Oxydator and Hydrogen peroxide.

[metrokat]

The only evidence provided by the both of you to refute anything anybody else has said is "it works for me and many others therefore it must work". And such increasing the thread by one more post saying absolutely the same thing as the previous posts

 

Well kat yours is one post I can't be bothered to respond to as as usual you have nothing to contribute to this thread but negativity and sarcasm. Ooops sorry I just did lol. Thank for all your invaluable negative contributions however.

Same to you Les, as evidenced by your constantly bailting posts.

 

Agreed you can argue all day/week/month about how the Oxydator works but the fact is it works for many in the way it is intended and that's what matters to most. My Oxydators have worked for me for around 35 years or so

Yup. I rest my case. Lol.

[atoll]

bailting posts?

But you dont have a case Kat in fact you have added hardly anything to this thread but negativity and if you bothered to follow this thread you will find others reporting good results using Oxydator but maybe your just blind to them. BTW there are many more threads on other net forums in the UK for instance giving good results but hey you just keep having your issues and I and many more won't be. Have a good day.

[Chrisl1976]

I'd double check the seals and make sure there are no imperfections in the ceramic base that would affect the reservoir fitting inside it.

 

The vendor actually sent me a second unit for that very problem, there was a imperfection in the original unit I got. The new one was nice and smooth on the bottom.

If the reaction on the base is increased from organic matter in the water, I can see why it's being used so fast.

[atoll]

 

 

If the reaction on the base is increased from organic matter in the water, I can see why it's being used so fast.

That's the bit I find difficult to get my head around given there appears appears to be no control mechanism other than the size of the hole in the base, the pressure built up in the bell and the temperature of the tank water. I don't see how the level of organics would affect the rate of use of the peroxide but if it indeed does as the manufactures seem to suggest then so be it.

[Chrisl1976]

That's the bit I find difficult to get my head around given there appears appears to be no control mechanism other than the size of the hole in the base, the pressure built up in the bell and the temperature of the tank water. I don't see how the level of organics would affect the rate of use of the peroxide but if it indeed does as the manufactures seem to suggest then so be it.

 

I believe I read there is catalyst material in the base, The catalyst rod in the reservoir is pushing the peroxode out the hole at a controlled rate. This is were the difference in opinion come in.....is that peroxide going straight into the tank? Or if there is catalyst in the base, then that would be turning that peroxide into O2 which is going straight into the tank. Little to no peroxide is getting into the tank.

[atoll]

 

I believe I read there is catalyst material in the base, The catalyst rod in the reservoir is pushing the peroxode out the hole at a controlled rate. This is were the difference in opinion come in.....is that peroxide going straight into the talk? Or if there is catalyst in the base, then that would be turning that peroxide into O2 which is going straight into the tank. Little to no peroxide is getting into the tank.

No difference of opinion here as I also doubt peroxide is entering the tank as I have said many times. I believe the peroxide is quickly being reduced into its basic components of O2 and H2O. before leaving the Oxydator.I used the think the peroxide was broken down inside the bell and forced out under pressure but it seems the peroxide its pushed and dripped out into the beaker or base and broken down so little or no peroxide enters the tank directly. There is also the added possibility that something has been lost in the translation from German into English in the Oxydator information but who knows. I did think there could possibly be an issue with being granted a patent if they had said the Oxydator dosed O2 into the tank as this may have been covered by other patents hence the need to suggest the Oxydator doses hydrogen peroxide which may have got it round any other patents for dosing oxygen but again maybe not.

[albertthiel]

No difference of opinion here as I also doubt peroxide is entering the tank as I have said many times. I believe the peroxide is quickly being reduced into its basic components of O2 and H2O. before leaving the Oxydator.I used the think the peroxide was broken down inside the bell and forced out under pressure but it seems the peroxide its pushed and dripped out into the beaker or base and broken down so little or no peroxide enters the tank directly. There is also the added possibility that something has been lost in the translation from German into English in the Oxydator information but who knows. I did think there could possibly be an issue with being granted a patent if they had said the Oxydator dosed O2 into the tank as this may have been covered by other patents hence the need to suggest the Oxydator doses hydrogen peroxide which may have got it round any other patents for dosing oxygen but again maybe not.

 

That may also explain how the late Merrill Cohen was able to get a patent on an Oxydator like device a patent which as expired by now

 

Albert

[CJJon]

Wow, faith is strong with some around here. Come on folks, you can't condemn someone for asking for evidence. It is not a negative personal attack, it is science. If someone disagrees, then counter with data. If you have none, then don't try and invent it. Just repeating over and over that you believe it works because it must work isn't good enough.

 

Now people are making things up about how they lied on the patent application and blaming a poor translation from german.

 

I believe there is an added possibility that it may explain that maybe or maybe not who knows?

[atoll]

Wow, faith is strong with some around here. Come on folks, you can't condemn someone for asking for evidence. It is not a negative personal attack, it is science. If someone disagrees, then counter with data. If you have none, then don't try and invent it. Just repeating over and over that you believe it works because it must work isn't good enough.

 

What evidence would people skeptics of course accept? Albert and myself have both provided evidence but you get that's just anecdotal.

 

Now people are making things up about how they lied on the patent application and blaming a poor translation from german.

 

Who is making that up? It was a suggestion as a possibility only no facts etc please read what I wrote not what you tried to interpret or missread it which happens far too often on here

 

I believe there is an added possibility that it may explain that maybe or maybe not who knows?

 

Fair enough and I read that as you meant it not put my own spin on it.

BTW faith is strong built on experience and results nothing more nothing less.

[CJJon]

Who is making things up? The entire statement below is made up. You even went so far as to suggest they outright lied on a patent application for fear of being rejected. You can't possibly know these things.

 

" There is also the added possibility that something has been lost in the translation from German into English in the Oxydator information but who knows. I did think there could possibly be an issue with being granted a patent if they had said the Oxydator dosed O2 into the tank as this may have been covered by other patents hence the need to suggest the Oxydator doses hydrogen peroxide which may have got it round any other patents for dosing oxygen but again maybe not."

[atoll]

Who is making things up? The entire statement below is made up. You even went so far as to suggest they outright lied on a patent application for fear of being rejected. You can't possibly know these things.

 

" There is also the added possibility that something has been lost in the translation from German into English in the Oxydator information but who knows. I did think there could possibly be an issue with being granted a patent if they had said the Oxydator dosed O2 into the tank as this may have been covered by other patents hence the need to suggest the Oxydator doses hydrogen peroxide which may have got it round any other patents for dosing oxygen but again maybe not."

• "possibility" "possibly" are NOT statements of facts but a POSSIBLE only. Me thinks thee is just mischief making or we have a POSSIBLE problem with the English language and the misunderstanding what possible means not as a fact per-say. I guess you believe these things are not possible then which is fair enough of that's what you truly think.

[CJJon]

 

• "possibility" "[/size]possibly" are NOT statements of facts but a POSSIBLE only. Me thinks thee is just mischief making or we have a POSSIBLE problem with the English language and the misunderstanding what possible means not as a fact per-say. I guess you believe these things are not possible then which is fair enough of that's what you truly think.

Wow.

 

I may or may not have an English comprehension issue, but you surely lack even the most basic understanding of the scientific method.

[jedimasterben]

 

[metrokat]

[atoll]

Follow your leader who has already drowned in a sea of his own doing then.

[albertthiel]

Follow your leader who has already drowned in a sea of his own doing then.

We are getting seriously off track

 

Nothing constructive to say anymore all who follow ?

[atoll]

Well Albert some of us have positive results using Oxydator's as we have read and not just on nano reefs but many others some of which you are also on. Then there are some who appear to have experienced negative results. So far we have only been able to guess why that should be. Nothing we can point to as a definitive reason but that's hardly surprising that given few have the equipment or time to do such detailed research. One day we may know the answer I hope.

[afyounie]

I think the problem here isn't that they had negative results, but more that they want to understand how the Oxydator works. Stating that it works for you and etc doesn't answer how it works. That just further complicates the issue because how does it work for yourself and not these people. I have tried my best to explain and that seemed to help some. But Les, you are only aggravating the situation by saying the same thing over and over. Yes, it works for you. You don't understand how it actually works though, so let someone else try to explain. Stop quoting the patent because the patent can be written in a way so it doesn't conflict with other patents. It's also written to be vague enough so others can't copy the design.

 

I still hold that this is a passive way to dose O2 into a tank. It requires no moving parts and makes use of simple fluid/thermal dynamics. As to why for some people it caused an increase in nitrate, I believe this is due to the increased oxygen content fueling the nitrifying bacteria. Prior to adding the oxydator, there may have been a slight lack of oxygen to fuel the bacteria converting NO2 to NO3. Adding extra oxygen removed the oxygen limitation and the bacteria created more NO3. Once the bacteria has run out of organic material to convert, it should hit a state of equilibrium where NO3 production is matched by NO3 consumption. Depending on the amount of extra organic matter in the tank, this can take some time. The best way to reduce this is reduce the amount of organic matter prior to using the oxydator. The problem is, you can't get all of the organic matter that may be stuck in the rocks or the anaerobic bacteria that is now dying due to increased O2 levels. As always, when we make a change in reef aquaria, we must give it adequate time to reach equilibrium. So, if you really want to run the oxydator, probably give it a month or 2 to run before deciding if it works or not. Or just follow Tibbsy's thread as he reports his experiences.

[atoll]

I have no problem with how/why the Oxydator works, I did do but not now . However to some the how and why the Oxydator works seems more important than it does for me and many others. Personally and I believe those that are experiencing good results consider the fact it works for them more important than why it works. As you say it's an extremely simple device and I have also had a stab at how it works and how for some it may not, maybe you missed those posts afyounie but I have made suggestions.

 

There are some who appear to suggest the Oxydator does not work as it does not for them. I have been asked for proof and when I give what I can along with others we get told it's all incidental so you can't win even though many people report the same good results as myself, Albert and others. Maybe some think we are lying I don't know. I do admitted it works for some and not others at least not for others initially. Will it work for them eventually I don't know but some have removed the Oxydator after only a week stating it does not work or suggesting there is not enough detritus or organics in their sand, rock or water to create algae growth.and blame the Oxydator.

 

While I am happy to agree the Oxydator in these tanks showing poor results maybe a contributing factor I can't agree the Oxydator is adding anything other than HO2, O2 and perhaps some but not all H2O2. There seems to be more posts on how the Oxydator works rather than why it works or why it does not for some. The Oxydator itself maybe the catalyst for releasing compounds previously bound up in the rock work and sand of a tank. Few have the time, experience, know how, inclination or equipment to carry out prolonged scientific tests to get to the root of the matter and those who ask for such know that.

 

I am sorry those who are not experiencing the positives many of us are experiencing but maybe someday they will if they persevere and hopefully sooner or later they will.

[kguske2]

This thread is still going?

[atoll]

This thread is still going?

Yep.

[albertthiel]

The skepticism about its efficiency when there is so much evidence by others that the device works really well for them kind of baffles me.

 

Perhaps we cannot explain the How it works but we know based on all those reports that it DOES

 

Albert

[CJJon]

The skepticism about its efficiency when there is so much evidence by others that the device works really well for them kind of baffles me.

 

Perhaps we cannot explain the How it works but we know based on all those reports that it DOES

 

Albert

 

Sorry Albert, all due respect, but what you are saying here is not true. There really is not "so much evidence" that it works. Merely stating that it must work because people think that it does--or even have 'perfect' tanks when using it (whatever that term may mean), just doesn't cut it. Sure, it may not be particularly harmful, but there really is no evidence that the unit is "working". That is what some are getting clamped up with here. This is especially true when you make a statement like, "...we know based upon all those reports that it DOES" Sorry, but no we don't.

 

You have to be intellectually sincere and admit that there is a real possibility that it does nothing and that your success could be predicated upon something else (good husbandry practices, luck, etc.). I will freely admit that I don't really know and that it could indeed be beneficial. YMMV.

[rick12]

We have now reached 33 pages of posts about a very simple and effective device ! Kind of amazing that such a thread has come to life for the Oxydator when there are so many other methods that are being used and advocated for reef keeping that do not draw the kind of controversy and discussion that the Oxydator does

 

To mention just a few

 

The Balling Method

The Triton Method

The Zeovit Method

ULNS systems

The Druide Reef methods used in Europe

 

 

Vodka dosing

Sugar dosing

Vinegar dosing

 

 

And I could go on

 

Amazes me that the focus on a simple device like the Oxydator (compared to teh ones mentioned above) has resulted in this long a thread .....

 

Just saying

 

Albert

dont forget peroxide dosing

[rick12]

How the Oxydator works is very clear. Peroxide is catalyzed inside the reservoir. This creates pressure. This pressure pushes the remaining peroxide solution out the small hole in the bottom of the reservoir into the tank water. Regardless of your or anyone else's personal feelings on that, that is how it works and you need to come to terms with that.

IMO the release of peroxide into the tank is what keeps my water clear and helps to control algae. Don't think there's any exact science to this oxydator, everyone tends to get different and varied results...it works for me!