Debate: Will the Coronavirus outbreak affect the reefing community

[ECLS Reefer]

17 hours ago, Tamberav said:

There has been stigma against anyone in scrubs like people walking up and spraying them with Lysol. Does it not occur to them that just because they have on scrubs doesn't mean they have went to work yet? 

 

Abuse the health care...ya good idea... Some guy was spitting on nurses...ya. Then the nurses get sick and they have to stay home sick and more short staff issues or they pass it on and more deaths. Purposely coughing on people when you are oriented should be puniniable by law.

 

I would be asking for 4 point restrains and a mask on that pt and some IM haldol with the biggest needle I can find at that point. A covid + pt purposely coughing on people might as well be a weapon.

I mean, they consider trying to purposefully spread HIV and Hep C assault. Why not the same with Covid 19? But I agree-if you spit on me and I'm at work you're gonna meet the big needle. And a non rebreather taped to your face. 

[ECLS Reefer]

13 minutes ago, ef4life said:

If possible, he never said that’s a hard date to get back to normal,it is a hope he has to start getting back to normal, if it’s too soon (which I think it most likely is) it’s to soon and he will prolong the social distancing, shutdown etc. 

Right. Is it such a bad thing for him to try and hope for people to get back to work? I mean, the economy won't recover while people are stuck in their homes. And the longer we are stuck in our homes, the more likely the economical damage will be insurmountable. Frankly at this point I think he could come out and truthfully say we have the cure for Covid 19 and people would criticize him for it being the wrong color or requiring a needle or accuse him of trying to poison them with government conspiracy vaccines. It's time for people to come together and stop the negative nonsense and be a team. Were people this freaking negative and anti-president when asked to become the Greatest Generation and fight WWII?

[debbeach13]

I think one positive change is our tanks are getting more attention since so many of us are home. 

[Melfy77]

9 minutes ago, debbeach13 said:

I think one positive change is our tanks are getting more attention since so many of us are home. 

Very true!!! Mine was starting to look like crap lol. I still have to work (starting to regret my career choice for the time being lol) but classes at university are done so a little more free time (that is until they  force us to work full time even though some of us are only available part time). Tank is looking good again!!! Got some new frags through the mail!

[A.m.P]

17 hours ago, Dirté Sanchez said:

Right. Is it such a bad thing for him to try and hope for people to get back to work? I mean, the economy won't recover while people are stuck in their homes. And the longer we are stuck in our homes, the more likely the economical damage will be insurmountable. Frankly at this point I think he could come out and truthfully say we have the cure for Covid 19 and people would criticize him for it being the wrong color or requiring a needle or accuse him of trying to poison them with government conspiracy vaccines. It's time for people to come together and stop the negative nonsense and be a team. Were people this freaking negative and anti-president when asked to become the Greatest Generation and fight WWII?

Yes, it is a very bad idea because churches and gun-shops are suing to gain "essential-status", people are killing themselves with fish de-wormer - plus a few other various "cures"- , and folks in the states are already not taking distancing seriously even within extreme-risk zones - the embarrassing amount of bad-faith and dishonest-press being given, ex. encouraging seniors to "be willing to make the sacrifice for their children's economy", also doesn't help the situation. You see it as optimistic or unifying, but craving simple realities and/or solutions because they seem more-pleasant doesn't lessen the consequences or impacts of people following bad-faith optimism or advice. Life is complex, simple solutions are rarely correct in practice, which is why I have a personal pet-peeve when folks incorrectly invoke occam's razor as pertaining to "simple" solutions, when it in fact reads that the solutions with the fewest assumptions are usually correct (which tends to be quite the opposite to being simple sadly).

In terms of of negativity and "teamwork", the only teamwork which counts - outside of people washing their hands and not being jack-alls- is that within the various scientific circles, which are currently being flatly-ignored or downplayed. 
Otherwise, Yes and no, it depends on the actions of leaders and how things were handled, for instance not indefinitely-suspending all EPA enforcement and laws during an international-crisis.
Critics have always existed in free-societies and are usually a good thing, if you're seeing more negative-press it's far more-likely a combination of; more-exposure through media, more things being handled poorly, more delicate or nuanced issues being addressed, and/or more mistakes being made.  
People have very short memories these days, I still remember when blokes were outraged for weeks over tan suits and holding a latte in a dominant hand.

The economy won't recover while people are dying either, it's a bad-faith comparison because it's also not what's important. On top of that creation of a secondary-exponential curve after these first few will cost MORE than simply doing the right thing the first time, (in the same way listening to experts and shutting everything down for two weeks to begin with would have saved countless-lives and economic suffering from dragging shit out needlessly) also worth mentioning the word "insurmountable" doesn't really apply here considering depressions of the past.

It will be amusing to see whether or not antivaxxers abandon their dogma when a vaccine roles around however lol.

[Clown79]

7 minutes ago, Amphrites said:

Yes, it is a very bad idea because churches and gun-shops are suing to gain "essential-status", people are killing themselves with fish de-wormer and a few other various "cures", and folks in the states are already not taking distancing seriously even within extreme-risk zones - the embarrassing amount of bad-faith and dishonest-press being given, ex. encouraging seniors to "be willing to make the sacrifice for their children's economy", also don't help the situation. You see it as optimistic or unifying, but craving simple realities and/or solutions because they seem more-pleasant doesn't lessen the consequences or impacts of people following bad-faith optimism or advice. Life is complex, simple solutions are rarely correct in practice, which is why I have a personal pet-peeve when folks incorrectly invoke occam's razor as pertaining to "simple" solutions, when it in fact reads that the solutions with the fewest assumptions are usually correct (which tends to be quite the opposite to being simple sadly).

In terms of of negativity and "teamwork", the only teamwork which counts - outside of people washing their hands and not being jack-alls- is that within the various scientific circles, which are currently being flatly-ignored or downplayed. 
Otherwise, Yes and no, it depends on the actions of leaders and how things were handled, for instance not indefinitely-suspending all EPA enforcement and laws during an international-crisis.
Critics have always existed in free-societies and are usually a good thing, if you're seeing more negative-press it's far more-likely a combination of, more-exposure through media, and more things being handled poorly, more delicate or nuanced issues being addressed, and/or more mistakes being made.  
People have very short memories these days, I still remember when people were outraged for weeks over tan suits and holding a latte in their dominant hand.

The economy won't recover while people are dying either, it's a bad-faith comparison because it's also not what's important. On top of that creation of a secondary-exponential curve after these first few will cost MORE than simply doing the right thing the first time, also worth mentioning the world "insurmountable" doesn't really apply here considering depressions of the past.

It will be amusing to see whether or not antivaxxers abandon their dogma when a vaccine roles around however lol.

That's how I feel.

 

If we all were lockdown for a month we could get back to normal faster and recover the economy. 

 

The longer we prolong doing the right thing, the more ppl get sick, the more hospitals will be filled(costly and risky to many), more deaths, more money spent in financial aids with more ppl getting sick and a greater chance for a second wave. 

 

The economy is going to be hit regardless if 1 country gets back to normal early on because the economy is based on all countries and trade.

Hard to recover your economy when the rest of the world is at a stand still.

 

 

[A.m.P]

4 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

That's how I feel.

 

If we all were lockdown for a month we could get back to normal faster and recover the economy. 

 

The longer we prolong doing the right thing, the more ppl get sick, the more hospitals will be filled(costly and risky to many), more deaths, more money spent in financial aids with more ppl getting sick and a greater chance for a second wave. 

 

The economy is going to be hit regardless if 1 country gets back to normal early on because the economy is based on all countries and trade.

Hard to recover your economy when the rest of the world is at a stand still.

 

 

Not to mention the simple reality being glanced-over, the cost in human-capital - every life lost and every person who has severe-complications, some will be permanently crippled, robs the economy of a tremendous amount of value, every year, for their entire projected lifespan.

[EthanPhillyCheesesteak]

So how long does everyone think that this quarantine is supposed to last in the US?

[Tamberav]

8 hours ago, debbeach13 said:

I think one positive change is our tanks are getting more attention since so many of us are home. 

Not mine 😞 Mine is having the opposite problem. Too tired from work and stress and tank is taking a hit right now as somehow my salinity is way off. I wonder if I put salt water in my ATO by accident when I trying to top it off at 4am. 

 

I am going to set up an auto feeder for when shit gets worse here. 

[A.m.P]

2 hours ago, EthanPhillyCheesesteak said:

So how long does everyone think that this quarantine is supposed to last in the US?

Depends, it's liable to be a rolling state-by-state and county-by-county situation for at least 8-12 weeks, because of the sheer size of the united states, and the bizarre population-spread, it could realistically still be going-around and causing lockdowns this fall and/or well-into next year. 
It really depends on so, so many factors, there's just no possible way for me to give you a more clear or straight answer, sorry. I've spent my typical inordinate amount of time reading, but only people allot more immersed and intelligent than I am can likely even venture a guess right now.

[ECLS Reefer]

24 minutes ago, Tamberav said:

Not mine 😞 Mine is having the opposite problem. Too tired from work and stress and tank is taking a hit right now as somehow my salinity is way off. I wonder if I put salt water in my ATO by accident when I trying to top it off at 4am. 

 

I am going to set up an auto feeder for when shit gets worse here. 

Hang in there Tam! 

[Melfy77]

19 minutes ago, Amphrites said:

Depends, it's liable to be a rolling state-by-state and county-by-county situation for at least 8-12 weeks, because of the sheer size of the united states, and the bizarre population-spread, it could realistically still be going-around and causing lockdowns this fall and/or well-into next year. 
It really depends on so, so many factors, there's just no possible way for me to give you a more clear or straight answer, sorry. I've spent my typical inordinate amount of time reading, but only people allot more immersed and intelligent than I am can likely even venture a guess right now.

12 weeks will have people go insane. Asylums will be packed😂. Here they are calling nurses who are in maternity leave (we get a year) to go back to work. Some of those babies are 2 weeks old!! Like are you out of your mind??!!! If it became mandatory many would quit (including myself)

[Clown79]

4 hours ago, Amphrites said:

Not to mention the simple reality being glanced-over, the cost in human-capital - every life lost and every person who has severe-complications, some will be permanently crippled, robs the economy of a tremendous amount of value, every year, for their entire projected lifespan.

100% which means more ppl on lifelong financial and medical assistance where available or worse on the streets 

 

Right now it's our lives against the value of money.

[A.m.P]

57 minutes ago, Melfy77 said:

12 weeks will have people go insane. Asylums will be packed😂. Here they are calling nurses who are in maternity leave (we get a year) to go back to work. Some of those babies are 2 weeks old!! Like are you out of your mind??!!! If it became mandatory many would quit (including myself)

Calling nurses and doc's out of retirement as well, seems insanely foolish to me - we need staff, but when Hospitals are advising said individuals to "expect to be infected" it strikes me as quite delusional to attempt recruiting those in the highest risk-pools...

[ShaneMiami]

23 minutes ago, Amphrites said:

Calling nurses and doc's out of retirement as well, seems insanely foolish to me - we need staff, but when Hospitals are advising said individuals to "expect to be infected" it strikes me as quite delusional to attempt recruiting those in the highest risk-pools...

But that’s kinda what we live for. People become a nurse or other healthcare worker to be a part of helping others even if it puts us at risk. We just hope the government and hospital has our back.

I just think it’s a shame that we do not have protection right now. Healthcare workers are afraid they will bring this home to their families, nothing any of us want to do.

Government should set up quarantine hotels for hospital staff.

[naothan]

i like being  in canada seems the right measures are in place 

[mollylope]

Well real reefs will benefit from this, with humanity on pause right now. Meanwhile I just get to go nuts in my apartment in SF. 

[Melfy77]

36 minutes ago, ShaneMiami said:

But that’s kinda what we live for. People become a nurse or other healthcare worker to be a part of helping others even if it puts us at risk. We just hope the government and hospital has our back.

I just think it’s a shame that we do not have protection right now. Healthcare workers are afraid they will bring this home to their families, nothing any of us want to do.

Government should set up quarantine hotels for hospital staff.

Yeah problem is they don't care about nurses. We are gonna run out of Equipment very soon. Who will thake care of people when all nurses and doctors get sick? Putting our lives at risk yes we do it every day, but putting my baby's life at risk?? I don't think so. It's a new virus and they don't know for sure the impacts on pregnancy and newborns.

[ECLS Reefer]

9 minutes ago, Melfy77 said:

Yeah problem is they don't care about nurses. We are gonna run out of Equipment very soon. Who will thake care of people when all nurses and doctors get sick? Putting our lives at risk yes we do it every day, but putting my baby's life at risk?? I don't think so. It's a new virus and they don't know for sure the impacts on pregnancy and newborns.

Give it time. Everyone is more concerned about themselves and their bills at the moment. This hasn't affected as many people as it's probably going to, and when people realize half or more of the medical, nursing, respiratory, EMS, fire and police are all sick or in quarantine, they'll realize more selfless actions are needed like when the US rose up and fixed itself in the 40s. This nation is capable of great things, they just have to be shown it and made to realize the depth of what's being asked of them.

[ShaneMiami]

17 minutes ago, Melfy77 said:

Yeah problem is they don't care about nurses. We are gonna run out of Equipment very soon. Who will thake care of people when all nurses and doctors get sick? Putting our lives at risk yes we do it every day, but putting my baby's life at risk?? I don't think so. It's a new virus and they don't know for sure the impacts on pregnancy and newborns.

Agreed. If I had a baby at home or was pregnant, that’s a different story. I was talking about the retirees coming back to work.

stay safe Melfy77

[ECLS Reefer]

3 minutes ago, ShaneMiami said:

Agreed. If I had a baby at home or was pregnant, that’s a different story. I was talking about the retirees coming back to work.

stay safe Melfy77

I have two young boys and my husband is a sheriff's deputy while I'm a nurse/ECMO specialist. We don't have a choice about possible exposure; we are making sure to strip down in the garage and go straight to the shower when we get home without seeing anyone first. Not much in the way of other choices. But we both chose professions where risk was the bottom line, and chose to do them anyway. I used to do helicopter EMS as a flight nurse, and knew the risks there as well. It's the unspoken, unfortunate side of being a public servant. 

 

Recalling retirees may be an inevitability. After all when you get exposed you have to quarantine. First responders and healthcare professionals are going to get exposed faster than others, and when a huge bulk are out on quarantine, who else will be able to fill their shoes? Only those who have done it at some point. But you know what--they will come back willingly because that's the type of person they were to begin with, those who choose or chose to serve. Even if their risk is doubled, they'll choose to come back and help.

[banasophia]

2 hours ago, ShaneMiami said:

But that’s kinda what we live for. People become a nurse or other healthcare worker to be a part of helping others even if it puts us at risk. We just hope the government and hospital has our back.

I just think it’s a shame that we do not have protection right now. Healthcare workers are afraid they will bring this home to their families, nothing any of us want to do.

Government should set up quarantine hotels for hospital staff.

I disagree with this... that’s like saying teachers and other helping professions shouldn’t get paid much because they are doing work to help others. 
 

Just because someone retired from nursing or medicine doesn’t mean they should be called back to work the front lines in fighting this virus when they are at an extra high risk due to their age... is that how we thank them for their life of helping patients?
 

If someone chooses to do that, that’s their decision... but I wouldn’t assume doctors and nurses chose their profession with the expectation of having to actually give their life for their work. 

[Tamberav]

4 hours ago, Melfy77 said:

12 weeks will have people go insane. Asylums will be packed😂. Here they are calling nurses who are in maternity leave (we get a year) to go back to work. Some of those babies are 2 weeks old!! Like are you out of your mind??!!! If it became mandatory many would quit (including myself)

A year? wow! we get 3 months

[mitten_reef]

21 hours ago, Dirté Sanchez said:

Right. Is it such a bad thing for him to try and hope for people to get back to work? I mean, the economy won't recover while people are stuck in their homes. And the longer we are stuck in our homes, the more likely the economical damage will be insurmountable. Frankly at this point I think he could come out and truthfully say we have the cure for Covid 19 and people would criticize him for it being the wrong color or requiring a needle or accuse him of trying to poison them with government conspiracy vaccines. It's time for people to come together and stop the negative nonsense and be a team. Were people this freaking negative and anti-president when asked to become the Greatest Generation and fight WWII?

Hi 👋, while I agreed in principles with your overall post here. The biggest thing that struck me the wrong way is the first statement.  We can have hope AND sure could all use it these days, but spreading FALSE hope is not something someone in his position should be doing.  It’s sure as shit that business should not and likely could not be reopened before Easter.  Making public statements one after another  on that idea is just dangerous and causing confusion in the public. Virus doesn’t care if he says when it stops and we can get our lives back. It’ll stop when it runs through its course, ie infect enough people to build enough population immunity, etc, or somehow we found a vaccine before that happens. 

[Tamberav]

Well our hospital is now telling us we can come to work sick as long as we don't have serious symptoms. We just have to wear a mask. They said they were going off CDC recommendations. 

 

Probably because so much staff are out from being exposed that it's not possible to have them all QT and still have staff. 

 

It is kind of scary to me... to think of myself working sick with covid. The hours are long and stressful and it certainly messes up my immune system.