Peroxide saves my Tank! With pics to Prove It!

[brandon429]

Ok thanks! I'll wait about a few days to catch one last update pic where its wiped out. I think we'll have to be really fast acting on any leftover strands to prevent regrowth but I expect a total kill on whatever you dry treated for dang sure. sometimes these macros will transmit the death or cell lysing signals down their stolons or holdfasts (whatever the correct botannical term is lol) and kill other sections not even treated, cross fingers. thanks for such great pics and testimony man.

 

 

 

the real succes test is about a month from now to see if there is any grow back, kick us up a reminder if we let it slip and forget Mark.

[metrokat]

Edit. I also see another caulerpa species.

[markalot]

Edit. I also see another caulerpa species.

 

Yea, there's two. (woops, if your ID is correct that makes 3 ) The serrated blade species and grape, I believe. The stem on the grape is much thicker. These have been in the tank since day one, so no shock where they came from. I need to stop starving the corals AND control nutrients. I just went too far in one direction IMO. Always a balancing game.

 

Some old base rock, which has now been removed, I had over a year ago when I started with TAP water. The rock is no good for a reef, I know that now, so it should have been removed months ago.

 

All of these rocks can be dipped again. I have arranged in such a way that all are stable and fairly easy to remove.

[metrokat]

Yea, there's two. The serrated blade species and grape, I believe. The stem on the grape is much thicker. These have been in the tank since day one, so no shock where they came from. I need to stop starving the corals AND control nutrients. I just went too far in one direction IMO. Always a balancing game.

 

All of these rocks can be dipped again. I have arranged in such a way that all are stable and fairly easy to remove.

It is peltata. Grape is different.

[markalot]

It is peltata. Grape is different.

 

Well grape is in there, I looked up the one you mentioned and you are correct, it's in there too, along with the serrated blade species. So three invasive varieties of Caulerpa!

[metrokat]

Well grape is in there, I looked up the one you mentioned and you are correct, it's in there too, along with the serrated blade species. So three invasive varieties of Caulerpa!

Lucky you.

[farkwar]

Anyone else remember the days when caulerpa growing in the reef tank was desired.

 

 

Anyway, these are one of the best reef tools out there.

12 inch stainless forceps

 

You should be able to get a pair on ebay for a couple bucks.

[markalot]

Yep, I need me some.

 

I think it's a combination of this Caulerpa plus a nutrient spike. I've never seen it grow that fast and I don't have time to spend 30 minutes a day pulling algae that just grew 3 inches in a day.

 

I was not in the hobby back in the day. Missed all the excitement, apparently.

[farkwar]

Yup. I still have all my old Albert Thiel and Martin Moe books in the garage.

 

I should pull them out and find out how anachronistic they really are these days.

[brandon429]

Mark can you do one close up of that treated area like the first shot where y'all were discussing the multiple types of macro

[markalot]

Here's a photo, this is 24 hours after treatment. You can see 2 types here. I may be wrong about Grape Caulerpa, I have not been able to find any.

 

 

The scarlet hermits have started picking at the growth stems of some of the Caulerpa, not really eating it whole but clawing it and picking parts out. Odd.

My indicator species are showing just a tad bit of discoloration. See the brown showing in the grooves? These guys are extremely sensitive to any amount of peroxide, yet I've never lost any.

 

[markalot]

The small pink birdsnest browned quickly. Still looks healthy enough, good polyp extension and green polyps at the tips, but the pink is gone.

 

[brandon429]

Such good documentation thanks!

[markalot]

Another update. 72 hours since the rocks in the 40 were removed, treated, rinsed and replaced. Getting hard to find the algae, but those aptasia sure show up well.

 

 

 

 

 

The brighter the light the quicker the caulerpa is fading.

 

FTS.

 

 

 

The colors are different, some worse and believe it or not some better than before treatment. Since very little peroxide got into the tank I think some of the color changes are due to nutrient control remedies I've been taking at the same time. The green slimer's skin has browned a bit but the green polyps really make it stand out. I swear all the zoas have twice the color they used too. The all closed up when I put the rocks back in so obviously some peroxide made it into the tank.

 

Now for the 46. It's been 96 hours since in tank treatment and the algae does not seem to be dying. Areas hit the most with my turkey baster treatment did become palatable to the thin striped hermit and he's cleared out a few areas, but nothing good enough to call it a success.

 

The bowfront glass prevents sharp pictures.

 

Here's a patch of algae from yesterday (first pic) and then today.

 

 

 

You can see where he's cleared a path behind the Duncans ... that area was as thick as both remaining sides. He's working in the sandbed now but is not removing all of the algae.

 

The front of this Acan was covered with Caulerpa and now you can see a clear spot but only that one spot.

 

 

Here I tried to carefully apply peroxide to the side of this rock. Very little if any effect.

 

 

Now for the big negative issues when adding a significant amount of peroxide to the tank.

 

This is a piece of the same green monti cap that's in the 40. Until treatment this was the same color, a nice green with blue polyps. It's now faded to a sickly brown green with grey polyps.

 

46

 

40

 

This next one is the ORA supernatural. The back half of this coral looks bleached now, and the entire coral is a lighter brown. It's done this before and will most likely recover in a few weeks.

 

 

As a result of the above experience I will never dose peroxide directly to the tank again. Even with rock removal and double rinsing enough peroxide made it back into my 40 to bother a few corals.

 

Finally, that poor piece of Forest Fire digitata that fell in my peroxide bucket and stayed for 2 hours.

 

 

Still alive, but perhaps not for long. Significant polyp loss and I can't tell if the skin has died or just bleached badly. I'll continue to update the progress and let you know if it lives or dies.

[brandon429]

we can see how corals recolor in the coming weeks as yet another update. Do kick this back up as you see changes this is a heck of an sps tank documentation, primarily as it features a range of high end animals and the treatment technique involved in tank exposure.

 

Some people would hate the fact your corals were stressed at all and decry the treatment but my counter is this: price of delay. not wanting to introduce ich from a tang makes sense and that sets the boundaries we had to work in. the option to keep experimenting with nonchemical manual removal was lost as the macro spread voraciously. the forceps I could see on day #1. overgrowth was coming and I knew of no other option save for the fish or a lucky urchin find. the only deliberate action I knew of was this one. areas of missed treatment usually require more attention, cleaning this much invasive biomass is rarely a one off event.

 

the threads build because peroxide does lend a powerful element of initial control over an invasion in the vast majority of cases.

 

 

 

 

 

we hardly ever ask on these peroxide threads what other treatments are being ran on the tank simultaneously but thats chemically very important to know. glad you mentioned it.

 

when I use peroxide on my own mixed reef, its the only treatment being ran outside the scope of normal tank care. need to remember to gather those details in the predictive phase of the assessment. Any nutrient stripping or alk imbalances and changes ran alongside peroxide factor into the outcome in an uncertain manner. the books make RTN seem like a beast willing to pounce as quick as it can...it almost sounds like reacclimation to light would be prudent for peroxide stressed sps. it still seems to me that any localized stress for your sps in this case will have a better outcome than total algal encroachment

 

 

I was going to give it a few more days to catch a pic of the algae gone in certain spots. and if you post regrowth pics those can be updated on rc as well so that other macro problem tanks can have a solid prediction on timeframes.

[markalot]

I'm happy with the results and not really interested in what other people think, unless they agree with me. Seriously though, I've only been in the reef hobby for a year and 6 months but in that time I've learned to recognize that the majority of what you here is complete unproven BS. It's a shame, but that's just the way it is. I think most people mean well, but there's just too many variables for any single piece fo advice to be accurate ... including mine.

 

 

Anyway, I spot treated the 46 last night. Same technique ... filled two 5 gallon buckets about 3/4 full with old tank water, applied peroxide to infected rocks, double rinsed, and returned. I spent more time rinsing in both buckets this time and the zoas in the tank displayed much less of a reaction than they did when I treated the 40. Some did not fully close, which tells me I was successful at keeping most of the peroxide out of the tank.

 

The Caulerpa in the 46 grows incredibly fast but is wimpy ... very easy to pull off ... it's more like a moss than an algae. I treated what I could remove and scrubbed the rock I could not (well, did not want) with a brush.

 

A quick rundown of corals with notable reactions or non reactions in both tanks. Keep in mind this is reaction in MY tanks with my volume of water and whatever conditions I had at the time.

 

Lepestrea: Looks healthy within an hour of treatment

Cyphastrea: Had to dip, lost color and still stressed, but no death and some polyp extension. Sensitive.

Duncans: Very little if any adverse reaction

Caulastrea (Trumpet, Candy Cane): Extreme discoloration after treatment but always survives.

Pink and Blue Anthelia: Sensitive, but not death

Goniopora: Less extension after in tank treatment but seems to be improving, sensitive but not overly so

Alveopora: Reduced polyp extension but not overly sensitive

Montipora: depends on variety, some more senentive than others

Acropora: also depends on variety, Acropora milliepora does show notable skin browning

Stylophora: very little if any reaction

Pocillopora: very little if any reaction

Seriatopora (birdsnest): depends on variety. Pink shows browning, others show little if any reaction other than closing polyps

Acanthastrea lordhowensis: little if any reaction

Favia (variety unknown): Seems sensitive to direct dipping. browning of skin, reduced sweeper extension

Blastomussa merletti: little to no reaction

Euphyllia (frogspawn, hammer, torch): little to no reaction

Ricordia florida: some size reduction but little observed long term reaction

Various mushrooms: Some show more immediate reaction than others but little long term reaction

 

 

Pics of the 40, this would be 96 hours after treatment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pics of the 46, 2 hours after spot treatment and double rinse. This is a bowfront tank so most of the pics are distorted.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The one on the right was dipped. The left frag was not dipped but still showing stress from the previous in tank treatment.

 

 

Hitchhiker Favia or Favites, Pink, and Blue Anthelia on this rock. Another species of Caulerpa growing on this one, probably came over from the 40.

 

 

Acans look better rather than worse.

 

 

This is the support rock i scrubbed rather than remove.

 

 

Thin striped hermit already working on the Caulerpa. He had 3 weeks to eat this prior to treatment and did not touch it. For whatever reason this variety of Caulerpa becomes palatable almost immediately after treatment.

 

 

 

 

 

[brandon429]

I'm happy with the results and not really interested in what other people think, unless they agree with me. Seriously though, I've only been in the reef hobby for a year and 6 months but in that time I've learned to recognize that the majority of what you here is complete unproven BS. It's a shame, but that's just the way it is. I think most people mean well, but there's just too many variables for any single piece fo advice to be accurate ... including mine.

 

Where is the bs? I think I missed your meaning

Dang good documentation and coral specifc info for sure. Ill work on xferring some pics soon

[markalot]

BS is a little strong, but basically much of the information one hears is not something that can be repeated since conditions can not be duplicated. In other words, there are 100 things going on (at least) in any tank, with the reefer knowingly doing 10 of these things. The reefer is excited that #10 worked so well and tells everyone how #10 is THE way to do things, not understanding that #10 only works when you also do #3 and #7 and unknown #42.

 

Really, that's what makes the hobby so darn interesting.

 

And like I said, the same limitation applies to anything I say, so I try and make sure people know it's just an opinion, not a fact. It is a fact my thin striped hermit is eating this caulerpa algae soon after a peroxide treatment. The reason is unknown, and there is at least a small chance that peroxide has nothing to do with it. For all I know just removing it from the tank, blowing on it, and replacing it would make the algae palatable. I didn't try that experiment.

[seabass]

This thread is frustrating.

It is kind of hard to find what you are looking for.

 

Mark, how exactly did you perform your treatments? Outside the tank, pouring straight 3% peroxide onto the algae? Or was it a solution of peroxide and saltwater? Or was it a dip of peroxide solution? How long did you dip it for? What was the ratio of peroxide to saltwater? How long did you let it sit out in the air to oxidize before you rinsed it off with fresh saltwater? Did you expose any of the coral flesh to the peroxide?

[brandon429]

I would also counter that we duplicate results at an astounding rate. For example, your tank cleaning Mark wasn't nonstandard if we go back and re read the predictions, and that was without calling into question other treatments. Those other treatments, while a factor, aren't a big deal as we have been doing these in tank and external runs for what two years now>?

 

What we use to id and clean a tank is all that we have needed...but yes concurrent treatment info should be elicited and added to the streamlining process. The best part is, your tank is nearly free of that invader and the side effects were less than what the actual invader will cause if left unchecked. I rank personally the benefits of peroxide at 90% and the risks/bad outcomes/stressors as 10%. comparatively, tank loss has occured from using kalk, or various chemical treatments like chemi clean, its just these are standards of fare while the bar for perfect peroxide outcomes has to be set much higher since its a rather unvetted approach (more and more that can't be said)

I figure as long as that ratio remains somewhat true these threads will grow. making predictions before treatments is the most fun part.

 

Where these treatments are moving beyond anecdote is the fact that just a few years ago the top aquarium chemists in the world said peroxide use in tank would be disastrous, its not. hence the repeatability of what we feature here. FIne tuning this is hard because we cant use the scientific full variable control method on each tank, but the fact is, we dont need it. Let someone who likes to use that try and discern why what we do works after a couple years fact...Im down to read it. no matter if their findings are good or bad for us, what we post here and at rc will continue Im sure.

 

Even if some of it seems artsy or haphazard, it appears that was the fastest cure for your prob and the results we got were not far off base compared to others, even those with wildly differing tank variables.

[markalot]

It is kind of hard to find what you are looking for.

 

Mark, how exactly did you perform your treatments? Outside the tank, pouring straight 3% peroxide onto the algae? Or was it a solution of peroxide and saltwater? Or was it a dip a peroxide solution? How long did you dip it for? What was the ratio of peroxide to saltwater? How long did you let it sit out in the air to oxidize before you rinsed it off with fresh saltwater? Did you expose any of the coral flesh to the peroxide?

 

Good question, i forgot to mention that.

 

I take the rock out and pour straight 3% peroxide on areas with algae over a bucket. Eventually the bucket is full enough I can place the rocks in the bucket and either swish around or use a turkey baster to pick up and re-apply. I tried to do the larger rocks first and then the smaller rocks or frags via dipping, sometimes comcpletely submerged in peroxide.

 

I woudl estimate 15 seconds of application and another 30 seconds waiting before rinsing off in two buckets. First bucket I dip in and out a few times and swish around for 20 seconds or so, then same with second bucket, then back in tank.

 

All estimates and not scientific at all.

[markalot]

I would also counter that we duplicate results at an astounding rate.

 

Certainly, which is why I did it, because I was pretty convinced it would not be a disaster unless I was completely careless. I was prepared for complete loss of color in my 40, and thankfully that did not happen. Mr Microscope has a peroxide accident that discolored his corals, but AFAIK he did not lose any.

[markalot]

Mr. Microscope was online so I asked in his thread. Quoting here:

 

 

Yes, H2O2 had a negative impact on my SPS. LPS, and softies recovered overnight. I didn't lose anything, but the acros all browned out or bleached a little. It took a good two months for them to color back up again.

[Mr. Microscope]

Certainly, which is why I did it, because I was pretty convinced it would not be a disaster unless I was completely careless. I was prepared for complete loss of color in my 40, and thankfully that did not happen. Mr Microscope has a peroxide accident that discolored his corals, but AFAIK he did not lose any.

yup..birdsnests and montis were unaffected, but all acros browned out and took at least two months to color back up again. My LPS and softies looked fine by the second or third day. I think two types of zoas freaked out for a couple weeks, but recovered. Other zoas were unaffected.

[markalot]

yup..birdsnests and montis were unaffected, but all acros browned out and took at least two months to color back up again. My LPS and softies looked fine by the second or third day. I think two types of zoas freaked out for a couple weeks, but recovered. Other zoas were unaffected.

 

For me a birdsnest and monti showed some stress. It might depend on nutrients in the system, perhaps? I do not run ULNS, hence the algae issues.