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atoll

Oxydator and Hydrogen peroxide.

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atoll

I have read a few posts on here about the use of peroxide to help eliminate nuisance algaes. I have been using Oxydators both the Oxydator "A" version in larger tanks and more recently the "D" version in my nano tank. I have been using these for many years with great results. They are powered by Hydrogen peroxide and help eliminate and keep at bay hair algaes and cyno. These have been used in Europe for many years in both fresh and salt water aquariums. The peroxide is not administered directly into the tank (and so is far safer) but uses a catalyst to break the hydrogen peroxide down in activated oxygen and water. The process increases redox and helps cleans the aquarium water and keep it gin clear eliminating any yellowing. The effect in many ways is similar to ozone but no electricity is used as the oxydator is self powering. I have introduced many reefers in the UK to the virtues and use of Oxydators over the years as little appeared to be known about them.

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Deckoz2302

Got any more info? Also there is a limiting factor....effecting top off. Also how will this be fed to an aquarium efficiently. Have you ever looked into h2o2 introduction via a venturing on the water feed to increase the effectiveness of foam fractionating. Very similar to introducing ozone via skimmer - without the obvious dangers of ozone.

 

However there are other factors related to the breakdown of peroxide in a reef relating to the release of hydroxy radicals in high concentrations that have adverse effects with nitrite and nitrate(perinitrous and perinitric acid). And if anyone knows what nitric acid can do...well its not good. However there are positives and negatives with every system and precaution must be taken when dealing with a continued use of peroxide or ozone

Edited by Deckoz2302

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atoll
Got any more info? Also there is a limiting factor....effecting top off. Also how will this be fed to an aquarium efficiently. Have you ever looked into h2o2 introduction via a venturing on the water feed to increase the effectiveness of foam fractionating.

 

Quote "Söchting Oxydator

Power-free oxidizer for your aquarium.

 

Due to the Oxydator's oxidizing capacity, your water quality will be improved and harmful contaminants in your water will be neutralized. In the summer, it is effective at fighting algae.

 

 

The benefits of adding hydrogen peroxide to an aquarium in cases of acute oxygen deficiency, water putrefaction and water turbidity, spawn fungus, or for enriching the well being of your fish have been known for a long time.

 

 

New is the continuous and critically higher dose of hydrogen peroxide, which the Söchting Oxydator decomposes into oxygen (O2) and water (H2O).

The advantage: Your aquarium's water quality will be fundamentally improved and problems such as those aforementioned will be greatly hindered.

 

The Söchting Oxydator breaks down hydrogen peroxide into water and oxygen:

2 H2O2 ----------------------------> 2 H2O + O2

 

 

Attention:

Because hydrogen peroxide is categorised as a type R34-8 hazardous substance, we do not offer it here.

However, hydrogen peroxide solutions in almost every concentration are available at most local pharmacies.

 

 

 

Specifications:

 

Minioxydator Oxydator D Oxydator A

Diameter 4cm 8.5cm 9cm

Height 6cm 8.5cm 18cm

Aquarium Size up to 30 Liters up to 100 Liters up to 400 Liters

Solution (Hydrogen Peroxide Not Included) 20ml, 6%

OXYDATOR-Solution 125ml, 6%

OXYDATOR-Solution 250ml, 6%

OXYDATOR-Solution

Lasts at 25°C approx. 4 Weeks at 25°C approx. 2 - 4 Weeks at 25°C approx. 2 - 8 Weeks" UNQUOTE.

 

My Oxydator is situated in the rear RH side of the tank almost out of view however it could just as easily be put in one of the rear filter chambers. There is no noticeable effect on water level when installed apart from the volume of the oxydator itself.

 

using the catalyst the peroxide is broken down in the oxydator and defuses out through a pin hole under the bell housing. Only pure oxygen and water are released.

 

I have administered H2O2 directly to the aquarium but this is fraught with dangers IME. I have never tried introducing H2O2 into a skimmer as I prefer the Oxydator which IMO is safer to use than adding it into the tank water and perhaps the skimmer.

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supernip

What is the catalyst composition?

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Deckoz2302

How exactly is this oxidizer breaking down peroxide to pure h2o and o2. Peroxide does not naturally break down as h2o and o2 because were talking about adding an oxygen ion and hydrogen giving up an electron becoming a hydroxy radical. How? It is not natural for 2 h2o2 to let off an oxygen ion without a catalyst and at that point if there were a catalyst to release the oxygen how would it exit through the bottom of the chamber? The oxygen would presurize inside forcing out the h2o/2

Edited by Deckoz2302

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atoll
What is the catalyst composition?

 

That's a secret apparently however the catalyst is made of a clay ceramic type material I suspect high in iron. The base of the "D" version and the pot and ball of the "A" version appears to be made of the same material. BTW the ball on top of the "A" version has a flat bottom and is used to weigh down the acrylic bell containing the peroxide.

When in use you might just be able to see some microscopic oxygen bubbles leaving the reactor for a little while while it settles down. The bubbles are so small that they don't tend to rise but leave the oxydator and drift horizontally in the water column. I have never witnessed any adverse effects from these bubbles on any of my corals or fish. The appearance of these fine bubbles happens mainly after first introducing the oxydator and after each refilling. I also know of a number of home seahorse keepers and breeders here in the UK are using them in both rearing tanks and stock tanks since I informed them of the benefits of oxydator's.

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supernip
How exactly is this oxidizer breaking down peroxide to pure h2o and o2. Peroxide does not naturally break down as h2o and o2 because were talking about adding an oxygen ion and hydrogen giving up an electron becoming a hydroxy radical. How?

 

That process is actually natural. I'm just skeptical of the benefits since the peroxide redox rxn is with itself on the catalytic surface. It would ostensibly decrease efficiency

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atoll
How exactly is this oxidizer breaking down peroxide to pure h2o and o2. Peroxide does not naturally break down as h2o and o2 because were talking about adding an oxygen ion and hydrogen giving up an electron becoming a hydroxy radical. How? It is not natural for 2 h2o2 to let off an oxygen ion without a catalyst and at that point if there were a catalyst to release the oxygen how would it exit through the bottom of the chamber? The oxygen would presurize inside forcing out the h2o/2

 

Sorry I think I have already answered that.

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Deckoz2302

Hmm.

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supernip

My skepticism remains. Aren't you the guy that was upset no one responds to your advice, a while back atoll?

 

But let me get this straight, instead of putting the hydrogen peroxide in your tank so it can react with other species, you're advocating putting it on a catalyst first so it can react with itself, becoming a less soluble O2 species which while is more Electronegative, bubbles out of solution

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Deckoz2302

Mine as well. Another thing as well is h2o2 presents itself at close to nsw concentrations when people run uvsterilizers(UV makes h2o2 just like UV makes ozone)....yet people would rather dose peroxide then pay for equipment...

 

I'm still confused as to how efficient this actually is and its effectiveness vs direct dose. As nip said the interaction of other species is mainly a part in effectiveness/efficiency.

Edited by Deckoz2302

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atoll
My skepticism remains. Aren't you the guy that was upset no one responds to your advice, a while back atoll?

 

Upset? I didn't get upset t :lol: Thats strange and your point is?

 

But let me get this straight, instead of putting the hydrogen peroxide in your tank so it can react with other species, you're advocating putting it on a catalyst first so it can react with itself, becoming a less soluble O2 species which while is more Electronegative, bubbles out of solution

Well let me make this clear. I am not advocating anything I am simply reporting on my experiences using an Oxydator, supplying manufacturers literature and reporting that many I know including myself have had good results using them. That's it really. Now for more scientific analysis or information on the oxydator and the process involved I suggest you contact Sochting who make the Oxydator and report their response here. I only know whats works for me and the many others I know who use them.

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supernip

If you're reporting a positive result and presenting only scant anecdotal info, then my prejudice says you're selling me something. No offense your post sounds like a sales pitch with unsubstantiated claims.

 

At this point I have to argue that you don't know it works, just that you think it does and if you can't tell me why, you've failed to convince me of its accolades. From what I can read of what you posted, you have to use higher amounts of hydrogen peroxide than direct dosing, to counter a diatomic oxygen deficiency in your water- which I can do with simple surface agitation.

 

I'm not trying to #### on your parade, I'm just engaging in dialogue since you're presenting me with a some big claims.

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atoll
If you're reporting a positive result and presenting only scant anecdotal info, then my prejudice says you're selling me something. No offense your post sounds like a sales pitch with unsubstantiated claims.

What as a simple hobbiest would you like to present to you as acceptable evidence?

 

At this point I have to argue that you don't know it works, just that you think it does and if you can't tell me why, you've failed to convince me of its accolades. From what I can read of what you posted, you have to use higher amounts of hydrogen peroxide than direct dosing, to counter a diatomic oxygen deficiency in your water- which I can do with simple surface agitation.

as above what evidenec would you like me to provide? "high amounts of hydrogen peroxide" can you quantify that please?

 

I'm not trying to #### on your parade, I'm just engaging in dialogue since you're presenting me with a some big claims.

 

I am not trying to sell anybody anything but I understand what you mean. I have experimented with hydrogen peroxide on and of for the last 25 years or so. I don't have a lot of scientific information as I am not a scientist just a simple reef aquarist. When it comes to such things I can only point to the results via my tank and try and answer the best I can the questions posed. I can point to others who use oxydators as I have said above.

Oxydators are not new and have been around for many years and used extensively in Europe. I will try and answer any questions the best I can. I could tell you how I have used oxydators in the past to help cure cyno but you will no doubt want evidence, in what form I am unsure and am unsue I will be able to provide it in some scientific way. I only have my experiences to relate and offer.

 

Quote "Aren't you the guy that was upset no one responds to your advice, a while back atoll?"

was that necessary or called for, you know to some that might sound like baiting.

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atoll

Further information can be found on the Soeching web site here.

http://www.oxydator.de/english/soechting_oxydators.html

I hope it will answer many of your questions that I am unable to. Maybe if you contact Soeching direct they will be able to provide you with the answers you seek that I am unable to provide. If you email them I would be very interested to read both your questions and their reply. Thanks.

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atoll

supernip have you had time to check out the link I posted to the Soeching web site? I am curious to know if you also emailed them your questions about the use of H2O2 in the Oxygenator and the processes involved. Perhaps the links I gave answered your questions but it would be interesting to have your feedback. Thanks.

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patback

I... UHH... Put Uhm... Peroxide on my boo boos.

 

I'm leaving this thread to read somthung I can understand.

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M@!

Oxydators are commonly used for seahorse tanks. You can find tons of information if you do a search on forums.seahorse.org.

 

This is a quote from Dan Underwood, owner and operations of seahorsesource.com.

 

"As mentioned above, the oxydators work by the catalyst reacting with the peroxide. This releases the gas inside the device and the gas rises. As it expands, it pushes very small amount of peroxide out the bottom. Using the recommend size oxydator and the recommended solution, I have not been able to get a peroxide reading in a tank. When I have increased the strength several times that of the recommendation, I did get peroxide readings.

 

I too have done peroxide dosing on tanks. Even when dosing 5 to 10 mg/L daily, I have found the oxydators worked better. My guess is because they are constantly working in a slow regulated way. "

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atoll
Oxydators are commonly used for seahorse tanks. You can find tons of information if you do a search on forums.seahorse.org.

 

This is a quote from Dan Underwood, owner and operations of seahorsesource.com.

 

"As mentioned above, the oxydators work by the catalyst reacting with the peroxide. This releases the gas inside the device and the gas rises. As it expands, it pushes very small amount of peroxide out the bottom. Using the recommend size oxydator and the recommended solution, I have not been able to get a peroxide reading in a tank. When I have increased the strength several times that of the recommendation, I did get peroxide readings.

 

I too have done peroxide dosing on tanks. Even when dosing 5 to 10 mg/L daily, I have found the oxydators worked better. My guess is because they are constantly working in a slow regulated way. "

 

I think thats how I described how it works in my posts above however I am lead to believe that H2O2 is not in itself released directly into the tank water. What I am told is that the provided catalyst breaks down the peroxide and the receptacle releases nothing but water and oxygen. I wonder how long Dan Underwood has been using oxydators with his seahorses and if in fact he has how the oxydator works correct. The information on the Sochting site makes no mention of peroxide entering the tank only water and oxygen. Maybe the fact this guy Dan Underwood uses them will give them some sort of credence to oxydators. I must check out more into his site. Like I have stated all along I know of many people using them and I have introduced them to many in the UK inc home seahorse keepers and breeders. I had no idea Dan Underwood was using them but it does not surprise me at all. I have been using oxydators for many years for the reasons already stated along with many in Europe.

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atoll

I found this from Dan Underwood he posted in October 2008.

Quote "Another thing I have started experimenting with is the Oxydator. It releases trace amount of H2O2 into the tank. This has the benefit of helping the 02 saturation stay at the proper levels, oxidizes some of the organics in the water and kills bacteria and protozoa. Thus far it is showing great promise but I still have a lot more testing to do with them." Unquote.

 

So he has been using them for 2.1/2 years not sure if he has given any updates on their use with seahorses as yet though, must check it out further..

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atoll

Nothing more to add, ask or report back supernip? I am surprised giving your earlier posts and my subsequent ones. I guess then all your questions have been answered if not by me then either the links I have given or the emails you may have sent to Sochting. Given that so few on here have heard of the Oxygenator I would have thought there may have been more interest. I do wonder however if Oxygenators are available in the US or at least something similar but maybe the patent prevents similar devises being produced. I do know they are very much favoured by discus keepers in Europe so maybe there are those in the US using them. I do have a link to a mail order company here in the UK if people are interested. To give some idea the price for the Oxygenator "D" version (which is the one I am using in my 94L nano) is $32.4 I can also supply the email address for the company.

Anyway seeing the thread has gone cold at least for now fair enough and you may not wish to discuss it further.

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supernip

Actually I got bored and dropped it. Apparently the butthurtery is strong in this one. I didn't make a bunch of fantastic claims, you did. Burden of proof is on you.

 

Feel free to explain how a catalyst works, the product and reactants of the rxn and how they interact with the water chemistry. Until then, continue to "give advice"

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atoll
Actually I got bored and dropped it. Apparently the butthurtery is strong in this one. I didn't make a bunch of fantastic claims, you did. Burden of proof is on you.

 

Feel free to explain how a catalyst works, the product and reactants of the rxn and how they interact with the water chemistry. Until then, continue to "give advice"

 

Thanks for the reply, appreciated.

Shame you got bored though as I and many others have found the Oxygenator and its use quite fascinating. I did ask you what kind of proof you were looking for but unfortunately you didn't reply.

As to how a catalyst works I am sure you are more than capable of Googling it and indeed checking out the links I posted on the Oxygenator and its workings. One can only assume you have not bothered to. I am sure you will agree there is no need for me to simply copy and paste such information other peoples work and explanations. If you have any interest at all I am sure you will check it out for yourself.

Advice I give free but the advice I do give is mostly on my experiences rather than any scientific analysis. I am no scientist as I have said before but all the explanations can all be found with a little research but then I am sure you are also aware of that.

 

Thank you once again for your input and consideration I will leave it here however I have posted on another peroxide thread on here for those interested that is.

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albertthiel

If you're reporting a positive result and presenting only scant anecdotal info, then my prejudice says you're selling me something. No offense your post sounds like a sales pitch with unsubstantiated claims.

 

At this point I have to argue that you don't know it works, just that you think it does and if you can't tell me why, you've failed to convince me of its accolades. From what I can read of what you posted, you have to use higher amounts of hydrogen peroxide than direct dosing, to counter a diatomic oxygen deficiency in your water- which I can do with simple surface agitation.

 

I'm not trying to #### on your parade, I'm just engaging in dialogue since you're presenting me with a some big claims.

 

Nip I use it as well and have been for weeks and weeks and have only seen positive reactions in the tank. I even posted pictures on my thread of what the tank looked like when the Oxydator was in the tank, and then I took it out and posted pictures of what the corals looked like then after 24 or so hours, then I put it back and posted pictures of how quickly the corals looked again like they did before.

 

There is NO doubt in my mind that the device increases the water quality and is beneficial and is a lot safer than adding peroxide directly to the tank although that can be done too but I have not seen any posts showing how it improved the appearance of corals as most of the posts about adding it to the tank revolved for the most part about ridding the tank of nuisance algae.

 

Les is not trying to "sell" anything ... he is just reporting what he has found using the device for I guess 20 or more years in a number of different tanks ...

 

You may also want to look at some of the post of seahorse breeders who reported great success rates (well greatly improved ones).

 

In addition the chemistry that is posted by some on this thread is not correct ... however the catalyst works and whatever intermediate compounds are produced is not the point here, the point is that free oxygen is released in the tank's water in extremely tiny bubbles that dissolve in the water and purify it as they oxidize organic material and algae spores etc ...

 

Note also that a lot of people who keep large ponds use the very large version of it to avoid the "green pond syndrome" and are successful at obtaining it.

 

So maybe we do not understand the exact chemistry processes that go on but we can certainly "see" for ourselves what the effect on the tanks is on which the unit is used.

 

Try it .... and then let us know what "you" see. That would be the best way for you to find out that it "does" indeed improve the water quality and the vibrancy of the tank's look.

 

Note that my comments are not directed at "you" personally but at the many ones that posted here and that seem to want to discredit the device, rather than trying to understand why Les (and I) keep saying that it does promote a healthier tank.

 

Rejecting an idea because one has not used a method that is suggested, or does not necessarily understand it, is IMHO not the best approach to try and determine a device's efficiency.

 

And as to how does the oxygen get out of the device ... that is thanks to the way the device is constructed. It is in fact interesting that some have tried to build DIY units and cannot get the same results because their design is not similar to how the Sochting ones is designed.

 

No one has to believe what Les posted, and what I have found also, all he has been trying to do is share something that has successfully worked for him, and so it is a pity that some have reacted to his postings in the manner they have. It is not usual on this forum for people to get put down and so I am surprised at some of what I read on this thread and felt I would add my 2 cents.

 

I have plenty of posts on my own thread about the oxydator including some by hobbyists who have ordered the device directly from the UK and have reported positive results already even though they have not had the device for very long.

 

FWIW - and just my opinion and as I said not directed at you personally Nip.

 

Albert

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atoll

Nip I use it as well and have been for weeks and weeks and have only seen positive reactions in the tank. I even posted pictures on my thread of what the tank looked like when the Oxydator was in the tank, and then I took it out and posted pictures of what the corals looked like then after 24 or so hours, then I put it back and posted pictures of how quickly the corals looked again like they did before.

 

There is NO doubt in my mind that the device increases the water quality and is beneficial and is a lot safer than adding peroxide directly to the tank although that can be done too but I have not seen any posts showing how it improved the appearance of corals as most of the posts about adding it to the tank revolved for the most part about ridding the tank of nuisance algae.

 

Les is not trying to "sell" anything ... he is just reporting what he has found using the device for I guess 20 or more years in a number of different tanks ...

 

You may also want to look at some of the post of seahorse breeders who reported great success rates (well greatly improved ones).

 

In addition the chemistry that is posted by some on this thread is not correct ... however the catalyst works and whatever intermediate compounds are produced is not the point here, the point is that free oxygen is released in the tank's water in extremely tiny bubbles that dissolve in the water and purify it as they oxidize organic material and algae spores etc ...

 

Note also that a lot of people who keep large ponds use the very large version of it to avoid the "green pond syndrome" and are successful at obtaining it.

 

So maybe we do not understand the exact chemistry processes that go on but we can certainly "see" for ourselves what the effect on the tanks is on which the unit is used.

 

Try it .... and then let us know what "you" see. That would be the best way for you to find out that it "does" indeed improve the water quality and the vibrancy of the tank's look.

 

Note that my comments are not directed at "you" personally but at the many ones that posted here and that seem to want to discredit the device, rather than trying to understand why Les (and I) keep saying that it does promote a healthier tank.

 

Rejecting an idea because one has not used a method that is suggested, or does not necessarily understand it, is IMHO not the best approach to try and determine a device's efficiency.

 

And as to how does the oxygen get out of the device ... that is thanks to the way the device is constructed. It is in fact interesting that some have tried to build DIY units and cannot get the same results because their design is not similar to how the Sochting ones is designed.

 

No one has to believe what Les posted, and what I have found also, all he has been trying to do is share something that has successfully worked for him, and so it is a pity that some have reacted to his postings in the manner they have. It is not usual on this forum for people to get put down and so I am surprised at some of what I read on this thread and felt I would add my 2 cents.

 

I have plenty of posts on my own thread about the oxydator including some by hobbyists who have ordered the device directly from the UK and have reported positive results already even though they have not had the device for very long.

 

FWIW - and just my opinion and as I said not directed at you personally Nip.

 

Albert

 

For some reason I have only just discovered Albert's post above for which I thank him and wholeheartedly agree with his post. Many people in the UK USA and other countries on various forums have bought Oxydator's direct from the UK as although there appears to be a US distributor they never seem to have any in stock.

 

From the posts I have read from those who have purchased Oxydator's all have been very positive indeed. Although I have been using Oxydator's in my marine tanks for more years than I care to remember and endorse them I have no connection with Seahorse breeder who is selling them in the UK or the Oxydator company itself.

 

The fact is they work for many people, can be seen to work and people are reporting improvements in their tanks directly attributed to the use of Oxydator's.

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