Oxydator and Hydrogen peroxide.

[Chrisl1976]

The second you drop the catalyst in tbe peroxide it's being diluted .

[albertthiel]

The second you drop the catalyst in tbe peroxide it's being diluted .

 

If that were the case then there would come a point that the peroxide is SO diluted that no reaction with the catalyst could occur, and that is NOT the case as the reaction continues till the container is empty ...

[Chrisl1976]

 

If that were the case then there would come a point that the peroxide is SO diluted that no reaction with the catalyst could occur, and that is NOT the case as the reaction continues till the container is empty ...

Not necessarily, if the rate of dilution is less then the drip rate then the container would empty before the peroxide completely converted to h2o. This could directly explain the 6% or greater solution required for proper operation. Lower % solution may eventually flip that

[atoll]

And may your god go with you.

[Chrisl1976]

Pulling numbers out of the air here.....say it takes 1000 hours to empty a100 ml container of 6% solution with one catalyst. It takes one catalyst 120 hours to convert 100ml of 6% solution to h20. The solution would not reach 0% before the container was emptied.

[tibbsy07]

So if some are in fact experiencing an outbreak of algae issues while others do not just what is the cause? Perhaps there is in fact a logical explanation in perhaps the improved/small amount of peroxide/increased oxygen levels/increased redox is causing a reaction either directly or indirectly with substances bound up in your rock or sand. Phosphate and nitrate are the logical ones but there could be others like silicate being released. algae require light (most do) and a food source so if we can eliminate our light as being the cause of an algae outbreak then a food source seems logical. I can't see the Oxydator providing a food source directly but indirectly is a possibility and more likely IMO.

It is possible, but doubtful. My sand in gravel vac'd every time I do my weekly water change. It is probable that the oxyfator is having an indirect effect in that it is causing the problem via an interaction not on the algae itself but something required by the algae. But it is the cause, at least in my case, because the problem doesn't exist without the presence of the oxydator.

[atoll]

1. I refilled my Oxydator "A" with 9% peroxide and 2 catalysts over an hour ago with still no adverse reaction by any of my corals inc my pulsing xenia.Just saying. I do feed quite heavily however 4/5 times a day which is a contributing factor in the amount of gunk the peroxide has to react with. When I have an Oxydator in my tank the O2 is higher than without as I found out when I was doing experiments with Oxydator's and using a Dupla O2 test kit to record the results.

[tibbsy07]

 

If that were the case then there would come a point that the peroxide is SO diluted that no reaction with the catalyst could occur, and that is NOT the case as the reaction continues till the container is empty ...

This isnt true. Chris is correct in that the peroxide is split into water and oxygen and the water dilutes the peroxide over time. Eventually the peroxide is too low in concentration to react because it is broken down and pushed out into the ceramic dish.

[atoll]

This isnt true. Chris is correct in that the peroxide is split into water and oxygen and the water dilutes the peroxide over time. Eventually the peroxide is too low in concentration to react because it is broken down and pushed out into the ceramic dish.

But isn't the peroxide AND water dripped out not just the peroxide?

[tibbsy07]

 

• I refilled my Oxydator "A" with 9% peroxide and 2 catalysts over an hour ago with still no adverse reaction by any of my corals inc my pulsing xenia.Just saying. I do feed quite heavily however 4/5 times a day which is a contributing factor in the amount of gunk the peroxide has to react with. When I have an Oxydator in my tank the O2 is higher than without as I found out when I was doing experiments with Oxydator's and using a Dupla O2 test kit to record the results.

That's fine, but it doesn't mean that my oxydator isn't the cause of my problems. You have a different tank, different everything. The oxydator was added and my tank is unhappy. Likely an indirect effect, but the oxydator leads to the effect because this effect isn't present without the oxydator in MY tank

[pal]

That's fine, but it doesn't mean that my oxydator isn't the cause of my problems. You have a different tank, different everything. The oxydator was added and my tank is unhappy. Likely an indirect effect, but the oxydator leads to the effect because this effect isn't present without the oxydator in MY tank

take it out already

[Chrisl1976]

But isn't the peroxide AND water dripped out not just the peroxide?

 

Exactly........but every second the catalyst is reacting with peroxide the solution % is lowering since it is being diluted with the water the reaction is creating. BUT, the rate at which the device is dosing empties the container before that solution reaches 0%

[atoll]

That's fine, but it doesn't mean that my oxydator isn't the cause of my problems. You have a different tank, different everything. The oxydator was added and my tank is unhappy. Likely an indirect effect, but the oxydator leads to the effect because this effect isn't present without the oxydator in MY tank

And you are going to up the peroxide concentration and or add another catalysts?

[Chrisl1976]

That's fine, but it doesn't mean that my oxydator isn't the cause of my problems. You have a different tank, different everything. The oxydator was added and my tank is unhappy. Likely an indirect effect, but the oxydator leads to the effect because this effect isn't present without the oxydator in MY tank

 

 

I'm wondering if your issue is not the lower percentage solution you are using.......with it being diluted the initial reaction to your tank is great, Algae is being killed and such, but it gets to a point where the solution percentage drops to a less then effective % and suddenly the algae can get a foot hold again and look....we have some dead algae to feed on. Boom....rapid growth of algae.

[atoll]

 

Exactly........but every second the catalyst is reacting with peroxide the solution % is lowering since it is being diluted with the water the reaction is creating. BUT, the rate at which the device is dosing empties the container before that solution reaches 0%

I can understand that but I can't see the % peroxide in the bell being as great as suggested. Wait till there is very little peroxide left in the bell and put a drop on your finger if its not possible to text the concentration at home. If it is more or less pure water left there will be no reaction if there is your skin will turn white as it reacts.

 

 

I'm wondering if your issue is not the lower percentage solution you are using.......with it being diluted the initial reaction to your tank is great, Algae is being killed and such, but it gets to a point where the solution percentage drops to a less then effective % and suddenly the algae can get a foot hold again and look....we have some dead algae to feed on. Boom....rapid growth of algae.

Hence why I tell those using an Oxydator who witness algae dying to get as much as possible out of the tank a quickly as possible.

[atoll]

Hydrogen peroxide is used to kill algae in swimming pools both free single cell and GHA etc for those that might not know.

[tibbsy07]

But isn't the peroxide AND water dripped out not just the peroxide?

Sure, probably in small amounts, but that doesn't mean that the residual water inside the jar isn't diluting the peroxide. The catalyst breaks down peroxide into water and oxygen. If you start with 100 moles of peroxide and 2 moles of peroxide are broken into 1 mole of water and 1 mole of oxygen, the oxygen displaces to the upper portion of the jar. Now your liquid phase has 98 units of peroxide and 1 unit of water, not 100 units of peroxide. That's a diltution, albeit small. Then let's say it forces 2 units of whatever liquid is in the jar out. The sheer amount of moles of peroxide deem that it is likely going to be pushed out more than the water. But let's say for every 1.5 moles of peroxide, half a mole of water is pushed out. Ok, so now the peroxide is at 96.5 peroxide and 1.5 water. The next step is the small catalysis of the peroxide in the jar, resulting in 94.5 peroxide and 2.5 water, followed by 93 peroxide and 2 water after pushing the liquid out of the jar. This continues and the dilution adds up. Matter can't be created or destroyed, there is a finite amount of molecules of peroxide in the jar.

 

 

I'm wondering if your issue is not the lower percentage solution you are using.......with it being diluted the initial reaction to your tank is great, Algae is being killed and such, but it gets to a point where the solution percentage drops to a less then effective % and suddenly the algae can get a foot hold again and look....we have some dead algae to feed on. Boom....rapid growth of algae.

That's what I've been saying here and in my thread. I can't make any claims until the peroxide levels are brought up. The unit is sold with 4.9% peroxide, but the patent says anything under 5% is a waste of time. 15-20% is optimal. No one seems to be paying attention, though. I'm not sure why.

 

And you are going to up the peroxide concentration and or add another catalysts?

I have added the second catalyst and I will be upping the concentration when I can actually get my hands on higher peroxide concentrations.

take it out already

I said I'd give this a fair shot, and as I'm not at the correct conditions, I'm waiting. It's not killing the tank. But it's not working yet. Can't just cut the experiment short because the data don't look like you want them to.

[pal]

 

 

I said I'd give this a fair shot, and as I'm not at the correct conditions, I'm waiting. It's not killing the tank. But it's not working yet. Can't just cut the experiment short because the data don't look like you want them to

data maybe get your skimmer working would help?

[tibbsy07]

data maybe get your skimmer working would help?

Data can be qualitative Though I don't have appropriate controls or anything, so it's really just an observation. I'd really like to check this kind of thing in a couple of picos.

 

Yeah I think the skimmer is part of my issue as well. I am still working that out, for many reasons, but I think that this is definitely a part of the issue.

[CronicReefer]

Just to reiterate for everyone who has algae issues upon initial use of the oxydator. CO2 is being produced as a byproduct of the O2 reacting with the organic compounds in the water. The oxydator has the potential to not only increase O2 but it may also increase CO2 during initial introduction of the oxydator into your aquarium (the instructions from the manufacturer state this). Increase CO2 = increased algae growth. As your tank depletes of organics forming CO2 then you should see less and less algae, unless you are feeding enough organics to the tank to keep the CO2 levels elevated.

[atoll]

15-20% is optimal. No one seems to be paying attention, though. I'm not sure why.

Oxydator recommend 6% peroxide in the aquarium Oxydator only higher solutions in the pond version as I said but maybe you missed that.

[CronicReefer]

15-20% is optimal. No one seems to be paying attention, though. I'm not sure why.

Oxydator recommend 6% peroxide in the aquarium Oxydator only higher solutions in the pond version as I said but maybe you missed that.

+1. I've had great success with 6-7% solution so I have had no reason to increase the concentration. Even 7% solution is a big difference from a 4.9%.

[atoll]

+1. I've had great success with 6-7% solution so I have had no reason to increase the concentration. Even 7% solution is a big difference from a 4.9%.

Agreed and in certain circumstances as in a cyno problem I have used and recommended 9% peroxide but if you do keep and eye on things at least for the first 30 mins or so in case of a negative reaction. I currently have a 9% solution that I refilled a couple of hours ago without any negative reaction and that's been mostly the case when using 9% but I always suggest no more than 6% for normal use.

[tibbsy07]

15-20% is optimal. No one seems to be paying attention, though. I'm not sure why.

Oxydator recommend 6% peroxide in the aquarium Oxydator only higher solutions in the pond version as I said but maybe you missed that.

The patent specifically states 15-20% is optimal but 5-30 is fine. If 6 works for you, great. I don't see anywhere in the patent that exclusively states pond vs non-pond or anything else. Do you have a link to that?

+1. I've had great success with 6-7% solution so I have had no reason to increase the concentration. Even 7% solution is a big difference from a 4.9%.

Sure, 5-30% works, but I am trying to point out that the oxydator ships with less % peroxide than the patent recommends, which is a problem. In addition, atoll said that 3% was recommended for small/nano/mini oxydators and that is totally false.

With the smaller Oxydator's a solution of peroxide of just 3% is recommended. In the model "D" there is only a shallow ceramic dish unlike the beaker and ball of the model "A" hence the reason for a lower % of peroxide recommended compared to the larger models.

[Chris!]

Hence why I tell those using an Oxydator who witness algae dying to get as much as possible out of the tank a quickly as possible.

 

Yeah that SHOULD be common sense lol