metrokat Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share Posted July 14, 2012 Here is a quote of Eric Bornemann : and the link to the article is http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-12/eb/index.php but you will need to scroll down quite a bit to get to the Caulerpa and macro-algae part : Quote I am not in any way condemning the use of macroalgae in refugia. I am very fond of many of them, although many have quite numerous and toxic secondary metabolites, like soft corals and sponges. In particular, I am very unfond of Caulerpa (Figure 5). It is invasive and very difficult to eradicate. It is toxic to fish and has many metabolites - and releases them when the organism degenerates during spawning. Acidic rhizomes etch carbonate (Figure 6) and these algae can kill other more desirable species by overgrowth. I have had it grow right through the stalks of soft corals. Many aquarists say that it has not been a problem for them. My response? Just wait. It will. I guess my big question regarding Caulerpa is why use it at all when so many more desirable species of macroalgae exist, like Chaetomorpha species, or others (Figures 7 & 8). Unquote It's a very long article ... Did you also know that it is illegal in California to import and/or sell certain types of Caulerpa ... See : http://www.sccat.net/#aquarists-1e86f1 for more details on the reasons and the prohibitions and fines for those who do not abide by those laws. Albert Thank you Albert yes I did know it was illegal in California. And as I keep telling Zeph: I do not have caulerpa so I will just skip reading the long article. Thank you for the excerpt though. Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Thank you Albert yes I did know it was illegal in California. And as I keep telling Zeph: I do not have caulerpa so I will just skip reading the long article. Thank you for the excerpt though. Understood just wanted to validate what Zeph posted about Caulerpa ... Also there are so many species (check Wikipedia) that to be really accurate one would have to mention species. E.g. C. racemosa is more toxic in aquariums than other types etc ... as the list of which ones are good, bad or indifferent is long ... My rec. is not to keep Caulerpa but to use, as most hobs do, Chaetomorpha and Ochtodes and I think that is what you have in your fuge ... so you should be OK IMO the reason for the browning of your corals has to do with the lighting and the UV (a,b or c) that is being emitted and that may be harming your SPS's. You may want to do some more searches on the Net of the effect of the various types of UV light that your bulbs are emitting and how that changes as the bulbs age and may be putting out noxious UV that getting your SPS's to either change their zooxanthellae, expel some, change color as a result of the PAR and more so the PUR of your lighting system. FWIW Albert Quote Link to comment
metrokat Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share Posted July 14, 2012 Understood just wanted to validate what Zeph posted about Caulerpa ... Also there are so many species (check Wikipedia) that to be really accurate one would have to mention species. E.g. C. racemosa is more toxic in aquariums than other types etc ... as the list of which ones are good, bad or indifferent is long ... My rec. is not to keep Caulerpa but to use, as most hobs do, Chaetomorpha and Ochtodes and I think that is what you have in your fuge ... so you should be OK IMO the reason for the browning of your corals has to do with the lighting and the UV (a,b or c) that is being emitted and that may be harming your SPS's. You may want to do some more searches on the Net of the effect of the various types of UV light that your bulbs are emitting and how that changes as the bulbs age and may be putting out noxious UV that getting your SPS's to either change their zooxanthellae, expel some, change color as a result of the PAR and more so the PUR of your lighting system. FWIW Albert I don't have chaeto either. Getting new bulbs so I'm going to watch if that makes a difference. I have T5s and LEDs which are standard and don't cause browning for other people, not even for all the SPS I have. the browning is in only a few, not my entire tank, remember my pink birdsnest. I still think it is water chemistry. I have personal experience with poor light and the effect on SPS in my tank with my husbandry practices, this does not mimic that. The speed of the browning suggests water chemistry. Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I don't have chaeto either.Getting new bulbs so I'm going to watch if that makes a difference. I have T5s and LEDs which are standard and don't cause browning for other people, not even for all the SPS I have. the browning is in only a few, not my entire tank, remember my pink birdsnest. I still think it is water chemistry. I have personal experience with poor light and the effect on SPS in my tank with my husbandry practices, this does not mimic that. The speed of the browning suggests water chemistry. If you suspect the water quality Kat, what in particular are you concerned about, meaning what to you think that may be wrong with it ? Nitrates, phosphates, or anything else? What I have seen happening in the past is that people who use chemical filtration but do not change it on a regular basis find that when it is saturated that it starts to re-release what it has uptaken into the water, of course unbeknownst to the hobbyists, and does put toxic waste into the tank. Not saying that is the case for you but just pointing it out. I guess time will tell what it actually is : the lights, or the water quality. Albert Quote Link to comment
metrokat Posted July 15, 2012 Author Share Posted July 15, 2012 If you suspect the water quality Kat, what in particular are you concerned about, meaning what to you think that may be wrong with it ? Nitrates, phosphates, or anything else? What I have seen happening in the past is that people who use chemical filtration but do not change it on a regular basis find that when it is saturated that it starts to re-release what it has uptaken into the water, of course unbeknownst to the hobbyists, and does put toxic waste into the tank. Not saying that is the case for you but just pointing it out. I guess time will tell what it actually is : the lights, or the water quality. Albert I think it could be both Nitrates and phosphates. They are undetectable in my test kits, I am also using a phos reactor. As for nitrates, I've actually been wanting some, and it is possible I have them. Then again the proof is contradictory. The macro algae guys on this forum suggest I have zero nitrates because I am unable to keep green macros alive, they melt on me. The halimeda in my system is calcium based algae so it's not the same thing. This was over 2 months ago when I did have chaeto in the tank. They suggested the chaeto was sucking up all the nitrates so out came the chaeto. Quote Link to comment
metrokat Posted July 15, 2012 Author Share Posted July 15, 2012 Back to the macro question- again, I could be wrong, but I feel the effect of macro, regardless of species, on stony coral is tissue death, not browning. Thanks Kris. A snapshot of a timeline: Took skimmer off line at Easter (early April) in it's 3rd month of use. It was barely pulling anything. Was feeding heavy, had a phosphate problem. Zero nitrates. Was not doing regular water changes. Most corals were doing fabulous. Added a nasuta and red planet both of which did poorly. Green Millepora was very green. Added a reactor with rowaphos in May Phosphates read zero. Nitrate still zero. Drastically reduced feeding. Doing weekly water changes Green Millipora (and others) browning. Quote Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Have you noticed a marked reduction in macro growth after adding the phosphate reactor? Quote Link to comment
metrokat Posted July 15, 2012 Author Share Posted July 15, 2012 Have you noticed a marked reduction in macro growth after adding the phosphate reactor? It might be the opposite, the blue ochtodes and red grape which are the 2 main non calcareous display algae I have in the DT finally got healthy and started to grow. I PM'd my friend Josh (Drunken Monk) who sent me both these macros: From Kat: Hey you How is everything? I had a question for you. Is it impossible to keep SPS especially acros in a tank with Macros? Some are suggesting that having macros will either kill SPS or cause them to brown. Is there somewhere I can go to read on this? I would really appreciate your opinion too. Thanks! Kat From Josh: Hey kat, Ive taken my tank down atm, going to set up an sps tank in a couple months. Sps will kill macros if they are in contact with them or very close in my experience. But I was growing macros and sps in the same tank and didnt have a problem with it other than bits touching the sps that would die off. I never had any acros brown out with the macros so Im not sure. I mean many people keep a refugium with macros in them with their sps tanks. How are the macros doing that I sent ya? Josh Interesting to note, for about a week, the red grape has been touching the ORA green bird in my tank, and the bits that touched it have turned white (dead). So it seems that it is not the macros harming the SPS, it is the other way around. Quote Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 It might be the opposite, the blue ochtodes and red grape which are the 2 main non calcareous display algae I have in the DT finally got healthy and started to grow. something is very fishy about this. Quote Link to comment
drunkenmonk21 Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 (edited) I think it could be more likely that your softies are irritating your Sps. The only macros I have read about releasing chemicals while alive is caulerpa which you don't have. No matter what, a system is going to produce nutrients which is why you take measures to eliminate them. If your reading zeros that's because your algae and other exporting measures are taking them out as they are produced. Soft coral on the otherhand can be harmful to Sps Edited July 15, 2012 by drunkenmonk21 Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 I think it could be both Nitrates and phosphates. They are undetectable in my test kits, I am also using a phos reactor. As for nitrates, I've actually been wanting some, and it is possible I have them. Then again the proof is contradictory. The macro algae guys on this forum suggest I have zero nitrates because I am unable to keep green macros alive, they melt on me. The halimeda in my system is calcium based algae so it's not the same thing. This was over 2 months ago when I did have chaeto in the tank. They suggested the chaeto was sucking up all the nitrates so out came the chaeto. So is all you have left Halimeda sp. ? If it is not the water quality then I guess lights maybe the "suspect" and I believe you said you are changing/replacing those. It will be interesting to see what happens when you change the lighting and put new bulbs in. Other than that I am sure you are using carbon and/or chemipure or similar so phenols etc. would not be the issue either. Patience is I suspect recommended then till you change the lighting and you see what happens Albert FWIW Quote Link to comment
msscha Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 But I can't seem to find a cat spoon anywhere. You know, the spoon you use to scoop out canned food, has a special shape to it to get every sliver of food from the can? I always thought this was called the cat's tongue ! Quote Link to comment
metrokat Posted July 16, 2012 Author Share Posted July 16, 2012 I always thought this was called the cat's tongue ! Quote Link to comment
ScubaEthan Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Did you also know that it is illegal in California to import and/or sell certain types of Caulerpa ... It is also illegal in my tank haha Proof it is evil and invasive. But then again, California does have weird laws. Hi Kat! Quote Link to comment
ZephNYC Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 It is also illegal in my tank haha Proof it is evil and invasive. But then again, California does have weird laws. Hi Kat! My favorite fish med formulin is also illegal in Ca. I have friend out there that ask me for it all the time. Quote Link to comment
altolamprologus Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 My favorite fish med formulin is also illegal in Ca. I have friend out there that ask me for it all the time. Since when is formalin illegal? We use it at work all the time and I used to use it in a science class Quote Link to comment
metrokat Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 Hi Kat! Hi Scooby! I was gonna txt you. How goes the sale? Quote Link to comment
ZephNYC Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) Since when is formalin illegal? We use it at work all the time and I used to use it in a science class I could swear it used to be!!!?? I remember Foster and Smith would not ship it to Ca, so I would get it for my friend. That was many years ago though. You Dont recall anything like that? Im talking about the pure 99% formulin, not the malachitegreen/formulin mixtures Edit: Why do I always get in trouble on this thread? Edited July 17, 2012 by ZephNYC Quote Link to comment
altolamprologus Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I could swear it used to be!!!?? I remember Foster and Smith would not ship it to Ca, so I would get it for my friend. That was many years ago though. You Dont recall anything like that? Im talking about the pure 99% formulin, not the malachitegreen/formulin mixtures Oh ok that makes more sense. We use the malachite green/formalin mix. And I think school labs have special privileges to use it for preserving stuff. Quote Link to comment
ZephNYC Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) Oh ok that makes more sense. We use the malachite green/formalin mix. And I think school labs have special privileges to use it for preserving stuff. I just did a search and found this, see im not crazy! formalin/malachite solutions are probably too dangerous and may well be disallowed by law in your area, they are in California. Edited July 17, 2012 by ZephNYC Quote Link to comment
altolamprologus Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I just did a search and found this, see im not crazy! formalin/malachite solutions are probably too dangerous and may well be disallowed by law in your area, they are in California. California just likes making stuff illegal. I swear there's a panel of people sitting around a big desk with fancy suits coffee mugs deciding which thing to outlaw next. Then they laugh in joy at the sorrow and outrage of the people. Ok I'm done now. Oh Zeph, I might be getting 30 crocea clams at work tomorrow Quote Link to comment
ZephNYC Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Oh Zeph, I might be getting 30 crocea clams at work tomorrow You could be my next bad romance. Quote Link to comment
metrokat Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 Edit: Why do I always get in trouble on this thread? Because a saucy reefer owns this thread and yo azz. You could be my next bad romance. Behave yourself, this story is supposed to end without clam deaths. Quote Link to comment
ZephNYC Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Because a saucy reefer owns this thread and yo azz. ROFLMAO!!!! YOU ARE SO OVER MY KNEE WHEN I SEE YOU! Quote Link to comment
metrokat Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 ROFLMAO!!!! YOU ARE SO OVER MY KNEE WHEN I SEE YOU! pffft! "IF" I see you. Quote Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.