tibbsy07 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 atoll, what I meant about the diatoms on the rocks was that the diatoms physically outcompete the algae for space in most areas of the tank, suggesting that the rock, though it may contain nutrients which the algae could remove and use, the rock was inaccessible to the algae in the majority of the tank. The algae was primarily in one spot, which did not have diatoms, but it wasn't the only place. There was another small spot in which the algae began to grow that was covered in diatoms. We can't be certain that the oxydator removed the trace nutrients, but as Cronic mentioned, that seems very plausible hypothesis considering my tank is overall low nutrient, causing coral problems, and yet the oxydator somehow destroys the organic waste and allows algae to grow more. At this point, I don't think the oxydator was the major culprit of the problems in my tank. I also, however, think it was completely ineffective at doing anything positive in my tank either. I have taken it out and the tank is doing a bit better overall, but not really. I will not be putting it back in my tank at all until I get my tank back to normal and until I can acquire 15% peroxide. Link to comment
CronicReefer Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 atoll, what I meant about the diatoms on the rocks was that the diatoms physically outcompete the algae for space in most areas of the tank, suggesting that the rock, though it may contain nutrients which the algae could remove and use, the rock was inaccessible to the algae in the majority of the tank. The algae was primarily in one spot, which did not have diatoms, but it wasn't the only place. There was another small spot in which the algae began to grow that was covered in diatoms. We can't be certain that the oxydator removed the trace nutrients, but as Cronic mentioned, that seems very plausible hypothesis considering my tank is overall low nutrient, causing coral problems, and yet the oxydator somehow destroys the organic waste and allows algae to grow more. At this point, I don't think the oxydator was the major culprit of the problems in my tank. I also, however, think it was completely ineffective at doing anything positive in my tank either. I have taken it out and the tank is doing a bit better overall, but not really. I will not be putting it back in my tank at all until I get my tank back to normal and until I can acquire 15% peroxide. What I'm saying is that the oxydator isn't going to break down phosphates/nitrates as far as I know but may have the potential to create them (I'm not certain on this though). Very little nutrients are necessary for algae to grow so the CO2 was really the driving factor. Diatoms are silicate based organisms so they will survive even in low nutrient environments as long as silicates remain present and again I don't think an oxydator will break those down either. Corals need organics free floating in the water column to absorb through there skin membranes and larger particles to be grabbed by polyps (this is what I call "dirty" water, having undetectable nitrates/phosphates is no where near as detrimental as a lack of free floating particles). So I'm thinking the combination of carbon/purigen/oxydator just created a zero nutrient environment as well as some vital trace element stripping going on to the point where it became detrimental for the tank. Link to comment
Marc.The.Shark Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I've been running mine for a couple weeks now & have seen just a minimal improvement of film on the glass, but I'm of the beleif that nothing good happens overnight. I think we all want to see the tank be pristine in a day or 2 and chuck more catylsts or higher % H2O2 in. Not gonna happen. I keep saying I'm gonna add the 2nd catylst, but then change my mind and let it ride. Look at Hype, dumped half the container in a matter of hours & pissed everything off. Granted it was an accident & unintentional, but says a lot about balance & tolerance. I think the key is not to shock the system too much at one time or you end up with less than favorable results. We can debate causes & will come up with a different answer for every tank. As far as nutrients, I run 0 PO4 (Hanna Phosphorus) & 0 Nitrates. I have a mixed reef with everything from softties, shrooms, acans, to Monti's, birdsnest. Also have a Sea fan which has been on a slow decline before the oxydator, but I think that is a placement issue. I'll admit that I've seen one small patch of hair algae on a plug of Laker zoas in the last week or so. popped up after the oxydater was added. Never had one bit of hair algae other than in my sump (I have a psuedo algae scrubber mechanism set up kinda by accident). I blasted the plug with 50/50 3% & its gone. Was prob 8-10 strands & it could have been a stronger strain cause nothing touched it (2 hermits & assorted snails). I keep my hermits cause after I dip a plug, I put it on the sand bed & they attack it & flip it over & chow down on anything on there. I feed every 2-3 days a small mix of flake/Frenzy/pellets/Snow. Only 1 fish in approx 8 gal of total volume including sump (Chem Blue & Cheato). I also have 2 starfish (brittle & serpent). I started this tank with dry rock that I previously used 4-5 years ago & about 3 or 4 lbs of live that I bought for my sump. I've been running 6 months with 0 PO4 & Nitrates, so I have a hard time wrapping my mind around that theory. I haven't seen any ill effects from low nutrients. I don't have any Acro's, but that's because my Alk swings too much right now till I figure out how I want to impliment a dosing regimen. My motivation was to reduce cleaning of my glass (acrylic), because of the risk of scratches the more that I do it. Has the oxydator helped? Maybe just a little by a day or two. Do I expect it to be my savior? Not for fifteen bucks, but I hope it will maybe help in a couple of ways. I'm also not gonna risk all of my livestock for a $15 ceramic & plastic gadget. The minute I think it's detrimental to my tank/livestock, it comes out goes in the trash. The bottom line is that this doses peroxide & we know that this can have benefits for our tanks. This is a controlled way to do that, but it has to be done with some constaraint as well. Jury's still out on whether I keep it long term, but I've decided to let it ride for a while with the 4.9% and 1 catalyst. Link to comment
tibbsy07 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 What I'm saying is that the oxydator isn't going to break down phosphates/nitrates as far as I know but may have the potential to create them (I'm not certain on this though). Very little nutrients are necessary for algae to grow so the CO2 was really the driving factor. Diatoms are silicate based organisms so they will survive even in low nutrient environments as long as silicates remain present and again I don't think an oxydator will break those down either. Corals need organics free floating in the water column to absorb through there skin membranes and larger particles to be grabbed by polyps. So I'm thinking the combination of carbon/purigen/oxydator just created a zero nutrient environment as well as some vital trace element stripping going on to the point where it became detrimental for the tank. Yeah, I knew what you meant and I think you are correct in my situation. Link to comment
CronicReefer Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I think the biggest benefit to be gained from an oxydator is simply the elevated oxygen levels, this was purely the reason I bought mine. I think this factor alone provides a superior, healthier environment for all fish/inverts that could not be achieved as cheaply and effectively as this device does. Link to comment
tibbsy07 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I think the biggest benefit to be gained from an oxydator is simply the elevated oxygen levels, this was purely the reason I bought mine. I think this factor alone provides a superior, healthier environment for all fish/inverts that could not be achieved as cheaply and effectively as this device does. Yeah, ozone isn't cheap nor is the delivery method. Even if this only brings oxygen levels to saturation and keeps them there by replenishing any oxygen lost through redox or gas exchange with the air, I think it's pretty cool. The peroxide dosing, albeit small amounts, is also a nice little benefit. I'm interested to see Rehype's results and what it does, if anything, for my tank when my tank has normalized a bit. Link to comment
CronicReefer Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Yeah, ozone isn't cheap nor is the delivery method. Even if this only brings oxygen levels to saturation and keeps them there by replenishing any oxygen lost through redox or gas exchange with the air, I think it's pretty cool. The peroxide dosing, albeit small amounts, is also a nice little benefit. I'm interested to see Rehype's results and what it does, if anything, for my tank when my tank has normalized a bit. You should check out Carbonit-X3 for carbon. It is designed to improve ORP which I think is pretty impressive if it is by a significant amount. It recommends 1 gram per 20 gallons to start which is such a tiny amount I'm amazed it even does anything. I use 5grams for 48 hours just to remove any toxins building up in my tank that my Algone can not remove. Link to comment
Chrisl1976 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Apparently my unit is just more buoyant them others......LOL Link to comment
albertthiel Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Perhaps oxygen got trapped inside to the point that it became so. Did you ever see bubbles escape from it. There has to be some reason Was it properly assembled esp that brown disk at the bottom ? Link to comment
Rehype Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I've been running mine for a couple weeks now & have seen just a minimal improvement of film on the glass, but I'm of the beleif that nothing good happens overnight. I think we all want to see the tank be pristine in a day or 2 and chuck more catylsts or higher % H2O2 in. Not gonna happen. I keep saying I'm gonna add the 2nd catylst, but then change my mind and let it ride. Look at Hype, dumped half the container in a matter of hours & pissed everything off. Granted it was an accident & unintentional, but says a lot about balance & tolerance. I think the key is not to shock the system too much at one time or you end up with less than favorable results. We can debate causes & will come up with a different answer for every tank. As far as nutrients, I run 0 PO4 (Hanna Phosphorus) & 0 Nitrates. I have a mixed reef with everything from softties, shrooms, acans, to Monti's, birdsnest. Also have a Sea fan which has been on a slow decline before the oxydator, but I think that is a placement issue. I'll admit that I've seen one small patch of hair algae on a plug of Laker zoas in the last week or so. popped up after the oxydater was added. Never had one bit of hair algae other than in my sump (I have a psuedo algae scrubber mechanism set up kinda by accident). I blasted the plug with 50/50 3% & its gone. Was prob 8-10 strands & it could have been a stronger strain cause nothing touched it (2 hermits & assorted snails). I keep my hermits cause after I dip a plug, I put it on the sand bed & they attack it & flip it over & chow down on anything on there. I feed every 2-3 days a small mix of flake/Frenzy/pellets/Snow. Only 1 fish in approx 8 gal of total volume including sump (Chem Blue & Cheato). I also have 2 starfish (brittle & serpent). I started this tank with dry rock that I previously used 4-5 years ago & about 3 or 4 lbs of live that I bought for my sump. I've been running 6 months with 0 PO4 & Nitrates, so I have a hard time wrapping my mind around that theory. I haven't seen any ill effects from low nutrients. I don't have any Acro's, but that's because my Alk swings too much right now till I figure out how I want to impliment a dosing regimen. My motivation was to reduce cleaning of my glass (acrylic), because of the risk of scratches the more that I do it. Has the oxydator helped? Maybe just a little by a day or two. Do I expect it to be my savior? Not for fifteen bucks, but I hope it will maybe help in a couple of ways. I'm also not gonna risk all of my livestock for a $15 ceramic & plastic gadget. The minute I think it's detrimental to my tank/livestock, it comes out goes in the trash. The bottom line is that this doses peroxide & we know that this can have benefits for our tanks. This is a controlled way to do that, but it has to be done with some constaraint as well. Jury's still out on whether I keep it long term, but I've decided to let it ride for a while with the 4.9% and 1 catalyst. I agree with you nothing good happens fast and it sucks my unit managed to leak that much peroxide into my tank. But in all honesty the effects were minimal as the majority of my coral didnt respond at all to the excessive H202. I was totally surprised as ive read stories where reefers crashed their tank from doing too much H202. IME The coral that responded negatively were open 24 hours later with the exception of my xenia. In addition the algae in my tank so far has been totally unaffected. Im assuming the strength of the solution played a major part but I figure Ill give my a tank a week or so to process the excess and try it again. The good news is now Im pretty confident after this experience that dosing at the recommended rate should have little to no effect on livestock. Link to comment
metrokat Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Apparently my unit is just more buoyant them others......LOL ALIENZ. Link to comment
Marc.The.Shark Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I agree with you nothing good happens fast and it sucks my unit managed to leak that much peroxide into my tank. But in all honesty the effects were minimal as the majority of my coral didnt respond at all to the excessive H202. I was totally surprised as ive read stories where reefers crashed their tank from doing too much H202. IME The coral that responded negatively were open 24 hours later with the exception of my xenia. In addition the algae in my tank so far has been totally unaffected. Im assuming the strength of the solution played a major part but I figure Ill give my a tank a week or so to process the excess and try it again. The good news is now Im pretty confident after this experience that dosing at the recommended rate should have little to no effect on livestock. Glad to hear that!! I didn't realize the bigger model didn't have the pin hole in the bottom for dosing, glad it wasn't worse! What doesn't kill you makes you stronger! lol. Yeah I've also seen minimal to no effect on the livestock in my tank. My cheato whitened out a tad bit but kept growing, so assume that it's still doing its job. I just pruned it back Sunday by 2/3, so we'll see if it keeps up the pace. The oxydator sits about 6" away from it. Still interested to see your ORP readings when you get back at it. Link to comment
flobees Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 where do you guys get the 6% Hydrogen Peroxide? Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 where do you guys get the 6% Hydrogen Peroxide? Health food stores will usually carry higher percentages, sometimes drug stores will, but you can also get it from places like ebay, etc. Link to comment
Chrisl1976 Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 ALIENZ. That's the most likely answer to all this hogde-pogde oxydator mess we are in.....LOL Link to comment
Chrisl1976 Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 At this point I am pulling the unit form my tank. I am now seeing my torch coral is completely closed today and a number of zoa's aren't opening. I filled it up at 5pm on Monday and at 8am this morning the bottle was 2/3 empty. Took the unit out and there is a lip inside the ceramic dish that the lid is sitting on. The rest of the dish id nice and smooth. I bet this is not allowing the lid to seal down correctly. Link to comment
albertthiel Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 At this point I am pulling the unit form my tank. I am now seeing my torch coral is completely closed today and a number of zoa's aren't opening. I filled it up at 5pm on Monday and at 8am this morning the bottle was 2/3 empty. Took the unit out and there is a lip inside the ceramic dish that the lid is sitting on. The rest of the dish id nice and smooth. I bet this is not allowing the lid to seal down correctly. Looks like the inside is defective. My units do not have that ridge. Albert Link to comment
Chrisl1976 Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Looks like the inside is defective. My units do not have that ridge. Albert Yeah, I contacted the vendor for a replacement or refund. We'll see what happens. Link to comment
albertthiel Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Yeah, I contacted the vendor for a replacement or refund. We'll see what happens. Who did you order from if I may ask Albert Link to comment
Chrisl1976 Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Who did you order from if I may ask Albert The Shrimp Tank Question.....are we at the point where we believe the unit is dosing straight peroxide? If I just continue to does like 7-8ml a day with a syringe that should equate out to about two weeks with the bottle Link to comment
albertthiel Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 The Shrimp Tank Question.....are we at the point where we believe the unit is dosing straight peroxide? If I just continue to does like 7-8ml a day with a syringe that should equate out to about two weeks with the bottle I get mine from www.saltwater-conversion.com and have not had any issues with what they have sent me Albert Link to comment
CronicReefer Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 The Shrimp Tank Question.....are we at the point where we believe the unit is dosing straight peroxide? If I just continue to does like 7-8ml a day with a syringe that should equate out to about two weeks with the bottle The ridge is most likely preventing a proper seal so peroxide is just free flowing out of the oxydator. A diving bell is formed due to the design of each oxydator which is the key to the device functioning the way it does. Since yours cant not form this diving bell seal yours will just dump peroxided straight into your tank rather than allowing the reactions to occur inside the diving bell. Link to comment
Chrisl1976 Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 I get mine from www.saltwater-conversion.com and have not had any issues with what they have sent me Albert Yeah, I tried there first, but he didn't have the "d' model in stock and I believe later said he doesn't sell it any longer Link to comment
CronicReefer Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Yeah, I tried there first, but he didn't have the "d' model in stock and I believe later said he doesn't sell it any longer I honestly think I bought his last one, sorry man Link to comment
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