Oxydator and Hydrogen peroxide.

[dillct]

What's regulating the release of oxygen (or hydrogen peroxide) into the tank? Is it a steady or low dosage responding to some lack of equilibrium (oxygen/organic load)? Is there risk of too much peroxide entering the tank if using a higher % H202 or additional catalysts?

 

I have one running in my tank which is cycling (using the h202 that came with the kit and one catalyst).

[jedimasterben]

What's regulating the release of oxygen (or hydrogen peroxide) into the tank? Is it a steady or low dosage responding to some lack of equilibrium (oxygen/organic load)? Is there risk of too much peroxide entering the tank if using a higher % H202 or additional catalysts?

 

I have one running in my tank which is cycling (using the h202 that came with the kit and one catalyst).

It's explained over the past few pages. The silver catalyst inside the reservoir causes the peroxide to break down and build pressure in the reservoir which drips some of the remaining peroxide in the reservoir to be pushed into the aquarium water at a regulated rate.

[albertthiel]

I've never heard of elevated ORP doing that even anecdotally. It is well-known that peroxide kills algae in this way - the algae turns white due to the peroxide bursting cells and then CUC takes care of it.

 

 

Just saying Ben because you have not heard of it does not mean that it does not have that effect

 

Albert

It's explained over the past few pages. The silver catalyst inside the reservoir causes the peroxide to break down and build pressure in the reservoir which drips some of the remaining peroxide in the reservoir to be pushed into the aquarium water at a regulated rate.

 

And the oxygen bubbles of course, large ones at first and then smaller and smaller to a point where they are so small that it becomes very hard to see them actually

 

I am still not convinced it pushes peroxide in the tank ... but I will accept it for now until I have proof to the contrary

 

Albert

[dillct]

So you're basically saying that tank condition (tank's oxygen level, etc) has nothing to do with the rate at which this unit releases oxygen/H202? Could that not be a problem for folks throwing additional catalysts and higher percentage h202 into their reservoirs? At what point does someone nuke their tank?

[metrokat]

Or it is due to the higher ORP in the tank that make the algae whiten somewhat too ... also anecdotal Kat

 

Albert

Never heard of that Albert. Ever, even anecdotally.

[jedimasterben]

Just saying Ben because you have not heard of it does not mean that it does not have that effect

 

Albert

 

And the oxygen bubbles of course, large ones at first and then smaller and smaller to a point where they are so small that it becomes very hard to see them actually

 

I am still not convinced it pushes peroxide in the tank ... but I will accept it for now until I have proof to the contrary

 

Albert

You will never find proof to the contrary. Again, the patents explicitly say that peroxide is dripped into the aquarium water. Unless you're saying that your Oxydator is not from Sochting and uses a different design.

 

So you're basically saying that tank condition (tank's oxygen level, etc) has nothing to do with the rate at which this unit releases oxygen/H202? Could that not be a problem for folks throwing additional catalysts and higher percentage h202 into their reservoirs? At what point does someone nuke their tank?

Nope, only the temperature, at higher temperatures the breakdown of the peroxide happens much faster.

 

If you used a very high percentage of peroxide and several catalysts in a very small tank with cleaner shrimp and hosting anemones, I could see you having issues, but in normal use, the peroxide drip is just that, a drip, so you don't have much to worry about.

[ninjamyst]

using the Nano version and confused how O2 or H202 is getting into the tank. Instruction say to put the cap on the glass tube so how is anything getting out of the tube??

[albertthiel]

using the Nano version and confused how O2 or H202 is getting into the tank. Instruction say to put the cap on the glass tube so how is anything getting out of the tube??

 

There are two tiny holes in that cap

[albertthiel]

You will never find proof to the contrary. Again, the patents explicitly say that peroxide is dripped into the aquarium water. Unless you're saying that your Oxydator is not from Sochting and uses a different design.

 

Nope, only the temperature, at higher temperatures the breakdown of the peroxide happens much faster.

 

If you used a very high percentage of peroxide and several catalysts in a very small tank with cleaner shrimp and hosting anemones, I could see you having issues, but in normal use, the peroxide drip is just that, a drip, so you don't have much to worry about.

 

I never say never Ben so I guess we'll have to see and yes I use the Sochting Oxydators (several in fact)

[steelfin]

Hi George, this is a classic, utterly classic, symptom of peroxide dosing. Algae first whitens and in this weakened state, inverts are seen eating it when previously they wouldn't touch a healthy tuft. Anecdotally, to me this proves that the oxydator indeed allows peroxide dosing.

 

Hi Metrokat...thanks for the reply.

 

I have seen the whitening you are referring to first hand when I have spot treated with H2O2. I would not say that the turf algae I have been battling whitened but rather appeared to turn a slightly lighter shade of green...

 

I will agree that my clean-up crew would not touch it previous to this. I even put in a sea hare for a week without any luck.

 

Note that the Oxydator was not the only variable I changed to battle my algae issue. I have doubled up on water changes (10-12 gallons) per week, slowly increased my alkalinity levels (6.4 dkh was starting point), increased my clean-up crew (various snails and 3 emerald crabs), and finally I added two of the mini Oxydators.

 

If I recall the mini Oxydator is recommended for tanks up to 8 gallons. That is why I added two of the minis. I was also using the 4.9% H2O2 solution that was provided. My tank is a Biocube 29. I estimate the total water volume to be around 23 gallons or so...My point is that I have less than the recommended Oxydator in my tank and am using the weaker H2O2 solution.

 

Does the Oxydator release H2O2 into the tank? I have no idea....perhaps in small amounts...but my understanding is that is supposed to increase levels of dissolved oxygen into the water as its primary purpose.

 

In my opinion, there are too many other variables that I changed in a short period of time to conclude that H2O2 dosing as a result of the Oxydator resulted in the extermination (for now) of my turf algae problem.

 

I am just happy it is gone...

 

Thanks

 

George

[jedimasterben]

Does the Oxydator release H2O2 into the tank? I have no idea....perhaps in small amounts...but my understanding is that is supposed to increase levels of dissolved oxygen into the water as its primary purpose.

Yes, that is what it is designed to do. It uses a controlled reaction to drip peroxide into the tank at a very slow rate, high enough to do what it needs to do but low enough to not cause harm to some of the more sensitive invertebrates.

[atoll]

All you need to know can be found here on the Oxydator site as I have posted before but always worth posting again..

http://www.oxydator.de/english/soechting_oxydators.html

[albertthiel]

 

Hi Metrokat...thanks for the reply.

 

I have seen the whitening you are referring to first hand when I have spot treated with H2O2. I would not say that the turf algae I have been battling whitened but rather appeared to turn a slightly lighter shade of green...

 

I will agree that my clean-up crew would not touch it previous to this. I even put in a sea hare for a week without any luck.

 

Note that the Oxydator was not the only variable I changed to battle my algae issue. I have doubled up on water changes (10-12 gallons) per week, slowly increased my alkalinity levels (6.4 dkh was starting point), increased my clean-up crew (various snails and 3 emerald crabs), and finally I added two of the mini Oxydators.

 

If I recall the mini Oxydator is recommended for tanks up to 8 gallons. That is why I added two of the minis. I was also using the 4.9% H2O2 solution that was provided. My tank is a Biocube 29. I estimate the total water volume to be around 23 gallons or so...My point is that I have less than the recommended Oxydator in my tank and am using the weaker H2O2 solution.

 

Does the Oxydator release H2O2 into the tank? I have no idea....perhaps in small amounts...but my understanding is that is supposed to increase levels of dissolved oxygen into the water as its primary purpose.

 

In my opinion, there are too many other variables that I changed in a short period of time to conclude that H2O2 dosing as a result of the Oxydator resulted in the extermination (for now) of my turf algae problem.

 

I am just happy it is gone...

 

Thanks

 

George

 

Thanks George ... too many variables indeed to draw any conclusions as to what the oxydator did I agree.

 

I am running a mini oxyator out of the water right now and have it filled with 4.9% peroxide and lo and behold the level in the container of peroxide is diminishing slowly but surely and I see NO fluid at all accumulating in the ceramic base yet the level inside the container is getting lower and lower

 

No "fluid" of any kind in the ceramic base ...

 

Interesting ....

 

More to follow ...

 

Seems to indicate that no peroxide is being released but I will keep monitoring it

 

Albert

[ninjamyst]

 

There are two tiny holes in that cap

 

ah ok...cuz when i turned the tube upside down, NOTHING was escaping / dripping out. But now I get the catalyst is pressuring the oxygen to leak out slowly through the tiny holes.

[albertthiel]

 

ah ok...cuz when i turned the tube upside down, NOTHING was escaping / dripping out. But now I get the catalyst is pressuring the oxygen to leak out slowly through the tiny holes.

 

The peroxide does not seem to leek out (see my previous post and the test I am running )

 

But yes the oxygen is escaping

 

Albert

[metrokat]

The peroxide does not seem to leek out (see my previous post and the test I am running )

 

But yes the oxygen is escaping

 

Albert

How, exactly?

[jedimasterben]

All you need to know can be found here on the Oxydator site as I have posted before but always worth posting again..

http://www.oxydator.de/english/soechting_oxydators.html

"Now it is known where the oxygen comes from, the question is now, how the oxygen can be dosed continuously in an accurate amount which is required for the animals in your tank or pond. This can easily be understood if you have a look at this figure on the right hand. A small catalyst sets oxygen free, this oxygen then has an effect as a propellant and presses OXYDATOR-solution (aka hydrogen peroxide) drop by drop through a little hole out of the container. The amount of OXYDATOR-solution (aka hydrogen peroxide) pressed out of the container does not depend on the size of the hole but only on the activity of the small catalyst."

 

From there, some of the peroxide reacts with the ceramic container (this produces the oxygen bubbles you see and is inefficient, the O₂ bubbles right out of the water) and the rest reacts with organics in the aquarium water (which is what gives the results).

[atoll]

If there is no peroxide residue it's reasonable to assume all the peroxide is turning into oxygeN and not entering the water column. They only time I have experienced perixide causing corals to react negatively was when I used 17% peroxide and 2 catalysts in an "A" model Which I do not recommend. Also depending on the amount of organics in the water will depend on the strength/% of perixide you can safely use. IMO this is why Shcott recommend no more than 6% in the aquarium. I have used 9% on a number of occasions wuthout observing any negative affects. A tank with good skimming and filtration will require a lower % of peroxide than one with more organics in the water. As the organics are used up/converted a high strength of peroxide can turn it's attention on sensitive corals and even algae. So using a high % time and time again then one day using the same strength you might observe a negative recation. However it is unlikely you will see a negative recation using 6% at anytime.

[albertthiel]

How, exactly?

 

Well is the level of peroxide is getting lower in the container and there is no fluid escaping from the container then two things are going on:

 

- oxygen is being produced

- the peroxide that is being broken down into water and O2 is not escaping the container but remains in it meaning that the strength of the peroxide in the container is being diluted

 

More to follow as I continue this test

[metrokat]

Well is the level of peroxide is getting lower in the container and there is no fluid escaping from the container then two things are going on:

 

- oxygen is being produced

- the peroxide that is being broken down into water and O2 is not escaping the container but remains in it meaning that the strength of the peroxide in the container is being diluted

 

More to follow as I continue this test

 

Why not put some food coloring in the oxydator and run it in a clear container of water (instead of your tank). If the food dye tints the container water or doesn't we can come to some conclusions.

[CronicReefer]

 

Well is the level of peroxide is getting lower in the container and there is no fluid escaping from the container then two things are going on:

 

- oxygen is being produced

- the peroxide that is being broken down into water and O2 is not escaping the container but remains in it meaning that the strength of the peroxide in the container is being diluted

 

More to follow as I continue this test

I'm glad someone actually put one on their counter so they can verify the reaction that is going on. As afyounie and I tried to explain, the diving bell is what prevents the peroxide from ever escaping into your tank. I would imagine however you should see some water eventually collect in the ceramic.

Why not put some food coloring in the oxydator and run it in a clear container of water (instead of your tank). If the food dye tints the container water or doesn't we can come to some conclusions.

Not really, the dye could easily escape because it is not reacting with the ceramic. We are trying to prove if peroxide is escaping not green dye.

[metrokat]

A small catalyst sets oxygen free, this oxygen then has an effect as a propellant and presses OXYDATOR-solution (aka hydrogen peroxide) drop by drop through a little hole out of the container.

t

So the document Atoll linked says this? Pretty self explanatory.

[jedimasterben]

I'm glad someone actually put one on their counter so they can verify the reaction that is going on. As afyounie and I tried to explain, the diving bell is what prevents the peroxide from ever escaping into your tank. I would imagine however you should see some water eventually collect in the ceramic.

If peroxide cannot enter the tank then NOTHING happens. Oxygen will still mostly just bubble right out of the tank and there would be no clearing of organics, etc. That is not the case.

[metrokat]

I'm glad someone actually put one on their counter so they can verify the reaction that is going on. As afyounie and I tried to explain, the diving bell is what prevents the peroxide from ever escaping into your tank. I would imagine however you should see some water eventually collect in the ceramic.

Not really, the dye could easily escape because it is not reacting with the ceramic. We are trying to prove if peroxide is escaping not green dye.

How will the green dye escape by itself if it doesn't escape with the liquid it is mixed with? Please explain.

[atoll]

The question is. Does peroxide escape the Oxydator or not. IMO and at the recommended % it does not. We have heard Xenia is highly sensitive to peroxide yet I have my Oxydator close to a large clump of pulsing Xenia as I have said and shown yet my Xenia thrives. I believe if peroxide was escaping my Oxydator and being so close my Xenia would not be so happy.