iball1804 Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 As long as it fools me, I don't care what it is. Looks great Kat. Glad to see you out of the shadows Mr. A Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Maybe they may not like it but both TBS and the Instant Ocean salt people did the same thing ... and only sold whatever grew on what they seeded large areas with ... since they could indeed not harvest what was already there, but as I found out the rock was full of all kinds of life forms that would die off during the cycle and IME had a lot of undesirable worms in it (in fact I used to put the rock out on plastic sheets and try to remove as many bristle worms and other undesirables as I could before even putting the rock in tubs to cycle it). Is there anything wrong with that rock .. no not really but it just has to be handled differently that much cleaner rock e.g. from the Pacific and say Indian Ocean. Other than that that rock will yield the same effects in the long run so I do not want to discourage anyone from buying it just alert them to the difference between that one and rock from other areas of the world (esp. the Pacific). Albert I'm sure TBS would love that you're telling people on here they dump "concrete" in the water and let it colonize. Should educate yourself before you make statements like that, jus sayin... TBS, the History... Quote Link to comment
MrAnderson Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 I'm sure TBS would love that you're telling people on here they dump "concrete" in the water and let it colonize. Should educate yourself before you make statements like that, jus sayin... TBS, the History... that's kinda what the story says... i said concrete or terrestrial rock. the story says they use terrestrial coral rock, dumped in the ocean to colonize. there's even a great story about how the crane's boom broke when they were dumping. perhaps i confused them with a vendor that uses concrete but that's a minor detail. should educate yourself before you make statements like that, jus sayin... Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 I have to agree that this is a great thread and one that is far better than what some other forums offer although my statement is not based on recent experience but on the ones I got a few years ago when I was actively following other ones than this one. Great thread with great people talking about what we all love : aquariums large and small and even smaller like the picos and the tiny ones (as in 1 gallon or even less) Albert god i haven't been outside the lounge in years. feels weird discussing things like a normal human, all civil and ####. whoops. Quote Link to comment
iball1804 Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 that's kinda what the story says... i said concrete or terrestrial rock. the story says they use terrestrial coral rock, dumped in the ocean to colonize. there's even a great story about how the crane's boom broke when they were dumping. perhaps i confused them with a vendor that uses concrete but that's a minor detail. should educate yourself before you make statements like that, jus sayin.... Exactly. Maybe they confused "concrete" with "rock." They can be synonymous, correct? Considering concrete is 90% rock... Quote Link to comment
TeflonTomDosh Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 that's kinda what the story says... i said concrete or terrestrial rock. the story says they use terrestrial coral rock, dumped in the ocean to colonize. there's even a great story about how the crane's boom broke when they were dumping. perhaps i confused them with a vendor that uses concrete but that's a minor detail. should educate yourself before you make statements like that, jus sayin... Actually you said TBS uses concrete and some other companies use terrestrial rock. Either way...this is what their website states "Well a lot of years had passed since we started our endeavors of being live rock farmers, and we had finally reached the point of having a permit to actually place our seed rock in The Gulf of Mexico! We had located a source of good quality reef rock from a company called Dravo right here in our home town of Tampa. I had originally spoken with the foreman, a nice guy named Reease, who told me of their operation in the Bahamas digging and widening the canals in Freeport. The byproduct was beautiful coral rock that they were going to bring into Tampa on a 600 foot container ship." Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Fully agree and the greater majority of what I have seen are posts that stick to the topics that everyone is interested in and that is just great and a compliment I would like to give to all who are on this thread on NR. Albert Best thread on NR. Quote Link to comment
MrAnderson Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Exactly. Maybe they confused "concrete" with "rock." They can be synonymous, correct? Considering concrete is 90% rock... to be fair, i wouldn't consider coral rock mined terrestrially the same as concrete chunks. but then if we're splitting that sort of hair, neither would coral rock mined terrestrially and then dumped to colonize be synonymous with natural live rock. either way, albert is correct and i've seen BEAUTIFUL live rock from TBS. Quote Link to comment
TeflonTomDosh Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 to be fair, i wouldn't consider coral rock mined terrestrially the same as concrete chunks. but then if we're splitting that sort of hair, neither would coral rock mined terrestrially and then dumped to colonize be synonymous with natural live rock. either way, albert is correct and i've seen BEAUTIFUL live rock from TBS. +1 Quote Link to comment
metrokat Posted June 5, 2012 Author Share Posted June 5, 2012 i meant, did they tell you how it was made? since it's illegal to collect and sell live rock anywhere off florida or caribbean reefs, companies that sell live rock from there make it in a variety of ways. \ My rock is from gulfliverock.com, they state: "All of our live rock comes from our personal Federal Aquaculture Lease site located 10 miles offshore in the Gulf of Mexico. All of our rock was planted on the ocean floor in 1994. " So I would imagine it is the same as TBS, perhaps the 'kind' of rock they use is different. I have 2 batches from them and both come with ultra porus and dense rock suggesting the source of the rock is varied. Some more macro shots showing different porosities and textures of this rock Best thread on NR. Thanks to Albert. god i haven't been outside the lounge in years. feels weird discussing things like a normal human, all civil and ####. whoops. lol. As long as it fools me, I don't care what it is. Looks great Kat. Thanks Ballzee. I say I'm the purveyor of the real purple. My rock IS purple ain't it? Quote Link to comment
MrAnderson Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 cool. it's really a minor point, and your rock is gorgeous. i was just curious about density (and lower porosity) and how you see your cycle working, both initially and with livestock addition. it was more of a technical curiosity, microbiologically. it does the job, functionally and aesthetically. and honestly, you're being more environmentally conscious by getting that instead of "wild-caught". (watch the hands ) Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Since I have not bought rock from anyone if FL for a very long time I am not sure what type of material they use to see the live rock they sell but as Metrokat shows and states some is dense and some is far more porous so there has obviously been a change in the type of rock you will get and that is good. I personally prefer the porous one and imagine those who read this do too. Lots more types of bacteria and other tiny life forms can colonize the porous variety but having a few denser rock is to going to hurt the tank. I just would suggest that the balance should be skewed towards the more porous one. FWIW Albert My rock is from gulfliverock.com, they state: "All of our live rock comes from our personal Federal Aquaculture Lease site located 10 miles offshore in the Gulf of Mexico. All of our rock was planted on the ocean floor in 1994. "So I would imagine it is the same as TBS, perhaps the 'kind' of rock they use is different. I have 2 batches from them and both come with ultra porus and dense rock suggesting the source of the rock is varied. Some more macro shots showing different porosities and textures of this rock Thanks to Albert. lol. Thanks Ballzee. I say I'm the purveyor of the real purple. My rock IS purple ain't it? Quote Link to comment
metrokat Posted June 5, 2012 Author Share Posted June 5, 2012 I was a bit over zealous in my calls to the vendor begging him to "make sure" there was no mantis in the rock. I opened my box and there, carefully laid out was a dead baby mantis, the first thing I would see when I opened. Dan at gulfliverock has received many customers through me, and he hand picked the shapes and sizes of the rocks I got too. I had explained what I was looking for because I had planned the rock structure in my mind beforehand. Quote Link to comment
MrAnderson Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 omg! that reminds me, the first shipment i got after getting back from indonesia i used for scrapings, then set up a display tank in one of the teaching labs. i kept adding livestock that would disappear - a clown, some peppermint shrimp, some other doodads. after NINE MONTHS of this crap, i thought i had a reefer-thief student or something creeping up in my spot. then one day i saw a HUGE lobster tail (like, 3-4" across) disappearing into a hole in the rock. i eventually fished out an 8" mantis. my hands had spent A LOT of time in that tank. the rock had been out of water and scraped multiple times... BANANAS! Quote Link to comment
Nano sapiens Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Since I have not bought rock from anyone if FL for a very long time I am not sure what type of material they use to see the live rock they sell but as Metrokat shows and states some is dense and some is far more porous so there has obviously been a change in the type of rock you will get and that is good. I personally prefer the porous one and imagine those who read this do too. Lots more types of bacteria and other tiny life forms can colonize the porous variety but having a few denser rock is to going to hurt the tank. I just would suggest that the balance should be skewed towards the more porous one. FWIW Albert Over the past 15 years I had collected LR from many different sources. When I started my Nano, I grabbed (5) of the smaller pieces from my 50g. I found out recently that one of them was solid concrete when I tried to remove excess Discosoma mushrooms and the screwdriver tip bent out of shape. So Albert is correct, having a piece or two of non porous rock with the majority being porous should work fine. The only caveat I can think of is if a tank has no SB, minimal LR and no additional porous material that bacteria can colonize, then you'd want the most porous rock possible. Quote Link to comment
iball1804 Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 i eventually fished out an 8" mantis. my hands had spent A LOT of time in that tank. the rock had been out of water and scraped multiple times... BANANAS! What the... And here I was scared of the Harlequin Tusk we unloaded yesterday at my LFS! Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Even with the best will in the world a supplier cannot predict what will crawl out of the rock as I am sure we all understand so finding something we did not expect is not unusual and that is why I always used to lay the rock out on large plastic sheets and let it sit for a few hours and let whatever wanted to crawl out come out of the little spaces and holes in the rocks ... and then I would just catch whatever had come out with a pair of tweezers and dispose of it ... usually the undesirables were more than likely worms that I did not want and rarely a M shrimp but that did not really happen to me often that I can remember. My only concern in those days in addition to critters was indeed the porosity level and at the beginning what I was getting out of FL was rather dense but from what I read in a previous post that seems to have changed ... and that is good. Albert I was a bit over zealous in my calls to the vendor begging him to "make sure" there was no mantis in the rock. I opened my box and there, carefully laid out was a dead baby mantis, the first thing I would see when I opened. Dan at gulfliverock has received many customers through me, and he hand picked the shapes and sizes of the rocks I got too. I had explained what I was looking for because I had planned the rock structure in my mind beforehand. Quote Link to comment
MrAnderson Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 What the... And here I was scared of the Harlequin Tusk we unloaded yesterday at my LFS! i'll deal, this stuff is from some incredible backwoods indonesian reefs. it's worth the risk. Quote Link to comment
iball1804 Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 You'd need some stitches after a bite from that thing. Holy juicebox. Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Beautiful fish but as stated already nasty bite if it had been able to catch your finger but what a lovely fish it is indeed. Love it nearly as much as a Picasso Trigger. Albert i'll deal, this stuff is from some incredible backwoods indonesian reefs. it's worth the risk. Quote Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 omg! that reminds me, the first shipment i got after getting back from indonesia i used for scrapings, then set up a display tank in one of the teaching labs. i kept adding livestock that would disappear - a clown, some peppermint shrimp, some other doodads. after NINE MONTHS of this crap, i thought i had a reefer-thief student or something creeping up in my spot. then one day i saw a HUGE lobster tail (like, 3-4" across) disappearing into a hole in the rock. i eventually fished out an 8" mantis. my hands had spent A LOT of time in that tank. the rock had been out of water and scraped multiple times... BANANAS! Definitely dodged a bullet there! Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 An 8 inch one ... that is a "monster" and would for sure have cleaned out your aquarium if not caught. Fortunately even though your hands were in the tank a lot you did not get your finger half sliced off It is amazing indeed what we sometimes find in our tanks that we never knew was there to begin with as often the undesirables start off small and grow and grown and do more and more damage till caught. Albert Definitely dodged a bullet there! Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Here's a link to a Clown Trigger fish, another one of my favorites ... http://saltwater.tropicalfishandaquariums....Triggerfish.asp Albert i'll deal, this stuff is from some incredible backwoods indonesian reefs. it's worth the risk. And here is a link to a couple of hundred pics of Clown Triggers for those interested http://images.google.com/search?tbm=isch&a...0.0.Ysdfh8wK3Wc Albert i'll deal, this stuff is from some incredible backwoods indonesian reefs. it's worth the risk. Quote Link to comment
ZephNYC Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 It is amazing indeed what we sometimes find in our tanks that we never knew was there to begin with as often the undesirables start off small and grow and grown and do more and more damage till caught. Albert Discovered: 'Barry' the sea worm had been nestling under coral reef, attacking it and fish, at Newquay's Blue Reef Aquarium in Cornwall Quote Link to comment
metrokat Posted June 6, 2012 Author Share Posted June 6, 2012 stop scaring me zeph! Ethan posted a link to it and made me mad already. Quote Link to comment
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