Peroxide saves my Tank! With pics to Prove It!

[Mxx]

I suffered from 2 types of Bryopsis from the very start of setting my 34 gallon tank up as it came in on the live rock I bought. I spend loads buying more and more Tech M, and that didn't do a thing. As I hadn't stocked my tank yet, I tried a whole tank dose, by adding a gallon of 35% Hydrogen Peroxide. The Bryopsis suffered a bit, but it didn't wipe it out. So I tried a stronger dose then, and added TWO GALLONS of 35% Hydrogen Peroxide, effectively bringing my entire tank's water to a Hydrogen Peroxide strength of over 2%. That wiped it out, and wiped everything else out including coralline, a snail, bacteria. I cleaned and disinfected all my tools and equipment as well, and figured I was finally rid of it.

I also was adamant about trying to prevent any algae from going into my tank, by dipping any frags in 2% H2O2 for a few minutes, cutting the frags off the rocks they came in on, etc. That didn't work, and before long I still had Bubble Algae/Valonia and Hair Algae of both Derbasia and Cladophora types. That Hair Algae practically seemed carnivorous, and it practically ate a few frags of corals such as Zoas and GSP. And then I thought I saw a tuft of Bryopsis growing from a rock, and freaked out. I can't imagine where that could have come back from even, perhaps a piece of rubble which had been dry for several months but still had spores on it or roots in it? That's the only place I could think of.

So I went on a rampage against it, threw out several frags where I spotted it, dipped a few other frags in H202, and cut off and threw away sections of live rock which had any growing on it. That seemed to work, until I spotted some more growing from inside a rock where I couldn't reach it.

I took that rock out, dipped it in full strength 35% H202 for a few minutes, let the rock soak in the water I removed from the DT with a water change for a few minutes, and then stuck it back in the tank. I did see it bubbling, and saw some of my corals such as my Xenia close up, but I'd seen them do that before when I dipped them as frags so wasn't too worried. I was late already for an event, so I had to run then. And when I looked at my tank the next morning - tank crash...

Half my corals, my shrimp, my snails, my mini-brittle stars, dead, dead dead. Everything was closed up, sliming, looked hellish. I'd just finished collecting all the corals I wanted, so this was gut wrenching. I lost all my birdsnest, most of my mushrooms, my montis, etc, etc. I broke off and threw out what was definitely gone, and nearly threw out some of my others which looked really bad such as my Palythoas. It was on a holiday and I didn't happen to have any saltwater prepared nor could I buy any as my LFS was closed. I tested and found ammonia present, and added ammo-lock, and live bacteria cultures as soon as I was able to. And I mixed several buckets of new water and eventually did a 90% water change. Frustrating that this crash was caused 100% by my own doing, when I was trying to be adamant about getting rid of algae. And ironically then, as a result of that, I had an algal explosion, including more Bryopsis. I have to conclude that a whole tank treatment of H202 can't be administered at a high enough dose to kill Bryopsis but not the rest of the tank.

I tried to find a Sea Hare or Lettuce Slugs but couldn't, and a friend recommended Turbo Snails. I knew Turbo Snails weren't going to work, but I got one anyway. And to my astonishment, within 3 days it had eaten all my Bryopsis, and it never came back!... I know that flies in the face of what everyone else says, but my one Turbo Snail quickly mowed through and eliminated Bryopsis from my tank.

Half of my corals eventually recovered, some only in sections, and my Hammer Coral seemed to have been fine throughout and grown considerably through that episode if anything. I did suffer from Red Slime Algae for a while, but within a few months my tank seemed to have fully stabilized and was looking back to normal and good again, if a little more lightly stocked.

Conclusion: Be very careful when dipping rock in H202. I didn't consider my rock to be porous really, but I still should have let it soak in saltwater for at least 24 hours before putting it back in, instead of a few minutes no matter how much of a hurry I was to be someplace. I'm not sure even if it was H202 released into the water that caused everything to crash, things in the rock that were killed by the H202 that released ammonia or toxins into the water (unlikely), or my Palys being irritated by H202 and releasing their poison into the water?

[brandon429]

hey I just read that on reefcentral wow what a journey man. 35% is rocket fuel I thought my tank was the only one having to put up with it lol

 

sounds like you had a rather virulent strain man! would have loved to have seen the before pics and the planning stages for it all, sounded tough thats for sure. Im surprised after the first round of softer treatment you didnt try magnesium boosting, thats supposed to be an easy fix for bryopsis.

[brandon429]

I have to conclude that a whole tank treatment of H202 can't be administered at a high enough dose to kill Bryopsis but not the rest of the tank.

 

 

we have many in tank doses and cures of bryopsis here and in other threads, probably hundreds of entrants. you just had a particularly bad strain, and, we also dont know about the nutrient profiling for the tank which Im sure will be reported as great...but nonetheless, there are much less risky ways to assess if peroxide will work before going all out. I respect the 35% work that took guts man

[markalot]

Just a quick opinion on that. It could be that lower doses of peroxide make certain algae palatable to snails and hermits. That might explain the turbos eating the bryopsis.

[Mxx]

Boosting my magnesium levels with Tech M was the first thing I tried. I boosted it with that to 1850, and it had no effect. Then I boosted it further with Epsom Salt/Magnesium Sulfate to 2100, and still no effect on it.

 

When I first set up my live rock was cycling a bit, which I expect gave the Bryopsis some decent amount of nutrients to bloom. And following my tank crash, there was surely a generous amount of ammonia and other nutrients in the water which allowed it to bloom again.

 

It was only maybe a month after the crash that I added the Turbo Snail, so the Bryopsis shouldn't have been in a weakened state then from any H2O2. By that point I'd already reduced the phosphates and nitrates considerably and my tank was running relatively cleanly again.

 

Has anyone else seen Mexican Turbo Snails eat Bryopsis though?

[seabass]

Remember I mentioned that my Flower Anemone moved over a couple of inches? Well, an interesting change has occurred on both of the anemone rocks that I treated. The Rock Flower Anemone rock and the Mini Carpet Anemone rock had a corresponding anemone attached to the glass nearby the base of their rocks. Both of the anemones on the glass have now decided to move onto the treated rocks. IDK, could be a coincidence, but the timing makes me wonder.

 

I was thinking about Mxx's story and I'm starting to speculate that exposure to air (for oxidation) is an important component. This might explain why the high dose in tank treatment wasn't as effective as desired. Also, longer term in tank peroxide treatments seem to have undesirable effects on a wider range of corals, while out of tank treatments seem to be better tolerated (even by some corals that have been reportedly sensitive to in tank treatments).

 

Boosting my magnesium levels with Tech M was the first thing I tried. I boosted it with that to 1850, and it had no effect. Then I boosted it further with Epsom Salt/Magnesium Sulfate to 2100, and still no effect on it.

Yeah, for some reason, Kent Tech M seem to be the only thing that works. Most people speculate that it's another ingredient (or contaminate) in the product that makes it effective. And that the magnesium level is just a convenient way to monitor how much of the other element is being administered. For this reason, I think it might be more important to monitor the increase in magnesium (using Tech M) versus the actual magnesium level.

[brandon429]

smart call. I have seen on this thread and mainly the big reefcentral one there are times where we simply can't beat things using P although it aint very often and there is usually a confounding variable we didnt get to address lol. you can tell I hate admitting defeat

 

for example, a poster named NaCl in the rc thread had neomeris that acted just like mxx described, just dang bullet proof. he nuked his whole tank w 35% just the same, I must chalk that up to one we never won. Im interested to know why there was no response from any treatment in this tank, but with no pics, priors etc, just a summary outcome Id be stabbing in the dark to find any. def agree with the tech m statement above.

[brandon429]

since I had mentioned earlier about non committal testing on these kind of power invasions, I wanted to expound just a bit in case a new reader is considering what to do on a mass invasion that doesnt respond to anything.

 

1. use other stuff first so you wont be mad at peroxide, who can fault a last resort option lol when others had the chance to win

2. do the test rock trick above all, no matter what. take out a sample rock, treat it w 3% not 35% first, externally, in ideal kill conditions, then rinse and place back in -without removing- the algae target (or we will have nothing to track)

 

just off that test rock alone, we can save these tanks from total kills. if after the 3% this test rock didn't respond to 35%, as an external treatment, then in no way would I use peroxide

[Fsarmien]

does this work on clams? Im trying to search through the 50 pages lol

[brandon429]

we do have some limited work with clams being present. They were not harmed by the 1:10 full tank dosing run, if that is the desired application method, and I recall some treatments directly on the shell as an external treatment for crocea from the rc thread too. are you treating clams for invasion on the shell, or are you treating a tank and wondering about clam tolerance?

[Fsarmien]

we do have some limited work with clams being present. They were not harmed by the 1:10 full tank dosing run, if that is the desired application method, and I recall some treatments directly on the shell as an external treatment for crocea from the rc thread too. are you treating clams for invasion on the shell, or are you treating a tank and wondering about clam tolerance?

 

I've tried using a syringe and just injecting peroxide on the shell, which are the affected areas. However, I want to dip them in a solution not a tank dose.

[brandon429]

Since I always go for non contact (to the mantle) options I'd really like to hold off on a full dip. So it doesn't respond, the algae, to an external treatment? D you happen to have some cell phone pics or something so we can see what kind of invader?

[djfrankn]

I just do not understand one simple thing. I see a lot of people commenting here their experiences with peroxyde. For some it worked for some not.
Well, it is simple. Not all tanks are equal. The biodiversity in each tank is different. The ammount of bacteria population of different types is and won't be the same. Hence rock work, livestock, CUC, among others.
Said so, peroxyde works. I know because I use this method only to dip my new coral frags for some minutes. Of course, some tissue recession may occur but eventually the coral may overcome it. It not only rids of pest algae, it rids of pods and hitchhikers as well. So i use it mainly as a desinfecting reagent. I call it my cheap coral rx and I would dare to say, even better.

Also, @Markalot requested a history of my experience with GHA. So I'll share it with other members and what ended up solving the problem. No more for a long time already.

1st. Episode: I had a 55g with a DIY overflow box (to me that is one of the worst tank for reef due to dimensions), underrated equipment, getting h2o for W/C from a water machine @ neighborhood supermarket, overpopulated, overfeeding and stocked with rock and corals never quarantined. So, obviuously, nutrients accumulated and... BOOM!!! Alga bloom. I was able to control it after a tedious hand picking, rock brushing and W/C, W/C and, just in case, more W/C. I added a more suited powerheads for the tank. Though, there was always a small trace of it but under control.

2nd Episode: Skimmer pump breaks, I had a huge fish in my 75g (which was the upgrade to the previous 55g) and I neglected W/C for some months. Nutrients built up. Remember the small GHA patch? Well, it bloomed again. Bought the skimmer pump. I was pulling of GHA from the rocks for days and days and, more, days. W/C were now a weekly routine. So, after like 4 months, everything was under control.

3rd Episode (btw, this is not Lord of the Rings, lol): Have anybody seen at a Shell souvenir store either in Florida or the Islands those beautiful big pieces of dry coral skeleton?. Well, they are expensive right? Yes they are. I had one from an acquaintance for free. It is hugeeee. I brought it home. Soaked in RO/DI for two months (to rid of any contaminants). Btw I was changing the RO/DI water in the container every week. After those two months I put the piece of dry coral in my tank as part of my rock work decoration. On top of that I placed a small colony of brown zoas. The zoas grew and ended up covering the whole skeleton. But, I started to have small patches of GHA again. Ummmm, I was doing water changes of 20% every other week. Using filter sock, protein skimmer (overrated), RO/DI water for water changes, light bulbs were only a copule of months old (PC's), Red Sea Coral Pro Salt for making my tank water(Red Sea people, I hope I get a freebie. lol), feeding twice a day small ammounts of frozen food previously thawed in RO/DI water for at least ten minutes and then rinsed of in a brine shrimp net. So, I was doing everything right. The GHA was taking over the whole rock work. I was reading and reading. Doing research everyday. I did not know the cause. So, one day I run into one of Melev's research (many of you out there know who is Melev) and he checked the phosphate level of a piece of dry coral skeleton soaking in RO/DI water for a couple of days. Well, the reading was 2.0 . In two days that coral skeleton had released so much of phosphates???. Thank, I recalled, my problem started again just some time after I added the beautiful piece of dry coral. To me, personally, nothing is better than my whole reef tank when it comes to compare it with a piece of coral skeleton. So, sadly, I removed the coral skeleton and had to sacrifice the, by then, huge colony of brow zoas. Then the patience and work started to cope together. After like 4 months, W/C of like 50% of volume every other week... The GHA was gone again.

Conclusion: The nutrients that fuel GHA and other pests bind to the rock work and sand. They can be removed. Patience is the key. Water changes. And those nutrients will slowly be taken out of the tank with water changes. So, at one point, tha algae that exists in our refugiums be able to take over th epest algae. That is my conclusion after solving my problem with the third GHA occurrence in my tank. I understood in previous situations that organisms compete for space in a tank. Is a natural situation.
Before anybody suggest that the coral skeleton could not be the culprit of the third episode of GHA in my tank let me explain one thing. The only SPS in my tank is a small colony of birds nest coral. So I assume, that the LPS's (zoas and the palythoa colony does not utilize phosphate at least in considerable quantities since those do not need to build a calcium skeleton) were obviously not consumming the available phosphate being released in the water column to build their skeletons. So I had more than what I phosphate than what I needed available.

Hope this personal experience/research help other members. Frank.

[brandon429]

Thats fine feedback. I really don't even think peroxide has to replace any of that. I see it as more "you got X and want it gone yesterday, here's how" its the quick fix that isn't supposed to be ok. What I wrote speaks nothing of prevention, its a remover and a darn tootin fast one.

 

I figure you can either spend months finding the right nutrient balance with your tank all junked out making excuses to people about it aging and stuff, or you can fight the same fight having never had algae in the system. Another way of looking at it would be if you keep having to reuse peroxide, the prevention system still stinks.

 

Any of these tanks might be the one that doesnt respond to a low level test...alternative to a big 35 boost its ok to try something less lethal first~

 

Its no cure all, just a cure nearly all at least as a reset button. Use it or not, I just like to look for repeating variables in the pics and wording of those who did.

 

Lastly, those who are managing nutrients with an invaded tank arent at homeostasis yet, they are managing algae removal, eutrophication, they are all concerned about some P and N. Starting from a clean palette is much more stable. That's real tank balance...keeping your water at balance, not having a huge tip in favor of primary production (algae growth) with a little spike in N or P from that occasional great feeding...if you have grazer balance, or a little ace in the hole cheat, you won't spend time obsessing for parameter perfection as the only justifiable means to a clean tank.

[seabass]

Today (for comparison):

[brandon429]

Seabass can i repost your before and afters w credit in the rc thread too that maxi mini info was golden

[seabass]

Sure, go for it.

[seabass]

Here's the other side of that Mini Carpet rock (where the other anemone decided to attach).

The other day there was still some green algae on the underside of the rock. This anemone is hiding most of it (you can still see bits in some places). I'm thinking that the lighting might actually help to oxidize the algae.

 

I went out a got 2 gallons of peroxide to do some more treatments.

[Arkayology]

I went out a got 2 gallons of peroxide to do some more treatments.

I wonder what the person selling the peroxide thought you were going to do with it? lol

[brandon429]

Ill take a couple gallons of the high percentage stuff, a giant turkey baster and some fuzzy cuffs. Its aquarium work, trust me

 

 

On a separate ticket ill pay in cash, go ahead and ring me up a bag of your finest diameter injection syringes and anything I can use to inflict burn damage. Again, aquarium work ma'am. Also a gallon of vodka and some bags of lime just so I don't have to make a second trip back into town pls.

[seabass]

I think about what people must think whenever I check out with a bunch of muriatic acid or bleach (or even a few gallons of vinegar). Before I got my RO/DI unit, checkout people used to ask me why I needed all the distilled water. However, nobody's had the guts to call me out on the bleach or muriatic acid (although I usually go through the self checkout line at Home Depot for the acid).

[markalot]

Update,

 

The small feather algae in the 46 is gone, I can't find it anywhere. I am still guessing that it is palatable to snails and hermits once bruised or exposed to peroxide. The areas I brushed with a toothbrush are bare.

 

In the 40, the caulerpa is still there in places, but growing slowly now that I have my nutrients under control. I doubt I'll retreat unless something bad happens.

 

Remember that branch of Forest Fire digitata that sat in a bucket of pure peroxide for two hours?

 

 

It lives! How about that, but also note the pale orange Monti on the left of that picture. That was dark orange prior to treatment. it was not treated, but even though I double rinsed apparently some peroxide made it back into the tank and this monti, like some others, is very sensitive, colorwise. It's healthy and growing, but mis-colored.

[ninjamyst]

I just want to say thanks to everyone that contributed to this thread. I am a beginner and made a beginner mistake of buying a zoa frag from Petco without dipping or QT. 2 days later, I noticed bryopsis forming. I dipped the frag in 50/50 hydrogen peroxide for 3 mins. A few days later, all trace of bryopsis is gone. Thank you thank you thank you. Now I may consider buying more frags from Petco...but probably not...haha

[metrokat]

I can confirm that full strength peroxide as a dip bleaches acroporas. Doesn't kill them, but bleaches them.

[wyattroa]

Someone help. Not sure what this stuff is. I have snails working on it, fuzzy chiton, and a fighting conch on the sand. All of which seem to work on it. But, it comes back. Not sure if its dinos, cyano, or calothrix. Here are some pictures to better help identify. A full tank shot too. If anyone could help me out with this that would be great.