Oxydator and Hydrogen peroxide.

[atoll]

Lots of micro bubbles still exiting the Oxydator and my tank is full of them. Some pulsing xenia showing signs of irritation but no others. This is the first time I have used 11% in this tank as normally I would not go beyond 9% and never recommend going beyond 9% as I have often stated.my 2 bubble tips are so far fine however.

If it is Albert its hard to tell and of course our PC laptops etc will influence how the colour appears but I would expect any colour differences on the screen to equally affect the colours on the comparison chart.

[albertthiel]

Lots of micro bubbles still exiting the Oxydator and my tank is full of them. Some pulsing xenia showing signs of irritation but no others. This is the first time I have used 11% in this tank as normally I would not go beyond 9% and never recommend going beyond 9% as I have often stated.my 2 bubble tips are so far fine however.

If it is Albert its hard to tell and of course our PC laptops etc will influence how the colour appears but I would expect any colour differences on the screen to equally affect the colours on the comparison chart.

Yes it could be the color rendition on my laptop screen

[tibbsy07]

A few interesting things I've noticed here. This is not a statement that invalidates your readings - I'm simply trying to understand the differences in your results and ReHype's measurements.

 

Rehype basically showed via salifert and the ORP probe that his level of oxygen in the water was at saturation and no more, hence his conclusion that the oxydator is doing nothing for his tank.

 

 

Your tank, however, started at what would be considered minor supersaturation for the tank. While this happens in the ocean, it ONLY happens when there is an extremely high level of photosynthesis in the localized area where the supersaturation is occurring. I notice that you have an algae scrubber and as shown below...

Pic just taken.

... You have considerable green algal growth behind, around, and between your corals. Photosynthesis of coral will not cause supersaturation because the oxygen production by the photosynthetic symbionts inside the corals is immediately used as electron acceptors in the coral cells cellular metabolism. The oxygen produced by photosynthesis for corals remains within its tissue and never enters the water column. The only thing that can account for the increased photosynthesis leading to supersaturation is the presence of algae, macro or micro, and photosynthetic bacteria (Cyano and otherwise). I believe you may be seeing higher baseline and subsequent measured oxygen, basically supersaturation from the beginning, because you have a relatively high amount of photosynthetic non-coral organisms in your tank.

 

Again, that doesn't negate your oxydator readings, but explains why you have a higher baseline. It also may explain why some of us saw an increase in algal growth IN our tanks where you don't. Your algae scrubber may utilize much of the CO2 produced by the organic reaction with residual peroxide dosed into the tank before it has any effect on your display as that algae really already has a hold and perfect growing situation. Others of us, like me, only have a few bits of algae to utilize that CO2 and thus I saw an increase in the algae in my display because there is only that algae to utilize the extra molecules.

[atoll]

My first O2 reading was taken at 10am UK time with no photosympathis taking place in fact my understanding that my O2 level will be at its lowest with CO2 at it's highest. Does alage use up CO2 at night I seem to recall it may while giving off CO2? Perhaps somebody could confirm either way.

[tibbsy07]

Photosynthesis can begin as soon as ANY light touches that tank, so unless it's kept in the dark completely until your tank lights come on, the algae in the tank can undergo photosynthesis. Your first reading with no photosynthesis was still supersaturated slightly - was your algae scrubber light going? CO2 will be highest prior to photosynthesis and thus oxygen will be at its lowest, which is in line with your first reading of oxygen being lower prior to photosynthesis beginning. As photosynthesis starts, CO2 drops and oxygen increases, which is what you are seeing. The oxydator corresponds with higher oxygen levels, but the increase in photosynthesis corresponds as well.

[jedimasterben]

My first O2 reading was taken at 10am UK time with no photosympathis taking place in fact my understanding that my O2 level will be at its lowest with CO2 at it's highest. Does alage use up CO2 at night I seem to recall it may while giving off CO2? Perhaps somebody could confirm either way.

All photosynthetic animals absorb CO2 and release O2 when photosynthesizing beyond the capacity they can use, and when the lighting is too low they begin to absorb O2 and release CO2.

[metrokat]

wow.

[atoll]

4th and last test for tonight. I will leave the Oxydator in with 11% peroxide but will check on my return home later before deciding if I should reduce the concentration to 9%. Whichever I will try to test in the morning but I will then be away for a few days returning Sunday.

 

 

I think I can safely say there is yet another increase in O2 levels pushing levels close to dangerous to corals as I would expect with 11% peroxide. The levels I have been recording throughout the day correspond similarly to what I recall many years ago using a Dupla test kit.

 

My algae scrubber has little algae growth in it as said previously possibly down to low nutrient levels and my low KH and mag levels which I am slowly elevating.

All photosynthetic animals absorb CO2 and release O2 when photosynthesizing beyond the capacity they can use, and when the lighting is too low they begin to absorb O2 and release CO2.

and what of algae as that is what I was querying above?

[jedimasterben]

The lighting is very different in all of your pictures and will affect how your eyes see the color in the vial. To get an accurate reading, you need to keep the light constant - maybe in a room with as little natural light as possible and using a desk lamp or something like that will take out that variable.

 

You also didn't really establish a baseline for your tank, which would be the numbers throughout a day without the oxydator (I would also personally try it with the Oxydator being offline for several days previous, then do a day with testing, then add the oxydator, wait several days, then do another day with testing).

[tibbsy07]

Here is my hypothesis to why atoll's levels are out-of-the-gate higher than Rehypes:

 

If you have higher levels of oxygen to start with due to the oxydator only being removed a bit prior to the first reading, a higher level of macroalgae (via scrubber and others in the tank), and any light was touching the tank, photosynthesis could be occurring, driving oxygen levels a bit higher that saturation in your system. That leads to a higher than normal baseline reading. As the oxydator is added your oxygen level drives higher. The oxygen from the oxydator, along with photosynthesis are driving your oxygen level higher, and any peroxide that isn't hydrolyzed efficiently enters the water column, reacting with organic waste resulting in higher CO2 levels, driving photosynthesis even farther along. Your fish and other heterotrophs use some of that oxygen, but there's too much for them to use, hence your reading of supersaturation. Interesting...

[atoll]

The lighting is very different in all of your pictures and will affect how your eyes see the color in the vial. To get an accurate reading, you need to keep the light constant - maybe in a room with as little natural light as possible and using a desk lamp or something like that will take out that variable.

 

You also didn't really establish a baseline for your tank, which would be the numbers throughout a day without the oxydator (I would also personally try it with the Oxydator being offline for several days previous, then do a day with testing, then add the oxydator, wait several days, then do another day with testing).

I gave out my plan on how I intended to test in a previous post but there was little asked to change it apart from waiting longer periods between tests. My understanding you should whenever possible view results under natural light which I have. Maybe I needed to go into a dark room with a known daylight light in it to do comparisons between the results. However that is not possible. I have spent a large portion of the day arranging and doing these tests which would appear to mean little which in truth I kind of come to expect. My tank is full of micro bubbles anybody any idea of what they maybe? My Oxydator is expelling micro bubbles anybody any idea of what they maybe? Seems to me no matter what I do it can't be the fact my Oxydator is upping the O2 levels could it? I have spent the best part of my day at home doing these tests not so much for myself I may add but for those who thought it might be a good idea. Maybe a few more who question the issue as to if the Oxydator increases O2 levels in the aquarium might light to conduct a deatailed set of test using a spectrometer redox meter CO2 and O2 tests kits. Then MAYBE we will get some meaningful results. In the process remove all animal plant and mineral life as these could influence the results as of course they will do but then we have reef tanks and so that would also mean little.

 

Am out for a well earned few beers soon. I will leave you all to debate among yourselves.

[tibbsy07]

I have no doubt that oxygen is released from the oxydator at all. I don't think most people would argue that. The initial discussion was whether or not peroxide itself entered the water column, and Sochting, the developer himself, said it would. You clearly are adding oxygen to the tank through the oxydator. However, bubbles suggest it is not entering the water column as dissolved oxygen, just bubbling to the surface and going away. Clearly there are microbubbles entering the water column as well. I think you have oxygen coming from multiple places, is all I am suggesting.

[Rehype]

The lighting is very different in all of your pictures and will affect how your eyes see the color in the vial. To get an accurate reading, you need to keep the light constant - maybe in a room with as little natural light as possible and using a desk lamp or something like that will take out that variable.

 

You also didn't really establish a baseline for your tank, which would be the numbers throughout a day without the oxydator (I would also personally try it with the Oxydator being offline for several days previous, then do a day with testing, then add the oxydator, wait several days, then do another day with testing).

 

 

This was my concern as well as the white balance is off in all of the photos, each shot is exposed differently based on how much sunlight was available and the shadows are strong within the vial. After downloading them correcting the white balance, shadows and exposure the results all look the same.

 

Im certainly not attacking your results but I was able to take photos in a controlled setting (light box, off camera flash,manual settings etc) and these are important when trying to display accurate color representation.

[Rehype]

 

 

 

Unfortunately in this shot the vial isnt on top of the test sheet

 

[Neill.w]

Nice to see this thread back on track

[albertthiel]

 

 

This was my concern as well as the white balance is off in all of the photos, each shot is exposed differently based on how much sunlight was available and the shadows are strong within the vial. After downloading them correcting the white balance, shadows and exposure the results all look the same.

 

Im certainly not attacking your results but I was able to take photos in a controlled setting (light box, off camera flash,manual settings etc) and these are important when trying to display accurate color representation.

 

Les rather than looking at pics posted on the thread your visual interpretation should tell you whether there is an increase in O2 or not. What is your interpretation of the levels when just looking at the test results directly ?

 

Albert

[CJJon]

I gave out my plan on how I intended to test in a previous post but there was little asked to change it apart from waiting longer periods between tests. My understanding you should whenever possible view results under natural light which I have. Maybe I needed to go into a dark room with a known daylight light in it to do comparisons between the results. However that is not possible. I have spent a large portion of the day arranging and doing these tests which would appear to mean little which in truth I kind of come to expect. My tank is full of micro bubbles anybody any idea of what they maybe? My Oxydator is expelling micro bubbles anybody any idea of what they maybe? Seems to me no matter what I do it can't be the fact my Oxydator is upping the O2 levels could it? I have spent the best part of my day at home doing these tests not so much for myself I may add but for those who thought it might be a good idea. Maybe a few more who question the issue as to if the Oxydator increases O2 levels in the aquarium might light to conduct a deatailed set of test using a spectrometer redox meter CO2 and O2 tests kits. Then MAYBE we will get some meaningful results. In the process remove all animal plant and mineral life as these could influence the results as of course they will do but then we have reef tanks and so that would also mean little.

 

Am out for a well earned few beers soon. I will leave you all to debate among yourselves.

 

Hope you enjoyed the beers! Deserved!

 

Now you see why doing good science is a PITA. Lots of variables need to be taken into account--let's not even talk about bias! Now you see why folks that know how difficult getting meaningful data is push back on others making fantastic claims about something. They are not just being contrary. So please don't take criticisms of your research or suggestions for improving vigor negatively as you seem to come to expect. Indeed, what you are doing means a great deal and I would think all of us here would agree. However, criticism is part of 'doing science'. Ever have an article peer-reviewed? It can seem quite brutal to the uninitiated!

 

Also IMO, you could throw out the color card and just look for a darkening of the test over time. Of course when dealing with colorimetric tests it is always best to have repeatable light conditions. Hell, a closet with a flashlight (torch) would do--as long as it was exactly the same for each reading. A camera with a flash would be good too. All you need to see is the color change of the solution from baseline.

[metrokat]

Les rather than looking at pics posted on the thread your visual interpretation should tell you whether there is an increase in O2 or not. What is your interpretation of the levels when just looking at the test results directly ?

Albert

really? You can visually tell when there is more oxygen in the tank?

 

Edit - oh you mean visually looking at the test results. He posted his visual interpretation. Read back.

[tibbsy07]

 

Hope you enjoyed the beers! Deserved!

 

Now you see why doing good science is a PITA. Lots of variables need to be taken into account--let's not even talk about bias! Now you see why folks that know how difficult getting meaningful data is push back on others making fantastic claims about something. They are not just being contrary. So please don't take criticisms of your research or suggestions for improving vigor negatively as you seem to come to expect. Indeed, what you are doing means a great deal and I would think all of us here would agree. However, criticism is part of 'doing science'. Ever have an article peer-reviewed? It can seem quite brutal to the uninitiated!

 

Also IMO, you could throw out the color card and just look for a darkening of the test over time. Of course when dealing with colorimetric tests it is always best to have repeatable light conditions. Hell, a closet with a flashlight (torch) would do--as long as it was exactly the same for each reading. A camera with a flash would be good too. All you need to see is the color change of the solution from baseline.

Spot on. Science is difficult, and criticism comes in many forms from everywhere. It can be very hard not to take it personally, but you have to disconnect.

[metrokat]

Two members I am aware of who missed out are Kat and Albert Theil (both where given a free unit so neither where in the database)

 

Neill, sorry I didn't comment earlier. I got my Oxydator a couple of years ago from a UK company, unless you've sent me a surprise present that hasn't reached me yet. But no, I already have the nano version.

[Neill.w]

Neill, sorry I didn't comment earlier. I got my Oxydator a couple of years ago from a UK company, unless you've sent me a surprise present that hasn't reached me yet. But no, I already have the nano version.

 

Ahh I had no record of you on my database and figured I must have thrown one in with your nano doser or skimmer order

[albertthiel]

really? You can visually tell when there is more oxygen in the tank?

 

Edit - oh you mean visually looking at the test results. He posted his visual interpretation. Read back.

 

Look at the TESTS Kat once the color has developed

 

[Reefwiser]

Wow a week an no post's.

[jedimasterben]

Wow a week an no post's.

A couple days short of two weeks

[Chrisl1976]

yeah, seems the horse we kept beating died

 

 

Still looking for a link or Ebay seller name for buying the right 6% peroxide (quality product)

I will say I have not had to really clean my glass since about a week after I started using it.