Oxydator and Hydrogen peroxide.

[CronicReefer]

Any of you guys have a wet base handy and a scale? Curious if mine weighs less.

I'll weigh mine tomorrow and let you know.

[Neill.w]

[Any of you guys have a wet base handy and a scale? Curious if mine weighs less.

 

Hi Chris, this one is 226g

 

I do not stock this particular model as I do not like the mechanism it uses to close (I never re-ordered them after the first 10 I sold) It has never caused a problem or harm to any tank but it looks like a far less reliable seal than the other two units.

 

I have also had one medium unit I sold returned to me doing the exact same thing as yours.

 

This is all 3 of the main units lined up so those who have not seen them before can compare them.

 

The nano and the large units have proper sealed caps with a tiny pin hole in the cap. The medium unit has a different system where the edge of the container wedges against the bottom of the ceramic tray which has a plastic lid in it, which honestly I do not like.

 

So we can get some proper feedback and an better idea of how they are performing I have put together a survey that will be sent out to anyone who has purchased an Oxydator over the next few days.

 

Hopefully we can get a better idea of how they are working for people and common themes in cases where they are not.

 

Other than one faulty D model I mentioned no one has returned a unit yet.

 

I will publish the results hear so we can discuss

[CronicReefer]

You have to give the D model a twist after placing the reservoir into the base to lock it down in place. You should be able to pick the oxydator up by the reservoir and there should be no movement between the two if it is locked down correctly.

[Neill.w]

You have to give the D model a twist after placing the reservoir into the base to lock it down in place. You should be able to pick the oxydator up by the reservoir and there should be no movement between the two if it is locked down correctly.

 

Yes I get that, I use this exact unit in my own tank.

But it is not a great mechanism in my opinion.

[atoll]

 

Hi Chris, this one is 226g

oxydator.jpg

 

I do not stock this particular model as I do not like the mechanism it uses to close (I never re-ordered them after the first 10 I sold) It has never caused a problem or harm to any tank but it looks like a far less reliable seal than the other two units.

 

I have also had one medium unit I sold returned to me doing the exact same thing as yours.

oxydators.jpg

 

This is all 3 of the main units lined up so those who have not seen them before can compare them.

 

The nano and the large units have proper sealed caps with a tiny pin hole in the cap. The medium unit has a different system where the edge of the container wedges against the bottom of the ceramic tray which has a plastic lid in it, which honestly I do not like.

 

So we can get some proper feedback and an better idea of how they are performing I have put together a survey that will be sent out to anyone who has purchased an Oxydator over the next few days.

 

Hopefully we can get a better idea of how they are working for people and common themes in cases where they are not.

 

Other than one faulty D model I mentioned no one was returned a unit yet.

 

Capturedc.PNG

Capture3.PNG

I will publish the results hear so we can discuss

Great Ideal on the survey Neil. I know exactly what you are saying about the "D" model and I think the locking into the base via the cap needs a rethink. I know of a couple of people who have had problems with the cap not sealing as well as it should and discharging too much peroxide into their tanks. For me the model "A" is far better but then not everybody can accommodate it in their tank or sump.

[albertthiel]

 

Wrong assembly is a possibility ... or it got damaged in transit from where you ordered it

 

I got mine from

 

http://www.saltwater-conversion.com

 

Albert

[atoll]

You do have to push down and turn to lock the cap securely into place but it's easy to get it wrong and dump a lot o peroxide into the tank in a short space of time.

[Chrisl1976]

 

Hi Chris, this one is 226g

oxydator.jpg

 

 

Thanks a lot!

 

Just to confirm, had this unit been submerged for awhile before you weighed it?

[Neill.w]

 

Thanks a lot!

 

Just to confirm, had this unit been submerged for awhile before you weighed it?

 

Sure was :-)

[Chrisl1976]

ok, well mine came in at 242g

[tibbsy07]

Here is a question for everyone. We've established that the oxydator can lead to an increase in CO2 until all organics are dissolved, leading to a nutrient bloom and algal growth. What we seem to be having an issue with, though, is that those of us seeing negative effects (aka algal growth) are also sometimes seeing unhappy corals (closed, etc), but overall nutrient levels increasing should make happier corals, right? Especially sofites like xenia and zoas who thrive in dirty water - yet that isn't the case here. We can't have it both ways.

 

Then, we can look back at my tank for even further discussion on this. I added the oxydator and saw that my Cespitularia (previously thought were xenia, but they are the same family) closed as soon as the oxydator hit the water. I mean, seriously. Those things closed up immediately and haven't opened again, even having removed the oxydator over a week ago. At that time, though, I had dying corals AND algae growth. But in my thread we've established that my coral death is due to LACK of nutrients... Let's be clear - the Xeniids closed because of the peroxide, but stayed closed because of low nutrients.

 

So the oxydator made some of my corals mad. It also increased my algae growth, apparently due to nutrient increase and CO2, but my tank has low nutrients enough such that my coral are dying (acans, zoas, cespitularia) now. I still have diatoms, so the oxydator clearly isn't getting rid of THAT organic sludge or anything else that seems to be organic in the tank. I also vacuum my sandbed weekly when I do my water change.

 

So - how does the oxydator lead to increased CO2 and nutrient levels in my tank to increase the algal growth, yet provide a system that is also simultaneously low nutrient such that my corals die?

[atoll]

Here is a question for everyone. We've established that the oxydator can lead to an increase in CO2 until all organics are dissolved, leading to a nutrient bloom and algal growth. What we seem to be having an issue with, though, is that those of us seeing negative effects (aka algal growth) are also sometimes seeing unhappy corals (closed, etc), but overall nutrient levels increasing should make happier corals, right? Especially sofites like xenia and zoas who thrive in dirty water - yet that isn't the case here. We can't have it both ways.

 

Then, we can look back at my tank for even further discussion on this. I added the oxydator and saw that my Cespitularia (previously thought were xenia, but they are the same family) closed as soon as the oxydator hit the water. I mean, seriously. Those things closed up immediately and haven't opened again, even having removed the oxydator over a week ago. At that time, though, I had dying corals AND algae growth. But in my thread we've established that my coral death is due to LACK of nutrients... Let's be clear - the Xeniids closed because of the peroxide, but stayed closed because of low nutrients.

 

So the oxydator made some of my corals mad. It also increased my algae growth, apparently due to nutrient increase and CO2, but my tank has low nutrients enough such that my coral are dying (acans, zoas, cespitularia) now. I still have diatoms, so the oxydator clearly isn't getting rid of THAT organic sludge or anything else that seems to be organic in the tank. I also vacuum my sandbed weekly when I do my water change.

 

So - how does the oxydator lead to increased CO2 and nutrient levels in my tank to increase the algal growth, yet provide a system that is also simultaneously low nutrient such that my corals die?

If we look to nature for clues then having dived on corals reefs in the Red Sea you tend to see predominately SPS; LPS or soft corals but not an abundance of all 3. I have never had great success hosing all 3 together. As you know and have shown however I have no problems with my Oxydator which is close to my pulsing Xenia. However strangely enough when I refilled my Oxydator a few days ago my Xenia did indeed close for a day but was soon out again. Some of my LPS do well others not so. Many soft corals however do not. Nature has the answers it's just finding it.

[tibbsy07]

If we look to nature for clues then having dived on corals reefs in the Red Sea you tend to see predominately SPS; LPS or soft corals but not an abundance of all 3. I have never had great success hosing all 3 together. As you know and have shown however I have no problems with my Oxydator which is close to my pulsing Xenia. However strangely enough when I refilled my Oxydator a few days ago my Xenia did indeed close for a day but was soon out again. Some of my LPS do well others not so. Many soft corals however do not. Nature has the answers it's just finding it.

That doesn't answer the question. SPS and softies actually DO exist together in the wild - I witnessed it recently on a trip to the BVI, and Tim Wijgerde (PhD, coral biologist) writes about that here. Plenty of people also house them successfully all together in their aquariums (Hey metrokat, rehype, Veng, NanoTopia, etc. etc.)

 

However, my question was how the oxydator can drop my tank nutrient levels so low that coral die, and yet increased them in such a way that algae grow excessively? You can't have both.

[atoll]

The above reminds me of a long time diver I knew who dived a particular spot I think on the Israeli side of the Red Sea who dived a wonderful SPS as in Acro's reef. having not dived there for sometime he returned to the same reef only to find dead corals but pulsing Xenia as far as the eye could see. The only thing that had changed he told me was that there was a factory which was believed at the time discharging something into the sea which he believed was predominately phosphate based.

[tibbsy07]

The above reminds me of a long time diver I knew who dived a particular spot I think on the Israeli side of the Red Sea who dived a wonderful SPS as in Acro's reef. having not dived there for sometime he returned to the same reef only to find dead corals but pulsing Xenia as far as the eye could see. The only thing that had changed he told me was that there was a factory which was believed at the time discharging something into the sea which he believed was predominately phosphate based.

I don't have phosphates in the tank, though. I measured and have nothing. My tank is currently WAY too low nutrient.

[atoll]

That doesn't answer the question. SPS and softies actually DO exist together in the wild - I witnessed it recently on a trip to the BVI, and Tim Wijgerde (PhD, coral biologist) writes about that here. Plenty of people also house them successfully all together in their aquariums (Hey metrokat, rehype, Veng, NanoTopia, etc. etc.)

 

However, my question was how the oxydator can drop my tank nutrient levels so low that coral die, and yet increased them in such a way that algae grow excessively? You can't have both.

I am not saying they don't live together I am saying the reefs I have visited are predominately one ir the other. Yes I know some people can keep both I can't as said. Yes I know it doesn't answer your question it didn't intend too as I don't have the answer just like you don't and I thought I made that clear sorry if it didn't to you. I don't know why I can keep SPS some LPS but few softies with a couple of exceptions. I don't have the facilities to investigate the issue at length I only know what works for me and many others while for some it does not appear too. Why I understand that is the question.

I don't have phosphates in the tank,

Sorry but you do. I do and we all do. I think what you may mean is that you don't have a test kit or other to measure low enough but just like nitrate you do have it all be it in a low level compared to many.

[tibbsy07]

I am not saying they don't live together I am saying the reefs I have visited are predominately one ir the other. Yes I know some people can keep both I can't as said. Yes I know it doesn't answer your question it didn't intend too as I don't have the answer just like you don't and I thought I made that clear sorry if it didn't to you. I don't know why I can keep SPS some LPS but few softies with a couple of exceptions. I don't have the facilities to investigate the issue at length I only know what works for me and many others while for some it does not appear too. Why I understand that is the question.

Sorry but you do. I do and we all do. I think what you may mean is that you don't have a test kit or other to measure low enough but just like nitrate you do have it all be it in a low level compared to many.

Ah, I gotcha. My bad. As for the phosphates, I should have been more specific - I have no measurable phosphates given our test abilities.

[atoll]

Ah, I gotcha. My bad. As for the phosphates, I should have been more specific - I have no measurable phosphates given our test abilities.

May I ask what tests are you using to establish a reading of "0" on the kit you are using?

[tibbsy07]

I have the salifert test kit, a pretty reliable test. Not the most accurate, but it serves the hobbyist purpose.

[atoll]

I have the salifert test kit, a pretty reliable test. Not the most accurate, but it serves the hobbyist purpose.

Yes i am very familiar with the Salifert test kits. I have many of them. I assume you have done a "high range" test not just the normal one? If not try the "high range" test where you double the water sample to be tested along with the reagents then divide the scale by 2.

[tibbsy07]

Yes i am very familiar with the Salifert test kits. I have many of them. I assume you have done a "high range" test not just the normal one? If not try the "high range" test where you double the water sample to be tested along with the reagents then divide the scale by 2.

Yeah, I've done that one, too. Nothing.

[CronicReefer]

That doesn't answer the question. SPS and softies actually DO exist together in the wild - I witnessed it recently on a trip to the BVI, and Tim Wijgerde (PhD, coral biologist) writes about that here. Plenty of people also house them successfully all together in their aquariums (Hey metrokat, rehype, Veng, NanoTopia, etc. etc.)

 

However, my question was how the oxydator can drop my tank nutrient levels so low that coral die, and yet increased them in such a way that algae grow excessively? You can't have both.

I noticed my corals were not doing well when I was running carbon 24/7. Not sure if you are doing this but you may consider running it once a week for only 24 hours (I currently use Carbonit-X3 for 48 hours once a month). I think the oxydator may have affected your corals because it was removing what trace amounts of organics you had in the system which may have led to a no nutrient environment. Algae can pull nutrients from rocks so that can explain where algae is getting nitrate/phosphate nutrients and then the excess CO2 would only add to the growth of algae not coral. FYI I keep my phosphates undetectable as well with no issues at all. I believe by feeding frozen daily I am putting enough phosphates for corals to adsorb without allowing them to stay in the water for algae to continue feeding off of.

[metrokat]

I noticed my corals were not doing well when I was running carbon 24/7. Not sure if you are doing this but you may consider running it once a week for only 24 hours (I currently used Carbonit-X3 for 48 hours once a month). I think the oxydator may have affected your corals because it was removing the what trace amounts of organics you had in the system which may have led to a no nutrient environment. Algae can pull nutrients from rocks so that can explain where algae is getting nitrate/phosphate nutrients and then the excess CO2 would only add to the growth of algae not coral.

+1

[tibbsy07]

I noticed my corals were not doing well when I was running carbon 24/7. Not sure if you are doing this but you may consider running it once a week for only 24 hours (I currently use Carbonit-X3 for 48 hours once a month). I think the oxydator may have affected your corals because it was removing what trace amounts of organics you had in the system which may have led to a no nutrient environment. Algae can pull nutrients from rocks so that can explain where algae is getting nitrate/phosphate nutrients and then the excess CO2 would only add to the growth of algae not coral. FYI I keep my phosphates undetectable as well with no issues at all. I believe by feeding frozen daily I am putting enough phosphates for corals to adsorb without allowing them to stay in the water for algae to continue feeding off of.

Makes sense to me, though the diatoms pretty much have my rock covered. I was wondering about my rocks, and since I broke the piece of rock with the algae off of the other rock and threw it away, and removed the oxydator, no algae again.

 

What still doesn't make sense is that I had trace nutrients, which the oxydator removed, and thus my corals started dying. How then, was that enough to cause a CO2 spike that allowed the algae to grow more? There shouldn't have been much CO2 release at all given the low amount of oxydator/organic interaction. I suppose any level of CO2 would help the algae. I'm still open to the oxydator, but I'm not impressed so far.

[atoll]

Makes sense to me, though the diatoms pretty much have my rock covered. I was wondering about my rocks, and since I broke the piece of rock with the algae off of the other rock and threw it away, and removed the oxydator, no algae again.

 

Well I have stated that the Oxydator has no effect on diatoms in the past on this thread. It would appear then that the Oxydator is indeed somehow releasing nutrients previously bound up in the rock work and or sand. Although hovering the sand may well help to keep nutrients down it does not mean that some are still being absorbed into the rock and sand.

 

What still doesn't make sense is that I had trace nutrients, which the oxydator removed, and thus my corals started dying. How then, was that enough to cause a CO2 spike that allowed the algae to grow more? There shouldn't have been much CO2 release at all given the low amount of oxydator/organic interaction. I suppose any level of CO2 would help the algae. I'm still open to the oxydator, but I'm not impressed so far.

 

Can we even be certain the Oxydator "removed" trace elements? Perhaps its releasing them depending on just what trace elements we are talking about certainly the ones that could be bound up in your rock and sand. Until there is clear and proven evidence then the jury is out hence why some have no algae issues what so ever using Oxydator's.