hopefully they find a way to pull-through all this mess...

[squamptonbc]

Sucks but this thing is causing price increases in Canada, making an already expense hobby even more expensive. Got an email from a couple stores I have ordered from letting customers know of increase in prices as the exchange rate with the US$ has gotten pretty bad. Went from 1.33-1.35 range to $1.44-$1.46 range in a week, which is not good for consumers.