Oxydator and Hydrogen peroxide.

[CronicReefer]

The patent specifically states 15-20% is optimal but 5-30 is fine. If 6 works for you, great. I don't see anywhere in the patent that exclusively states pond vs non-pond or anything else. Do you have a link to that?

Sure, 5-30% works, but I am trying to point out that the oxydator ships with less % peroxide than the patent recommends, which is a problem. In addition, atoll said that 3% was recommended for small/nano/mini oxydators and that is totally false.

I'm sure 4.9% is probably the law for international shipping (peroxide is a dangerous acid after all) and I'm sure it also "works" at 3% but is not optimal like the patent describes. If atoll has seen in his 20+ years of experience with oxydators people having success with 3% then there must be some credit to be given there. He clearly has many years of experience beyond me or you with this device and observational data is important because often times it also how we gauge many aspects of our tanks.

[Chrisl1976]

Can the solution be tested before and after?????

 

 

Anyone know of a household chemical that will react to peroxide? Much like vinegar and baking soda do? If you dilute vinegar down, the reaction lessens. Wont be super scientific, but if you can see the definite reaction difference to a drop of 6% is different then a drop of 2%, it would be worth a shot to see the reaction after the reactor is almost empty.

[jedimasterben]

Peroxide reacts and starts to break down with just about everything. Even just giving it light will start it breaking down.

[atoll]

Quote "The patent specifically states 15-20% is optimal but 5-30 is fine. If 6 works for you, great. I don't see anywhere in the patent that exclusively states pond vs non-pond or anything else. Do you have a link to that?"

 

In the Special information section under FAQ.

.

In Technical information on the model D 3 to 6%

Model A 3% under 400ltrs 6% over 400ltrs

[Chrisl1976]

From Google........Hydrogen peroxide and sodium iodide
This one's an oldie but a goodie, and it's one you may remember from your high school chemistry class. When you combine hydrogen peroxide with potassium iodide, the result is a prodigious volume of oxygen gas. Perform this reaction in a standard beaker, and this gas — which is colorless — will just dissipate without much incident. But throw some dish soap into the mix and it becomes possible to visualize just how much gas is being produced by the reaction. The process is also pretty exothermic (i.e. the reaction produces a fair bit of heat), which is why these kids burned themselves doing the same experiment.

 

 

So who has some sodium iodide?

[atoll]

I'm sure 4.9% is probably the law for international shipping (peroxide is a dangerous acid after all) and I'm sure it also "works" at 3% but is not optimal like the patent describes. If atoll has seen in his 20+ years of experience with oxydators people having success with 3% then there must be some credit to be given there. He clearly has many years of experience beyond me or you with this device and observational data is important because often times it also how we gauge many aspects of our tanks.

 

In truth I have only ever used 6% and above, some use 3% its true. Now and again I use 9% but after trying a combination of % up to and including 17% with 2 catalysts in a 130 gallon well stocked aquarium I never recommend exceeding 9% with 6% being used on a day to day basis.

[tibbsy07]

I'm sure 4.9% is probably the law for international shipping (peroxide is a dangerous acid after all) and I'm sure it also "works" at 3% but is not optimal like the patent describes. If atoll has seen in his 20+ years of experience with oxydators people having success with 3% then there must be some credit to be given there. He clearly has many years of experience beyond me or you with this device and observational data is important because often times it also how we gauge many aspects of our tanks.

Sure, it probably is. I understand that, but it still is below the stated patented amount.

 

Quote "The patent specifically states 15-20% is optimal but 5-30 is fine. If 6 works for you, great. I don't see anywhere in the patent that exclusively states pond vs non-pond or anything else. Do you have a link to that?"

 

In the Special information section under FAQ.

.

In Technical information on the model D 3 to 6%

Model A 3% under 400ltrs 6% over 400ltrs

 

Faq from where? It doesn't have that in the instruction booklet and the patent still says 5-30.

[atoll]

Sure, it probably is. I understand that, but it still is below the stated patented amount.

 

 

Faq from where? It doesn't have that in the instruction booklet and the patent still says 5-30.

I have posted the link to the Oxydator site often.

http://www.oxydator.de/english/soechting_oxydators.html

[metrokat]

Just to reiterate for everyone who has algae issues upon initial use of the oxydator. CO2 is being produced as a byproduct of the O2 reacting with the organic compounds in the water. The oxydator has the potential to not only increase O2 but it may also increase CO2 during initial introduction of the oxydator into your aquarium (the instructions from the manufacturer state this). Increase CO2 = increased algae growth. As your tank depletes of organics forming CO2 then you should see less and less algae, unless you are feeding enough organics to the tank to keep the CO2 levels elevated.

This makes sense to me.

[tibbsy07]

I have posted the link to the Oxydator site often.

http://www.oxydator.de/english/soechting_oxydators.html

Thanks - still doesn't match their patent information, but they say it here. I'm intrigued as the patent says anything less than 5% is impractical. Concentrations matter no matter what the total volume.

[jamescstein]

Maybe they've learned something since they filed the patent.

[tibbsy07]

Maybe they've learned something since they filed the patent.

Definitely possible, but that's a pretty big difference, especially as they say in their patent that less that 5% is impractical

 

Direct from their 2004 patent, with the scientific reasoning behind it:

 

 

 

The above-mentioned aqueous peroxide solution is preferably a solution of hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) in water. It can be used other peroxide solutions, such as solutions of salts (eg addition salts) of H2O2, which are in aqueous solution in equilibrium with free H2O2. The concentration of the peroxide is preferably from 5-50 wt .-% of peroxide, more preferably 10-30 wt .-%, still more preferably 15-25 wt -.%.

It is to be noted that the inventive method can also be carried out outside of the concentration ranges stated above. A concentration of less than 5 wt .-% of peroxide (preferably H2O2) is, however, impractical because with decreasing concentration, the ratio of the volume of the peroxide solution is always greater releasable therefrom to the total amount of oxygen. Although peroxide solutions, particularly H2O2 solutions with a concentration of more than 50 wt .-% H2O2 have a very good ratio of peroxide to it releasable amount of oxygen, but such solutions with increasing peroxide concentration are increasingly unstable and can contribute to the decomposition . tend Therefore, their use is not without risk by inexperienced users.

http://www.google.com/patents/WO2004105476A1?cl=en

[Chrisl1976]

If you can't laugh at yourself, what fun is life.......Apparently no one reading the instructions for their equipment.

 

15 forum pages of trying to figure out if it doses the peroxide solution or not. Ok, maybe not 15, I didn't count

 

From the manual......pretty clearly says it doses the solution.

 

[atoll]

If you can't laugh at yourself, what fun is life.......Apparently no one reading the instructions for their equipment.

 

15 forum pages of trying to figure out if it doses the peroxide solution or not. Ok, maybe not 15, I didn't count

 

From the manual......pretty clearly says it doses the solution.

 

Well I have always told people you must use RO or distilled water to dilute the peroxide to the required concentration or you may have problems.ALL aquariums have a certain amount of detritus in the rocks or sand no matter how good the filtration so I guess it is that which is releasing the CO2

[afyounie]

So, in an uncontrolled manner means H2O2 gets into the water. So does H2O2 get into the water under normal operating conditions?

[Chrisl1976]

So, in an uncontrolled manner means H2O2 gets into the water. So does H2O2 get into the water under normal operating conditions?

 

Yes, it's a controlled release based on O2 produced by the catalyst

[tibbsy07]

 

Wow what a thread!

 

I had a chat with Dr Uwe at Söchting Biotechnic and sent him a link to this thread. We can be 100% sure now the peroxide is indeed contacting the water directly and the Oxydator is a just a rather elegant peroxide dosing system. I am still trying to get clarification of the exact mechanism as the language barrier is making things a bit tricky

 

The science behind peroxide dosing for algae control and water quality is no mystery and is well studied with literally hundreds and hundreds of papers on the subject eg:

...

Tibbsy and others are making valid points and sharing observations which is what this is all about in the end and the reason we are all on this forum sharing our experiences.

 

If someone has a different experience to you do not go complaining to the High Magus that we overheard discussion of spells to turn the village cow's milk sour. Lets investigate, create hypothesis, do science and find out why!

...

1. Dose related : Tibbsy correctly points out the included solution seems at odds with the manufacturers own specifications. I suspect the peroxide included is simply the highest concentration they can supply. When I imported these even with the week solution included I was asked to provide a Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) and was barred from importing containers over a certain size which is why I can only supply peroxide with the minis and none of the other models. I know in Tibbsy's case he is using the mini with a single Catylist in a 10g tank though the device is only really rated to 8g. This paper (while very old) is quite an easy to read and shows a very dose dependent effect of hydrogen peroxides ability to break down algae and vascular plants.
2. Equilibrium Dr. Uwe sugested the following: "There are hundreds of different algae and they have different optimal life circumstances, so it might be that a change favors one or another algae better than the others. But after a while it will get better when eventually everything reaches biological equilibrium."

...

Great post and great points! I definitely think my issue is related to equilibrium not being reached due to the lower concentration of the peroxide. I've still got to find some around here to bring it up. I have one more place to check!

 

For the record, the tank I have IS a 10 gallon, but that's maxiumum capacity. The display at most hold 7.5g and the rear chambers probably 2, but that is without anything else in the tank. The sand and rock I have with everything else changes that, as does the fact that the IM nuvo 10 was designed to have the water level in the rear chambers low, with the water in the rear chamber ~ 3inches below the rim of the tank. Based on the amount of water left in the tank when I do maintenance and the amount of water I routinely change, I expect that I have ~8 gallons total in the tank

So, in an uncontrolled manner means H2O2 gets into the water. So does H2O2 get into the water under normal operating conditions?

 

Yes, it's a controlled release based on O2 produced by the catalyst

According to Neill at Saltwater Conversion, though, Dr. Uwe Sochting has said it IS just a peroxide doser.

[Chrisl1976]

So, in an uncontrolled manner means H2O2 gets into the water. So does H2O2 get into the water under normal operating conditions?

 

 

The catalyst converts the peroxide into O2 and water. The O2 being released slowly fills the container. The O2 takes up the space inside the container and pushed the H2O2 out of the container. The catalyst acts as a controlling doser of the peroxide solution..

 

 

 

Side note to tank progress since installing the oxydator: Day 2...The tank is very bubbly today. More micro bubbles being blown out of sump return. Existing Algae is full of bubbles. Loose cyano being pulled to the surface.

[martinicu]

I have a question while on the subject of H2O2. I accidentally put too much straight 3% into my tank with a turkey baster. Its mr aqua 12 gal long . It helped with the algae GHA , however my candy cane coral looks bad. My devils hand is recovering and my acans are ok. Also mushrooms good and ricordeas also good. do you think the kandy cane will recover. They still have color but are looking very sparse.

 

Thanks

[brandon429]

i predict full recover it w just take a while

 

the chances of any tissue loss are low, caulastrea are strong against it. as most hard corals

 

if worst case any tissue loss occured it would simply come back from the center over time

B

[martinicu]

Thanks

Thats good news!

[mosquedaj]

just wanted to add my two cents on this convo...i did alot of research a couple of months ago on the oxydator to include reading the patents...the only thing of importance that changed was the catalyst...its now a pellet comprised of something like 90%ground silver and 10%regular clay as a binder then heated to set the clay. i experimented with many options including stabilized and non stabilized peroxide with lead and silver catalysts....a lead fishing weight and stabilized peroxide immediately started to negatively affect corals..the non stabilized peroxide and just a piece of a silver earring immediately produced positive affects on corals. i did not buy the oxydator. instead to make the doser, i used a squeezable hair dye bottle with a very pointy tip that i bought at sallys beauty supply for like 3$ because it was air tight and the tip because i could place air hose tightly on it...at the end of the air hose i placed a wooden airstone like those used on protein skimmers to turn the oxygen into micro bubbles .i placed the airstone in filter floss to prevent the bubbles from going to the surface too quick and to prevent the bubbles from touching corals or fish, which does harm it..trust me i experimented with it. coral tissue will die if oxygen bubbles touch it..i placed the bottle outside of the aquiarium and the airstone inside the water..since installation 4 months ago..ive notice cleaner clearer water just like if using a UV sterilzer and increased polyp extension, quicker growth and recovery and less maintenance overall...i love it...i used some unstabilized peroxide i found at an all natural food market in the medicine aisles and filled the bottle about 80% leaving room for oxygen to pool and i threw in half of a silver hoop earring my wife didnt want..after about a month i change the peroxide..every two months i remove the tarnish from the silver or just add another piece of silver...the peroxide is a bit pricey at about 15$ for only 16 ounces out here in Kansas city, but i did find a small amount of 17% non stabilized peroxide on ebay that can be diluted in a gallon of water to produce a little over 3% pure hydrogen peroxide...for about 12$ from a reputable dealer. i believe the oxydator uses a little over 4%...not sure its been a while since i read up on all of this stuff. anyways hope any of this helps...i was very sceptical at first but now im sold. and best of all it didnt cost me anything close to the oxydator or its maintenance. fyi i also experimented with no flow in the aquarium and just the diy oxydator and results were awesome...everything behaved as usual no negative affects for 24 hours...i didnt test past that..just an fyi for moving an aquarium temp transportation... fisherman also use this principle for keeping fish alive in certain scenarios. accept the gadget costs over 50$.

[afyounie]

just wanted to add my two cents on this convo...i did alot of research a couple of months ago on the oxydator to include reading the patents...the only thing of importance that changed was the catalyst...its now a pellet comprised of something like 90%ground silver and 10%regular clay as a binder then heated to set the clay. i experimented with many options including stabilized and non stabilized peroxide with lead and silver catalysts....a lead fishing weight and stabilized peroxide immediately started to negatively affect corals..the non stabilized peroxide and just a piece of a silver earring immediately produced positive affects on corals. i did not buy the oxydator. instead to make the doser, i used a squeezable hair dye bottle with a very pointy tip that i bought at sallys beauty supply for like 3$ because it was air tight and the tip because i could place air hose tightly on it...at the end of the air hose i placed a wooden airstone like those used on protein skimmers to turn the oxygen into micro bubbles .i placed the airstone in filter floss to prevent the bubbles from going to the surface too quick and to prevent the bubbles from touching corals or fish, which does harm it..trust me i experimented with it. coral tissue will die if oxygen bubbles touch it..i placed the bottle outside of the aquiarium and the airstone inside the water..since installation 4 months ago..ive notice cleaner clearer water just like if using a UV sterilzer and increased polyp extension, quicker growth and recovery and less maintenance overall...i love it...i used some unstabilized peroxide i found at an all natural food market in the medicine aisles and filled the bottle about 80% leaving room for oxygen to pool and i threw in half of a silver hoop earring my wife didnt want..after about a month i change the peroxide..every two months i remove the tarnish from the silver or just add another piece of silver...the peroxide is a bit pricey at about 15$ for only 16 ounces out here in Kansas city, but i did find a small amount of 17% non stabilized peroxide on ebay that can be diluted in a gallon of water to produce a little over 3% pure hydrogen peroxide...for about 12$ from a reputable dealer. i believe the oxydator uses a little over 4%...not sure its been a while since i read up on all of this stuff. anyways hope any of this helps...i was very sceptical at first but now im sold. and best of all it didnt cost me anything close to the oxydator or its maintenance. fyi i also experimented with no flow in the aquarium and just the diy oxydator and results were awesome...everything behaved as usual no negative affects for 24 hours...i didnt test past that..just an fyi for moving an aquarium temp transportation... fisherman also use this principle for keeping fish alive in certain scenarios. accept the gadget costs over 50$.

 

This is exactly what I was going to do. Except that I have an old CO2 diffusion disk that I was planning to use. I think I'll have to set something up soon.

[atoll]

My snails don't seem to mind peroxide lol.

[Rehype]

My snails don't seem to mind peroxide lol.

 

 

Do you have any shrimp in your tank?