Kat's Ol' Max

[jedimasterben]

Lower salinity systems are popular and even benificial for fish only systems, but not in reef systems. Lower salinities are unnatural for most species. A less saline environment has been shown to kill many inverts, perticularly CLAMS, leathers and xenia (CALFO). Fish and quarantine systems benifit from lower salinities because it is conducive to ridding parasites (inverts). Im not sure about oxygen saturation at lower salinities, but lower temperatures definitely increase dissolved O2. I keep my reefs at 74 - 77F

 

 

Hey batgirl, Your clam is showing.

the oxygen concentration has always been the only point i see for a lower salinity. is 1.020 really that bad for clams and such as long as they are provided proper nutrient levels?

 

and i keep my tanks room temperature, 75-78f. i dont run chillers or heaters in any of my systems.

[Nano sapiens]

Tested the water

 

Calcium 490

dKH 8.6

Mag 1500+

 

We talk a lot about low Calcium because it is a real concern, but high calcium can be a problem, too.

 

I had a high calcium situation (490-520) due to a salt batch issue. Within the two weeks that I didn't realize this problem, some of my Montis started to loose color and brown out. My Pavona maldivensis started to bleach. After gradually bringing the CA back down to 420 or so, the corals responded favorably.

 

IF your Calcium is really at 490 or more, then I'd recommend bringing it back down to the 420-440 range.

[ZephNYC]

the oxygen concentration has always been the only point i see for a lower salinity. is 1.020 really that bad for clams and such as long as they are provided proper nutrient levels?

 

and i keep my tanks room temperature, 75-78f. i dont run chillers or heaters in any of my systems.

 

You will throw off your ionic balance by trying to accomplish a high Ca/Mg/Str ration at a low salinity. Clams and leathers are very sensitive to salinity fluctuations, and even more so are your NPS corals. Calfo oncw wrote he did a 10% water change, but forgot to add salt, so he spontaniously dropped his salinity from 1.026 - 1.020 and it nearly killed his leathers and they took 7 months to look good again. Of course you would adjust it slowly, but I just dont see the point. O2 is never a problem unless your tank is to hot, too overpacked, or does not have enough turnover.

[ZephNYC]

We talk a lot about low Calcium because it is a real concern, but high calcium can be a problem, too.

 

I had a high calcium situation (490-520) due to a salt batch issue. Within the two weeks that I didn't realize this problem, some of my Montis started to loose color and brown out. My Pavona maldivensis started to bleach. After gradually bringing the CA back down to 420 or so, the corals responded favorably.

 

IF your Calcium is really at 490 or more, then I'd recommend bringing it back down to the 420-440 range.

 

My clams used to close up when my Ca+ went over 500ppm. So your SPS started browning with very high Ca??? Hear that Kat ?

[Spirofucci]

Wow! Yer tank is looking beautiful!!!!!!

 

Your params look fine to me.....not sure why you are dosing kalk????

[metrokat]

We talk a lot about low Calcium because it is a real concern, but high calcium can be a problem, too.

 

I had a high calcium situation (490-520) due to a salt batch issue. Within the two weeks that I didn't realize this problem, some of my Montis started to loose color and brown out. My Pavona maldivensis started to bleach. After gradually bringing the CA back down to 420 or so, the corals responded favorably.

 

IF your Calcium is really at 490 or more, then I'd recommend bringing it back down to the 420-440 range.

I don't know what to believe anymore, see below where my calcium came back at 133. I am checking it this weekend at ReHypes with his Hannah checker. Then I will address the situation accordingly.

 

My clams used to close up when my Ca+ went over 500ppm. So your SPS started browning with very high Ca??? Hear that Kat ?

Gee Zeph, since you pointed out my calcium is very high, how come, as you also pointed out, my clam is also showing?

 

I received my water test results from aquariumwatertesting.com today and they shocked me.

Calcium 133 (Critical) My tests have always always always shown 490+

Needless to say I am quite unhappy about the calcium results. My calcium is simply not that low. I use red sea coral pro salt, and you have all seen my SPS, some may be browning but I have clearly shown growth progression which would not be possible without calcium. In addition, halimeda is a calcareous macro which is doing well in my tank. I am confident that these guys screwed up my results.

 

Wow! Yer tank is looking beautiful!!!!!!

 

Your params look fine to me.....not sure why you are dosing kalk????

I don't know either. I listen to Zeph too much. When I don't he drinks himself into a stupor and calls me a squamosa.

But look at my test results that came back from AWT, shows my calcium at 133!

[albertthiel]

My clams used to close up when my Ca+ went over 500ppm. So your SPS started browning with very high Ca??? Hear that Kat ?

 

Zeph wasn't Wayne Shan running his large system at close to 500 Calcium ?

 

Albert

[Spirofucci]

There is no way your Ca is 133.

[Nano sapiens]

I don't know what to believe anymore, see below where my calcium came back at 133. I am checking it this weekend at ReHypes with his Hannah checker. Then I will address the situation accordingly.

 

Correct, you need to know exactly where you are first before deciding where you need to go.

 

So, hold off on adding the extra Kalk

Edited July 24, 2012 by Nano sapiens

[1.0reef]

I'm not into scolys or plates.

I am outta here

[albertthiel]

But look at my test results that came back from AWT, shows my calcium at 133!

 

-1 I doubt that the result is accurate ... 133 ??

[metrokat]

There is no way your Ca is 133.

 

Correct, you need to know exactly where you are first before deciding where you need to go.

So, hold off on adding the extra Kalk

 

-1 I doubt that the result is accurate ... 133 ??

 

That is what they sent me. I'm rather shocked and upset also.

[metrokat]

On the phone with AWT where they are giving me an explanation:

 

They say they only test for ionic calcium. Or "free" calcium.

This is the usable form of calcium.

 

Calcium Chloride dosing recommended.

 

He's telling me that salifert kits tests for total calcium. so my reading is right.

[jedimasterben]

That's what our test kits detect, as well, so far as I know.

 

On the phone with AWT where they are giving me an explanation:

 

They say they only test for ionic calcium. Or "free" calcium.

This is the usable form of calcium.

 

Calcium Chloride dosing recommended.

 

He's telling me that salifert kits tests for total calcium. so my reading is right.

He's saying the Salifert result is correct, and their result is correct, and they recommend dosing? What?

[metrokat]

"cut back on the carbonates"

 

That's what our test kits detect, as well, so far as I know.

He's saying the Salifert result is correct, and their result is correct, and they recommend dosing? What?

they suggest dosing calcium chloride and cutting back on calcium carbonate (KALK)

[metrokat]

Advised the following

 

1. cut back on KALK (I only started it yesterday)

KALK adds calcium carbonate which I have enough of

 

2. Add calcium chloride

this is the ionic calcium that is critically low in my tank

 

3. Work on removing silica, some phosphates removers help with this

 

4. Look into a potassium supplement but don't go crazy with it

[ZephNYC]

 

 

Gee Zeph, since you pointed out my calcium is very high, how come, as you also pointed out, my clam is also showing?

 

Hey, every system is its own universe and there are many variables involved. I said over 500ppm mine would close up. Did i mean 502? or did I mean 560 ? If you push your system, which I do not advise you to do, you will eventually find out. Even then it wont match mine as there are other chemical reactions taking place. Hey..does jedi have a clam in that 560ppm calcium swamp of his?

 

 

 

I don't know either. I listen to Zeph too much. When I don't he drinks himself into a stupor and calls me a squamosa.

 

 

Everyone is talking calcium calcium CALCIUM... Kats is too high... its only 130!!! It cant be 130... yada....yada...yada...WHy Kalk?? I dont know Zeph said so. you will overshoot your calcium, dont do a water change!!! Switch salts!!!! use this!! use that. Non mi rompere le palle, non mi scazzare i coglioni !!!!

 

Lets try it this way - I WANT kat to use kalk, and it has nothing to do with her calcium levels, which

have already been permanently scard onto all of our brains. She has had DKH issues, which I believe have been corrected, so now is a good time for her to incorporate KALK for a zillion reasons besides calcium. Im pretty sure those reasons have been covered, so i will end it at that..but if some are un aware, increased skimmer performance, more po4 removal from skimmer, calcium/dkh harmony - for starters.

[jedimasterben]

"cut back on the carbonates"

 

 

they suggest dosing calcium chloride and cutting back on calcium carbonate (KALK)

the calcium part of 2-part. Kalkwasser is calcium hydroxide, not calcium carbonate.

 

Their number just isn't accurate. If a known commercially-available test kit (a couple, actually) is giving you a reading of 490ppm and is the same test kit used by millions of people worldwide to read their current calcium levels (whether it be total or "free"), what makes them think that their way is "better" or "more accurate"? If your calcium level is measured to be 490ppm by two different test kits (and soon to be a colorimeter), dosing 2-part will harm your system.

 

EDIT: and as Zeph is saying, a maintenance dose of kalk is your best bet to keep things stable at where they are.

Edited July 24, 2012 by jedimasterben

[ZephNYC]

"cut back on the carbonates"

 

 

they suggest dosing calcium chloride and cutting back on calcium carbonate (KALK)

 

 

kalk is not calcium carbonate, it is calcium hydroxide

carbonates are your buffer

Edited July 24, 2012 by ZephNYC

[metrokat]

Does anybody here run calcium chloride in a reactor?

 

Their number just isn't accurate. If a known commercially-available test kit (a couple, actually) is giving you a reading of 490ppm and is the same test kit used by millions of people worldwide to read their current calcium levels (whether it be total or "free"), what makes them think that their way is "better" or "more accurate"? If your calcium level is measured to be 490ppm by two different test kits (and soon to be a colorimeter), dosing 2-part will harm your system.

They admit most tanks they get to test are ow in this "free" calcium. They are revising their test print out to explain because everybody calls them. Also: Chad from the company explained that testing for ionic calcium is too expensive so home test kids are not made for it.

 

kalk is not calcium carbonate, it is calcium hydroxide

carbonates are your buffer

got it. so no more buffer then.

 

 

 

Non mi rompere le palle, non mi scazzare i coglioni !!!!

Con il tempo ho fatto io con te non può avere le palle a sinistra vecchio

[metrokat]

Hows your midas doing? In my tank he has been the only fish no one ever screwed with from the get go, Love that fish

He's a pig! Loves food. Has been very active and swimming about lately. I think because the clownfish has been leaving him alone. He's a cutie.

 

I am outta here

oh stop it, I have plenty of things to hold your attention. In the tank.

[1.0reef]

Oh yeah, I got a new sharknose goby!

Take that kitty kat

[albertthiel]

Advised the following

 

1. cut back on KALK (I only started it yesterday)

KALK adds calcium carbonate which I have enough of

 

2. Add calcium chloride

this is the ionic calcium that is critically low in my tank

 

3. Work on removing silica, some phosphates removers help with this

 

4. Look into a potassium supplement but don't go crazy with it

 

Reading all the posts I think it is getting confusing to you probably.

 

So what are you going to do ...

 

If your corals are doing OK as you said, and if you measure a high calcium content, then what are you going to go by Kat ...

 

Are they actually saying that you should NOT add KW ?

 

That seems to go against what so many of us do to maintain the calcium level ....

 

Albert

[Nano sapiens]

Advised the following

 

1. cut back on KALK (I only started it yesterday)

KALK adds calcium carbonate which I have enough of

 

2. Add calcium chloride

this is the ionic calcium that is critically low in my tank

 

3. Work on removing silica, some phosphates removers help with this

 

4. Look into a potassium supplement but don't go crazy with it

 

 

 

 

1. If you find that calcium is 490 (or higher) as you suspect, you can just stop dosing until the level drops back down to 420-440. Just keep an eye on your alkalinity to make sure it doesn't drop too far (should be approx. 3.2 meq/l when calcium is around 420 ppm). If alkalinity falls low, just add an appropriate product to raise it. Once calcium and alkalinity are within the proper ranges, then you can use either Kalk (my preference) or a 'Two Part' since both provide calcium and alkalinity in a balance proportion as they are used by organisms in calcification. Keep the alkalinity boost product handy, though, since alkalinity often tends to drop just a bit faster than calcium levels, so you may need to adjust once in a while. I've never had pH trouble, but certainly can't hurt to check as you make adjustments.

 

If you decide to dose Calcium chloride for any length of time, be aware that you run the rise of eventually disrupting the water's chlorine/sulphur ratio. Also, don't add too much too quickly or you can decrease pH and alkalinity.

 

3. If you are not having unusually bad outbreaks of dino, I wouldn't worry much about the silica level at this point. Some silica is natural and good for the tank's food webs.

Edited July 24, 2012 by Nano sapiens

[jedimasterben]

They admit most tanks they get to test are ow in this "free" calcium. They are revising their test print out to explain because everybody calls them. Also: Chad from the company explained that testing for ionic calcium is too expensive so home test kids are not made for it.

 

 

got it. so no more buffer then.

if it is so expensive that no one tests for it, then why do they only report on it? if your tank was truly low on calcium, your stony corals could not grow, but they are. i would not bother with them and rely on your test kits. unless there is a way to dose and only raise free calcium (there is not, excess free calcium will precipitate with carbonate and cause more issues), just use your normal kit.

 

and buffer is what raises alkalinity. stop dosing buffer and only calcium and you will lose you alkalinity fast.

 

oh stop it, I have plenty of things to hold your attention. In the tank.

i see what you did there.