CronicReefer Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 If peroxide cannot enter the tank then NOTHING happens. Oxygen will still mostly just bubble right out of the tank and there would be no clearing of organics, etc. That is not the case. O2 is highly reactive with organic compounds (among other things), you don't need peroxide to cause these reactions. I thought the claim before was the peroxide is what is causing the ORP to increase (ORP is not something I think anyone should even bother with) AND if any peroxide is making its way into your tank it is going to be the tiniest amount (I'm guessing somewhere around a few parts per billion if that). How will the green dye escape by itself if it doesn't escape with the liquid it is mixed with? Please explain. The green dye is going to escape into the diving bell and be pushed out but we are trying to determine if all the peroxide is being broken down and green dye is not going to show this in any way. You would need to test the liquid that collects in the ceramic for peroxide to prove anything. Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 O2 is highly reactive with organic compounds (among other things), you don't need peroxide to cause these reactions. I thought the claim before was the peroxide is what is causing the ORP to increase (ORP is not something I think anyone should even bother with) AND if any peroxide is making its way into your tank it is going to be the tiniest amount (I'm guessing somewhere around a few parts per billion if that). So you're saying that if I took a pressurized bottle of O2 and connected it to a ceramic diffuser in my tank and cranked it up that it would have the same effect clearing effect as peroxide dosing or injecting ozone (O3, which is highly reactive)? If so, then why deal with the oxydator or peroxide at all? That would have less total cost, last far longer without adjustment or refill, and not have to deal with diluting peroxide every couple of weeks. Link to comment
CronicReefer Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 So you're saying that if I took a pressurized bottle of O2 and connected it to a ceramic diffuser in my tank and cranked it up that it would have the same effect clearing effect as peroxide dosing or injecting ozone (O3, which is highly reactive)? If so, then why deal with the oxydator or peroxide at all? That would have less total cost, last far longer without adjustment or refill, and not have to deal with diluting peroxide every couple of weeks. No I don't think it has the same effect as peroxide dosing or O3, I never made that claim either. However the Oxydator produces a slow, controlled, measurable release of oxygen into the aquarium. This could only be achievable with a pressurized tank that always stays at the same pressure and has a regulated flow rate and I don't think O2 is any cheaper compared to using peroxide to produce it. Link to comment
metrokat Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 [quote name="CronicReefer" post="4988369" timestamp="142704555 The green dye is going to escape into the diving bell and be pushed out but we are trying to determine if all the peroxide is being broken down and green dye is not going to show this in any way. You would need to test the liquid that collects in the ceramic for peroxide to prove anything. I'm confused by your confusion on this chronic. Since when were we trying to determine if some or "all" the peroxide is being broken down? We're trying to determine if it ESCAPES the jar. Or not at all. Whether one drop of it or more. And a dye will demonstrate that. Atoll and Albert insist it does not enter the aquarium but that O2 does. Im also confused, you say the green dye IS going to escape? Well how if it doesn't with the liquid it is mixed in? And if it DOES escape then so does the peroxide. Link to comment
pal Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 I'm confused by your confusion on this chronic. Since when were we trying to determine if some or "all" the peroxide is being broken down? We're trying to determine if it ESCAPES the jar. Or not at all. Whether one drop of it or more. And a dye will demonstrate that. Atoll and Albert insist it does not enter the aquarium but that O2 does. Im also confused, you say the green dye IS going to escape? Well how if it doesn't with the liquid it is mixed in? And if it DOES escape then so does the peroxide. It has to escape the jar into the ceramic cup I think the question is whether it is broken down into water and oxygen inside that cup before entering the rest of the water in your tank , Link to comment
atoll Posted March 22, 2015 Author Share Posted March 22, 2015 Like I said what is important here to the users of the Oxydator is does peroxide exit the Oxydator into the water column of the tank. The only evidence we could see IE a negative reaction has not been observed by any of the many I know who use Oxydator's and over many many years. There is also something else that I believe is important which has not been commented on and that is the ball used to weigh the bell of the Oxydator "A" model down. IMO this does more than just weigh the bell down. The design of the ball with the flat baseI believe also plays a part as a safety back up should any peroxide escape the beaker . Watch carefully as the micro bubbles exit the Oxydator and you will see some roll over the ball when using higher % of peroxide. This IMO is why it is stated you can use 6% peroxide in the model "A" and I know you can even add a higher % as in 9%. The design of the Oxydator I believe is to ensure no peroxide enters the main water column and presents no danger to sensitive animals. With the smaller Oxydator's a solution of peroxide of just 3% is recommended. In the model "D" there is only a shallow ceramic dish unlike the beaker and ball of the model "A" hence the reason for a lower % of peroxide recommended compared to the larger models. BTW the peroxide may react with any dye put in the Oxydator to the point you don't even see it anymore but why not try it. Link to comment
Chrisl1976 Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Just received my Oxydator from "The Shrimp Tank" and installed it. Aside from a leaking bottle of peroxide in the box, everything is good....LOL I cleaned the tank today so we'll see if anything changed for the positive. Link to comment
albertthiel Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Just received my Oxydator from "The Shrimp Tank" and installed it. Aside from a leaking bottle of peroxide in the box, everything is good....LOL I cleaned the tank today so we'll see if anything changed for the positive. Nice .... Do keep us posted. Albert Link to comment
brandon429 Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 xenia will for sure habituate to constant small peroxide doses, xenia behavior does not elminate direct low level injection. bursts stress them. im following along the details here and I still have some detractions the green dye w be complexed with the peroxide, and if the water is green, small amnts of peroxide are being leaked. could use a test container doesnt have to be the reef i disagree any variable w throw it off, run a test. if there is minimal leakage this is the best way to tell. Link to comment
atoll Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 Never had any problem using 6% peroxide and 2 catalysts in my Oxydator model "A" in my Aquareef 300 and my current model "A"is quite close to a clump of pulsing Xenia. I guess no peroxide is getting to it which is what I expect. BTW the Oxydator was put in the tank before the Xenia which I got off a fellow reefer who does not use Oxydator's in his tank where the Xenia came from. Link to comment
tibbsy07 Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Ok, so I'm at almost 2 weeks. Here is my progress thus far: Diatoms are still problematic. They are actually even growing ON the oxydator. I also had bubbles of some kind IN the oxydator, bubbling up along the sides inside the jar, not outside as my finger on the outside of the jar did not alter the bubble trajectory. I did a water change and in doing so, cleaned off the oxydator, and replaced the single catalyst with dual catalysts. I can't find anywhere local that sells anything other than 3% peroxide so I'm likely going to have to order it online, which I really didn't want to do. Oh well. For now I am going to keep using the 4.9%. Diatoms on the sand are not as prominent, but diatoms on the glass remain an issue. In addition, the algae that was nonexistent prior to adding the oxydator is now thriving on the rock it came in on. It was the last piece of livestock added to the tank, and I broke off a large chunk of the rock about 2 days that had a couple of small clusters of the same algae. I did this before adding the oxydator and the algae hadn't grown at all in the weeks it had been in my tank. It is the closest livestock (save the GSP) to the oxydator and as of yesterday morning, I have 2 different types of algae growing well. The timeline of events suggests that the oxydator is the culprit of increase in algae production, however we already discussed this and the possibility of just having to wait it out. Link to comment
atoll Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 "The timeline of events suggests that the oxydator is the culprit of increase in algae production] Incidental? Link to comment
metrokat Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Can we please try to limit posts to our own experiences. The only evidence we could see IE a negative reaction has not been observed by any of the many I know who use Oxydator's and over many many years. Link to comment
atoll Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 Can we please try to limit posts to our own experiences. Why? if you read back few who have commented have much if any experience using Oxydator's in their reef tanks. It's an open forum I think I would have been shot down for saying such a thing early days. All comments welcome no matter if you have any experience or not there will be no censorship here thank you but of course you are more than welcome to start your won thread on Oxydator's if you feel so strong. Thank you. Link to comment
metrokat Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Why? if you read back few who have commented have much if any experience using Oxydator's in their reef tanks. It's an open forum I think I would have been shot down for saying such a thing early days. All comments welcome no matter if you have any experience or not there will be no censorship here thank you but of course you are more than welcome to start your won thread on Oxydator's if you feel so strong. Thank you. Atoll, you're agreeing with my point. The statement below was the reason for my post and it seems you agree. It is an open forum, you should post your point of view or should I now start saying I know lots and lots of people who had algae increase with the Oxydator? No. I'm going to say in MY tank, this is what happened. You see the difference surely? Suggesting you know many with the same reviews as yours doesn't add weight to your personal experience at all. The only evidence we could see IE a negative reaction has not been observed by any of the many I know who use Oxydator's and over many many years. but of course you are more than welcome to start your won thread on Oxydator's if you feel so strong. Thank you. And glad to see it's no longer the end of the world for you to be back on this thread. Link to comment
Chrisl1976 Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Is peroxide denser then water its creating? Link to comment
atoll Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 Oh dear nit picking as well. Well lets just move on then. I am more than happy to read what people have to say experiences of using Oxydator's or not so why shouldn't I inform people of what I know of others who use Oxydator's have have done so for many years. Using Oxydator's for many years and not experiencing any form of algae growth. That is my experience and that of many of my friends. Unfortunately it appears you are not familiar with British humour but there you go. Who started this thread anyway Is peroxide denser then water its creating? Who knows however as there are more "O2" atoms over H2O then my guess is it's not and water pure water that is is denser. Link to comment
metrokat Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I like my tea with a spo' o' milk. And I like to drink it in my Limited Edition Queens China. Although I have yet to use my matching cake plate. Aha! I found a picture to prove the authenticity of my cake plate Link to comment
atoll Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 I like my tea with a spo' o' milk. And I like to drink it in my Limited Edition Queens China. Although I have yet to use my matching cake plate. Aha! I found a picture to prove the authenticity of my cake plate Good you can become an honorary Brit. I will have a word with her majesty next time we speak. I'm sure she will be happy to grant you a royal pardon. BTW one spoon or two. Link to comment
metrokat Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 One. The queens cups are rather shallow. Link to comment
atoll Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 One. The queens cups are rather shallow. The reason for that is one must raise your little pinky when drinking from a royal cup. TUT! don't you know how tea is to be drunk and don't dare slurp it in the presence of her majesty I thank you. or we will not be amused (the royal we of course) One should never call anything of the queens "shallow" our you could find yourself in the tower. BTW try a little peroxide in the water you use to make tea I hear it enhances the flavour somewhat don't you know. Now excuse me as I have to steam my bowler hat and press my pinstriped suit. Link to comment
Chrisl1976 Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Who knows however as there are more "O2" atoms over H2O then my guess is it's not and water pure water that is is denser. This is exactly what I am hinting at........If the pure water is separating from the peroxide and creating a upper/lower level (think oil/water mix) , which one is on top? With the theory that peroxide is being expelled from the unit, if the peroxide is on top, then water would be being expelled and not peroxide. Link to comment
atoll Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 This is exactly what I am hinting at........If the pure water is separating from the peroxide and creating a upper/lower level (think oil/water mix) , which one is on top. With the theory that peroxide is being expelled from the unit, if the peroxide is on top, then water would be being expelled and not peroxide. However you are forgetting it;s under pressure while in the bell and in such circumstances it may well stay mixed but some (O2)may well escape to the top (but not all) causing the pressure which we assume is happening. What most are concerned about is if peroxide escapes the Oxydator or not as has been stated before. IMO and with the correct strength of peroxide it does not escape into the tank water or if any does its will be extremely little as to be insignificant. That is what most of the recent debate has been about and is what is important. Link to comment
Chrisl1976 Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I had a major case of gha and was dosing 10ml in a 28nc per day fo a week with no ill effect to the few corals (zoas, shroom, torch, couple leathers and number of rics) , shrimp, and fish I had in the tank. The amount this would be leaking in any case could very well be neglect able to all but the more sensitive livestock. post from awhile back about peroxide use for gha http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/268706-peroxide-saves-my-tank-with-pics-to-prove-it/?p=4218577 Link to comment
metrokat Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 The reason for that is one must raise your little pinky when drinking from a royal cup. TUT! don't you know how tea is to be drunk and don't dare slurp it in the presence of her majesty I thank you. or we will not be amused (the royal we of course) One should never call anything of the queens "shallow" our you could find yourself in the tower. BTW try a little peroxide in the water you use to make tea I hear it enhances the flavour somewhat don't you know. Now excuse me as I have to steam my bowler hat and press my pinstriped suit. I bet you have a cravat hidden somewhere!!! Pinky in the air for sure. Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.