Oxydator and Hydrogen peroxide.

[hypostatic]

Ah, so here's the thread. The china will be put to good use! lol

 

So yeah, I tried the oxydator mini for like 2-3 months, and saw no noticeable differences.

[atoll]

Ah, so here's the thread. The china will be put to good use! lol

 

So yeah, I tried the oxydator mini for like 2-3 months, and saw no noticeable differences.

You know I was kinda thinking about that the others day and it reminded me of around 35 years ago when skimmers started appearing outside Germany and Holland and some people bought skimmers and declared them junk and nothing more than a gimmick and a complete waste of money. For some people it seemed skimmers showed their worth for others it seemed not so. Maybe both were right bur maybe some couldn't recognize what the skimmer was doing behind the scenes. Oxydator's seem to be similar in that above respect in that for some they are doing a fantastic job while for others they have been considered a failure and consigned to the gimmicks of the marine world of which there have been many over the years I have been keeping marines. I belong to the former with noticeable benefits as so many havee but if others don't see any benefits that's a shame.

[atoll]

[Rehype]

You know I was kinda thinking about that the others day and it reminded me of around 35 years ago when skimmers started appearing outside Germany and Holland and some people bought skimmers and declared them junk and nothing more than a gimmick and a complete waste of money. For some people it seemed skimmers showed their worth for others it seemed not so. Maybe both were right bur maybe some couldn't recognize what the skimmer was doing behind the scenes. Oxydator's seem to be similar in that above respect in that for some they are doing a fantastic job while for others they have been considered a failure and consigned to the gimmicks of the marine world of which there have been many over the years I have been keeping marines. I belong to the former with noticeable benefits as so many have but if others don't see any benefits that's a shame.

 

Well thats a tough analogy to support as skimmers perform the function of actively removing organics while adding oxygen to the water . In an enclosed system the benefits are pretty easy to ascertain.However the truth is you dont need a skimmer to have a beautiful healthy reef. While I dont think the oxydators function is gimicky at all it certainly isnt a necessity for most reefs.

 

For instance if you already have good water circulation in addition to a functioning skimmer and open the windows/doors to your home every few days your tanks inhabitants will have more than enough oxygen. So really what would be the point of adding an oxydator? Not sure. I personally would keep one on hand for emergencies as it does a great job of adding oxygen to the water without the need for electricity or user intervention. I also think it would also make alot of sense to use when transporting fish perhaps during a tank move. Secondly the other potential benefit to using an oxydator is clearer water but that may be hard for reefers to judge as many are using a skimmer and some other form of filtration such as activated carbon/purigen which already does wonders for water clarity. So for the majority of reefers out there with skimmers and activated carbon the benefits of adding one to their system aren't apparent.

 

I purchased a unit as I was much more interested in the trace peroxide released during the reaction and the effect it would have on the redox potential within my tank. But Im one of the very few who actually cares about that reaction. So far Ive inadvertently dumped over a cup of 6% peroxide during my initial testing with the unit and while some of my coral were obviously annoyed the majority were and remain totally unaffected by the ordeal. My algae,fish,invertebrates and major water parameters were unaffected as well. The only immediate change I documented was an increase in ORP (which is to be expected when you add an oxydizing agent such as peroxide). Now im willing to use the unit again since I have it working properly but the reality is the only thing one should expect when using this product is an increase in dissolved oxygen....nothing more.

 

Les you seem to take the use of this product very personal which I can understand as your experiences have been very positive but im one to believe many of the positive results you have experienced may have had nothing to do with the oxydator but rather your reefing husbandry. There isnt any data to prove that the unit does anything more than what it was designed to do and that is create oxygen.

[atoll]

It's designed to do more than just add oxygen as outlined in thier literature you can call it a by product of adding "activated oxygen" if you wish. I am not the only one (far from it) who report positive results using an Oxydator and over many years. You pays your money and takes your pick however a raise in redox is a raise in cleaner water whether you believe you need cleaner water than you already have is another matter and there is more than one way to skin a cat.

[jedimasterben]

'Activated oxygen' is another name for ozone, by the way, so that has nothing to do with the oxydator.

[metrokat]

'Activated oxygen' is another name for ozone, by the way, so that has nothing to do with the oxydator.

YUSONEGATIVE

 

 

[atoll]

Try telling that to the makers of the Oxydators.

[jedimasterben]

Try telling that to the makers of the Oxydators.

I would happily. The Oxydator doesn't produce ozone.

[atoll]

If you happy too then do it then and post what you send and the reply you get.

[CronicReefer]

Ozone generally has to split into one part O and one part O2 before any reaction takes place with organics, the oxydator produces the O2 molecule only (which is why it is so much better and safer than using ozone). Free floating O molecules can be dangerous in high concentrations as large amounts of carbon monoxide/carbon dioxide can be produced if certain conditions are present. Ozone very rarely has any direct reactions with anything in our tank anyway, ammonia is one of these but does not take place in any substantial manner until pH is above 9.0 (not something possible in our tanks).

 

P.S. Ozone should be called engergized oxygen (if you want to call it that) not activated but that is for you to decide which word you want to use I guess.

[Rehype]

It's designed to do more than just add oxygen as outlined in thier literature you can call it a by product of adding "activated oxygen" if you wish. I am not the only one (far from it) who report positive results using an Oxydator and over many years. You pays your money and takes your pick however a raise in redox is a raise in cleaner water whether you believe you need cleaner water than you already have is another matter and there is more than one way to skin a cat.

 

What its designed to do versus what it actually does for any given aquarium are two separate things. What it actually does is add dissolved oxygen,water and trace amounts of peroxide to any given system. The term "activated oxygen" is misleading since that term is used when referring to ozone. The oxydator does not produce ozone. The byproduct of adding trace amounts of peroxide are still up for debate. Depending on the size of oxydator, strength of the solution used, number of gallons in the aquarium and a host of other variables theres no way to be sure what affect if any this amount of peroxide will have on your system. It may increase your tanks redox potential but it may not. It could make your water clearer but it may not. I think you get my point.... The only thing this unit does with any uncertainty is add dissolved oxygen to your aquarium.

[hypostatic]

I wasn't trying to diss the oxydator or anything, I was just trying to share my individual experience with it. I mean, hey, I believed that the product had enough potential that I actually spent money on it and had it shipped from the UK.

 

It's been a while since I took organic chemistry, so I can't quite comment on the exacts of what's happening, but I'm sure after all the chemical reactions take place, you'd quickly end up with H₂O and O₂ in your aquarium.

 

The only thing this unit does with any uncertainty is add dissolved oxygen to your aquarium.

 

I'm not sure it even adds dissolved oxygen into the aquarium. Looking at the oxydator running, you'd notice gas bubbles coming out of the apparatus. These are bubbles that are NOT in solution, or not dissolved. Although this doesn't necessarily mean that it's not putting ANY dissolved oxygen into the system.

 

I think the issue is this: how much is enough? In my tank, I was running a mini oxydator with 2 catalysts and 5% H₂O₂. The thing is, I don't think for my system, this was inputting much more oxygen into my tank than gas exchange at the surface, or agitation from water falling into the tank via the pumps. At least not in a significant amount.

[Chrisl1976]

So here's the dilemma. "The Shrimp Tank" sends me a second oxydator that he used for a couple weeks. He had slow dosing results. I put it in my tank and sure enough.....almost Empty in 4 days. So at this point with two units doing the same thing it leads me to the next variable and that is the peroxide. With my initial order, I added two bottle of 6% solution. I'm curious if I was sent a miss labeled bottle. Instead of 6% I got a higher dose. I'm assuming the higher the percentage, the faster it would react with the catalyst.

 

Is there a known state of the tank water itself that would increase dosing?

[atoll]

So here's the dilemma. "The Shrimp Tank" sends me a second oxydator that he used for a couple weeks. He had slow dosing results. I put it in my tank and sure enough.....almost Empty in 4 days. So at this point with two units doing the same thing it leads me to the next variable and that is the peroxide. With my initial order, I added two bottle of 6% solution. I'm curious if I was sent a miss labeled bottle. Instead of 6% I got a higher dose. I'm assuming the higher the percentage, the faster it would react with the catalyst.

 

Is there a known state of the tank water itself that would increase dosing?

Temperature has an affect of peroxide usage along with the % of peroxide used and number of catalysts.

[Chrisl1976]

Temperature has an affect of peroxide usage along with the % of peroxide used and number of catalysts.

one catalyst.....76-77 degrees

 

He runs his tanks around 81 with multiple week dosing per bottle.......freshwater vs saltwater issue?

[albertthiel]

one catalyst.....76-77 degrees

 

He runs his tanks around 81 with multiple week dosing per bottle.......freshwater vs saltwater issue?

 

Very odd that in your tank the container empties that quickly and his not

 

I would attribute it to the conditions in your tank perhaps ... heavy organic load in the water ... lots of detritus maybe ... those two + what Les pointed out would affect how fast the peroxide in the container is used up

 

Albert

[jedimasterben]

I don't quite understand how the organics in the tank would have any effect. The peroxide inside the oxydator reacts with the catalyst regardless of any external forces and at the same rate (of course trailing off as the peroxide inside becomes diluted).

[atoll]

I don't quite understand how the organics in the tank would have any effect. The peroxide inside the oxydator reacts with the catalyst regardless of any external forces and at the same rate (of course trailing off as the peroxide inside becomes diluted).

I don't understand that either.

[albertthiel]

Les and Ben ... even after 30 ;pages of messages, it is my contention that we still do NOT understand how an Oxydator really works and that most of the comments that have been made about what some have seen happening is all Anecdotal

 

Just my two cents

 

Albert

[atoll]

Les and Ben ... even after 30 ;pages of messages, it is my contention that we still do NOT understand how an Oxydator really works and that most of the comments that have been made about what some have seen happening is all Anecdotal

 

Just my two cents

 

Albert

Agreed.

[jedimasterben]

Les and Ben ... even after 30 ;pages of messages, it is my contention that we still do NOT understand how an Oxydator really works and that most of the comments that have been made about what some have seen happening is all Anecdotal

 

Just my two cents

 

Albert

How the Oxydator works is very clear. Peroxide is catalyzed inside the reservoir. This creates pressure. This pressure pushes the remaining peroxide solution out the small hole in the bottom of the reservoir into the tank water. Regardless of your or anyone else's personal feelings on that, that is how it works and you need to come to terms with that.

[metrokat]

Les and Ben ... even after 30 ;pages of messages, it is my contention that we still do NOT understand how an Oxydator really works and that most of the comments that have been made about what some have seen happening is all Anecdotal

 

Just my two cents

 

Albert

Perhaps you missed the post about the conversation that Neil had with Ochtung a few pages back. They explained how it works and what exactly happens.

[Chrisl1976]

So peroxide is pushed out into the ceramic dish under the plastic lid which seals down to the dish relatively tight. At that point what happens? Could organic levels be controlling the rate at which that is used up? Something is creating the bubbles we see and straight peroxide dosing doesn't create that. So it's doing more than just a peroxide doser.

 

In my case I think it's time to put it in a fresh bucket of water to see what happens

[atoll]

Well there are a few things that don't quite add up. EG. What are the various sized bubbles being produced by the Oxydator some of which are extremely small but often exit it in abundance? Sure the Oxydator may well dose peroxide but it appears to me it also doses O2 as well as it seems to me it is extremely unlikely they are any other form of gas or liquid. Then we have the matter of interpretation and translation between German and English and things not being translated as well as they may have been. Although the English on this site is very good that does not mean all the translation is as accurate as it may have been. I am not saying what they say is wrong its just that some things written are difficult to understand like the organics in the aquarium affecting the amount of peroxide used.