Peroxide saves my Tank! With pics to Prove It!

[icy.bing]

maybe it is not directly the result of peroxide and it may not happen if i didn't do a full tank clean up, but it is related =p

[brandon429]

Thats just an API test kit misread they are terrible test kits.

 

 

 

 

We have tanks grossly overdosing 35% there is no way to kill established filter bacteria with 3%. curious to see pictures of the sanbed and rock structure again though, we'd have to liberate a heckuva detritus cloud to get raw ammonia.

 

All forms of ammonia questions can be answered with a full tank shot, post us an update we'll uncover some juicy details. Im keenly interested to dissect the issue however, chem boys in the forums at RC would jump on this issue like raw steak

 

we have been looking for supported documentation of recycling when using peroxide, if this is the first case out of thousands posted there will be details that back it up. first to check off the list, is the referencing test kit API

 

google "API reef test kits always read .25" see what you think

 

one of a bazillion:

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/305382-fackin-api/

[icy.bing]

^LOL brandon... How did you know... HOW DID YOU KNOW ITS API?? lol.. yes it is API... i will try another test kit and see

[brandon429]

Whew I'm just wiping the brow it wasnt salifert or I'd be like wut

 

 

[andi.rahl]

Whew I'm just wiping the brow it wasnt salifert or I'd be like wut

this thread isn't the first that I've read that it always reads .25.

[th64]

We do H2O2 injections all the time to kill algae in FW, now I know you can do this aswell on SW!

wonder if anyone tried injecting some Aiptasia with H2O2

I tried this a few weeks back before I bough Aipstasia X. I took a sharp needle and injected I dont remember how much but a decent amount into it and it seemed to shrink for a while and close up but it was still there just a lil smaller. Maybe multiple treatments might have done the trick but Aipstasia X took care of it in 1 go.

 

Now for bubble algae I have on one of my rocks I am going to just take it out and pour some peroxide on it and I will post before after pics

[jedimasterben]

I tried this a few weeks back before I bough Aipstasia X. I took a sharp needle and injected I dont remember how much but a decent amount into it and it seemed to shrink for a while and close up but it was still there just a lil smaller. Maybe multiple treatments might have done the trick but Aipstasia X took care of it in 1 go.

 

Now for bubble algae I have on one of my rocks I am going to just take it out and pour some peroxide on it and I will post before after pics

Good luck with the bubble algae. I lost that battle.

[Trogdor447]

So I have started dosing my tank also spot treating rocks.. So far i treated 1 rock to see how it would do.. later that night a few strands were white.. woke up in the am.. the majority of the algae was white.. and then boom next day snails were all over it. My frag rack got an EXTRA long soak in the peroxide as well. This was direct treatment.

Tank has been getting peroxide each day about 1.5ml / 10g so far for the last week and nothing has 'changed' overall. All of my corals look great acans, zoas, paly, pink birdsnest, candy cane, frogspawn, and finge rleather etc.


Background:
I have been fighting the battle for over a year now... Initially it was primarily GHA that I couldnt get under control. Through regular tank maintenance, protein skimmer, and manual removal. Added the GFO reactor and scrubbed rocks with a toothbrush.. that algae has no longer affected my tank. In its place came longer nastier stuff that grows tall - I have a good feeling that this is bryopsis... Gave some time with monthly replacement on gfo and carbon.. nothing did a thing to this crap.

I have been super reluctant to treat the entire tank, but for the sake of the hobby and everyone on the forums i'm giving it a go. I have an emergency water bucket on standby and work at home. So I CAN change a lot of water in a hurry. I dont think many others have the luxury of 24/7 monitoring on the tank.

 

Here is a photo of my clown mocking me....

 

 

Here is the start of my battle with peroxide: The glass is not very clean as i was just doing some removal etc etc.. but its a goo dindicator - I'll ahve to get a pic when all the pretty lights are on

[brandon429]

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/329681-possible-dinoflagellates-and-calothrix/

 

A dinoflagellates treatment this week from okie

[farkwar]

When you're adding H2O2 to a tank isnt that the same as running Ozone, cheaply. I wonder what your ORP readings are after dosing. That extra Oxygen molecule is going to end up being the free radical that is doing the actual oxidizing, isnt it? Pretty much what ozone does.

 

I remember my Micro prof stating that 3% was only effective for killing obligate and facultative aerobic bacteria.

 

We never tested that in class though. His statement was pretty much slanted because the context was of clostridium difficile as an exception. He definately was not thinking of nitrifying bacteria in aquaria during the discussion. If nitrobacter/nitrosomas bacteria have an anaerobic survival system(which i assume at this point they do) it may make them relatively immune to low concentrations of H2O2, or at least tolerant.

 

Interesting thread

[farkwar]

[markalot]

This thread is frustrating.

 

Brandon, you made post #15 in this thread, can't you edit it to add all the information in one place?

 

I am going to try spot treatment with water in my 40. Caulerpa is growing at over an inch a day now, and finally I am scared of this damn algae. I suspect phosphate is leaching from some of my older rocks but it's a complete tear down at this point unless I can kill this bastard. It appears to be Caulerpa prolifera, a medium serrated leaf. It's been in the tank since day 1 but was slow growing until a month ago. Apparently it rooted around the base of most of my rocks without me noticing and now is taking over.

 

I don't have the time or the patience to drain most of the 40 gallons to treat, so I'm looking for other options.

 

Anyway, trying to search this thread for useful experiences has been an exercise in frustration. I don't think I have any sensitive species in this tank.

[brandon429]

dude!! give us pics we feed on it. macros are highly sensitive, I cleaned some dang bad infestations of it on one of my many p threads on 3reef for sure.

 

We gotta do an underwater concentration method to fix ya or at least stall it a bit. youre gonna laugh but check this out

 

locate a bad rock of it somewhere in the tank

 

turn off all pumps

 

actually take a big square of saran wrap and stick it down in there, wrap that rock. pin the stuff into place, stack rocks on the edges, clothes pin them, whatev but this is your death tarp

 

it works@! we do it on the reefcentral thread all the time Im working on one right now for cotton candy algae treated in a large tank.

 

so while this rock is wrapped, not perfectly but as best you can, use a diabetics syringe to inject your p into the tarp and it will burn the crap out of the target underneath and then find its way out of the tarp and into the tank to dissipate. since you have no sens species this pass through wont matter.

 

if this is a big hassle, brainstorm any kind of capping method that will extend your injection just a little better than simply dumping it into the tank, you'd be surprised how well this minor contact extension works. I get scared on dino posts and posts about cyano using peroxide, but macros I consider to be highly treatable with the stuff. tangs will eat it too but you know I just like this method cuz I painted myself into a corner with it lol

 

pics before and after or Im devastated, plus I w link them to the rc thread too.

 

 

Im not sure how to edit all the info in one place this bad boy keeps growing like a weed ha

[markalot]

FTS

 

 

Problem area which is expansing at an alarming rate.

 

[brandon429]

Ok that's nice. I will be darn careful with that bad boy we should not rush. Agreed the inverts and coral are tougher ones, but that coloration and frags you have in there that would run upwards of $90 apiece where I live requires deliberation.

 

If it was my tank I'd stop at almost no length to get a tang, scopas ideally imo

 

Would rent him and then sell him off to someone when done they are just so dedicated for this stuff

 

 

If not that, I would do a drain and treat, using the same water if you must. Who cares if its a weekends work thats the price of this invader. Draining runs where feasible are so powerful, would probably use mister application when drained 75%

 

That's your best chance of a one off kill for the largest mass and its spot application away from the prized coral.

 

But there is a tang that could do this job so precisely, even though its not peroxide it must be mentioned as the goal in any case is a system cure I don't care how you get there

 

 

But these peroxide threads have the stat outliers where a simple treating cleans the whole dang tank and they are jumping with joy

 

You can test for that kind of susceptibility with no big risky commitment to dosing by turning off pumps and using either a small patch tarp test or any other concentrator. Mount that concentrator face down on a spot wedged in between some corals on a small test area. Just one patch

 

Hit the concentrator with a few mls that wont mean squat when bled off in a tank that size. If your macro will transmit the melting response all down the interconnections you could have something. Depending on that response, and the response of the corals we proceed

 

Invasive macro is highly susceptible to peroxide you have a great chance with any of these methods and kept low I see no risk to your tank. I sure would take it slow, lets see what kind of run your macro really responds to first

[brandon429]

Mark

 

That is a significant challenge I'm glad you would post that here. Dude I rate that, as you can tell, as a highly virulent grower that within one month could dominate

 

You caught it kinda fast, right at the point you can tell its got genetic steroids.

 

 

Not that it would look terrible, but thats a rather permanent look to ever have established in a tank like that

 

I wouldnt allow any, those corals are meant to grow into neon fluorescent show pieces no distractions or encroaches. #1 rent a tang #2 peroxide experiments would be my exact course of measure.

 

That would have been a scary tank to work on early in either peroxide thread for sure. Test patch experimenting on it, pumps off is the ticket imo

[markalot]

Mark

 

That is a significant challenge I'm glad you would post that here. Dude I rate that, as you can tell, as a highly virulent grower that within one month could dominate

 

You caught it kinda fast, right at the point you can tell its got genetic steroids.

 

 

Not that it would look terrible, but thats a rather permanent look to ever have established in a tank like that

 

I wouldnt allow any, those corals are meant to grow into neon fluorescent show pieces no distractions or encroaches. #1 rent a tang #2 peroxide experiments would be my exact course of measure.

 

That would have been a scary tank to work on early in either peroxide thread for sure. Test patch experimenting on it, pumps off is the ticket imo

 

Yea, I'm a bit hesitant, but I buy all my corals on the cheap, so even though they look good that's only about $90 worth of corals. That damn pink birdsnest is a regrowth from a complete kill 9 months ago. I had broken off a piece with my hand without realizing it and it survived a crash laying in the sand.

 

The tank is too crowded for a tang, it would introduce a ton of stress and probably ich.

 

I just did a turkey baster treatment in my 46 which is mostly lps with a few sps. Tank was pissed all evening but this morning all looks fine and no coloration loss. It's a test run for this tank. Way back when I had my 20 I treated a rock out of the tank but did not rinse well enough and ended up killing a cleaner shrimp and all the algae in the tank, including my chaeto. So I know the power of peroxide, and the resilience of most corals, but I'm still hesitant. This damn caulerpa is some of the most resistant algae I've witnessed.

 

Question. Has anyone with berghia nudibranches ever used peroxide? Are they sensitive to it? These are the critters that eat aptasia.

[brandon429]

Excellent idea

 

I have no data on nudis that will be new for us

[markalot]

My back hurts, but here's how it went down with one post treatment pic. If this goes like before dieoff shoudl start later today or tomorrow.

 

I needed to send a Hawkfish back to the LFS, the one in my avatar, so I could add those Berghia nudibranches and I was having aggression issues between the hawk and the blenny. So I took a half day off and removed 8 gallons of water in two buckets, removed the most infested rocks, caught the hawk, and made a quick trip to the LFS.

 

My indicator species for how much peroxide made it back into the main tank was a small frag of neon trumpets. In my experience all trumpets hate peroxide and will discolor for a week if exposed to too much. I treated the rocks with direct 3% peroxide poured on and around the algae. Some got on my SPS, I was not that careful. I double rinsed in my two buckets and returnes the rocks to the tank. Once I was done treating every rock with algae I basically had a carefully constructed stack of rocks with corals back in the 40. I re-scaped, removing some base rocks that I suspect were leaching phosphate, and then did a 50% water change (the beauty of the 32 gallon Brute cans!).

 

Indicator species showed no discoloration, even though one of the rocks was bubbling prior to the water change. SPS species began to recover an hour after I was done and look fairly normal this morning. I don't see any color loss or other damage, other than a few broken branches on my Montipora digitata 'Forest Fire'. Speaking of which, one of the smaller branches sat unoticed in a bucket of mostly peroxide for 2 hours ... 2 HOURS ... and this morning it's showing some polyp extension. I dropped it back into the tank as soon as I found it. I'll report on how it's doing in a few days.

 

Post treatment FTS and closeup of the main treatment area. These were taken 2 hours after the final water change.

 

 

 

Main cleanup crew consists of numerous blue and red legged hermits plus a large thin stripe and a big turbo, moved from my 46. The bigger white coral at the top left is a stylophora suffering from shipment damage. While it was out fo the tank I painted the dead areas with super glue to aid in recovery of lost tissue.

[seabass]

My question (which I suspect has been asked and answered somewhere in these 47 pages of posts) is if the algae is dying off, doesn't that release a bunch of phosphate back into the water?

[markalot]

My question (which I suspect has been asked and answered somewhere in these 47 pages of posts) is if the algae is dying off, doesn't that release a bunch of phosphate back into the water?

 

I assume it does. Certainly you need to do more water changes and make sure to freshen any phosphate removing media after treatment. Even if the cleanup crew eats most of the algae you still have an increased nutrient load, much like over feeding.

[markalot]

I wanted to include some post treatment pics of my 46 here as well.

 

I took 1 gallon of new saltwater and added a few caps of peroxide. Unfortunately that's the limit of my accuracy in this test. It's not straight peroxide anyway. I used a turkey baster to slowly blow peroxide into the feather algae. I have not done a water change since treatment.

 

My indicator species are trumpets and all of them are showing significant discoloration, seen in the pics below. This is a full day after treatment and no apparent death yet but immediately after treatment this Cualerpa is suddenly attractive to my thin striped hermit who completely cleaned a rock on the other side of the tank (rightmost Acan in FTS) and is now buried himself deep in the caulerpa behind the Duncans.

 

FTS

 

 

closeup of the right side

 

[brandon429]

My question (which I suspect has been asked and answered somewhere in these 47 pages of posts) is if the algae is dying off, doesn't that release a bunch of phosphate back into the water?

 

Totally fair question. My response has always been that a steak has more phosphate in it than the parsley really though, its just my opinion that a days feeding or a weeks feeding is already so much more waste comparatively that its of no use to concern about that which is certainly released by the dying salad on this guys rocks lol

 

there is no harm in removing the dying algae before release if one can. I have always just left mine in the tank to degrade since I cant reach it half the time to remove or I would have.

 

These pics are so dang nice. Mark can I download them, re upload them neatly into a reefcentral update and credit you for it all? I will also caption your summary above. getting those big pics in the rc thread vs just a thread link would be really nice. The information about collateral coral interaction is priceless, I still consider those showpieces we are too landlocked down here in Tx panhandle to get at anything that nice.

[markalot]

Sure, no problem copying the pics.

[metrokat]

FTS

 

 

Problem area which is expansing at an alarming rate.

 

 

Mark. That is caulerpa peltata. The rate at which you say it is growing is indicative of high nutrients. And by contrast I know your corals have been looking color due to starvation so it might be that rocks are leeching phosphates. You may not get a phosphate reading since it is being absorbed.

 

It might be too much work but you would have yo pull out that caulerpa by hand. The hold fasts are easy but they will leave some bits behind. If you can remove your rocks to do this then even better to just put them straight into peroxide for at least 10 minutes.

 

If removing rocks is not an option, remove the macro as much as you can by hand. Then epoxy over the rocks with putty. It won't form a tight bond but it will block the light. Inject peroxide. This should be the end of it. An alternative is to move all your corals to your other tank and nuke this one with peroxide and lights out. let it re boot. I know you don't want to drain your tank, but you may have to.