Kat's Ol' Max

[metrokat]

Also, I was mentioning my friend KG's system, some pics are below. Note, no water changes in over a year, doses KALK, no skimmer.

 

His 90G DT

 

Fuge #1 16G mangrove and chaeto channel

 

Fuge #2 40B the caulerpa fuge

[metrokat]

This system looks quite old, therefor perfectly balanced.

Define "quite old" ?

[ZephNYC]

Define "quite old" ?

 

It looks atleast 2 years old and has had plenty of time to balance out. It probably would NOT work so well if she did water changes.

[metrokat]

It looks atleast 2 years old and has had plenty of time to balance out. It probably would NOT work so well if she did water changes.

Kris's system was born in March 2011. Barely a year old.

[ZephNYC]

Kris's system was born in March 2011. Barely a year old.

 

I dont see any nice sps colonies though?? any in there beside the easy to keep?

[metrokat]

I dont see any nice sps colonies though?? any in there beside the easy to keep?

From Birdsnests to montiporas, to acros, about 50 or more SPS

 

I would not reference a softies tank Zeph. This is about SPS thriving with macros discussion.

 

Also please note I don;t have any "nice SPS colonies" that are browning, I have 2 which are thriving: the ORA Bird and the Pink Bird. The rest are frags some of which have the browning issue.

[ZephNYC]

From Birdsnests to montiporas, to acros, about 50 or more SPS

 

I would not reference a softies tank Zeph. This is about SPS thriving with macros discussion.

 

Also please note I don;t have any "nice SPS colonies" that are browning, I have 2 which are thriving: the ORA Bird and the Pink Bird. The rest are frags some of which have the browning issue.

 

i barely see any sps in there at all. montis and birdnest are easy. I can keep them alive in a wet pocket.

[metrokat]

i barely see any sps in there at all. montis and birdnest are easy. I can keep them alive in a wet pocket.

 

 

Let's focus. We aren't talking about keeping something alive, all my SPS are alive too, lol, we are talking about a loss of color and browning out. You claim the macros have something to do with it, I showed you a real live current example of a reef that is young, thriving, with the same SPS that I have. With bucket loads more macros than I have, especially a 40B full of the dreaded caulerpa you just mentioned.

 

I'm showing you proof that such a system works. Kris colors are outstanding, even in his keep alive in a wet pocket SPS. Don't scoff. I'm not about to keep colonies of nasuta or red planet. I simply want the SPS I have to be colorful. This is not a discussion about the kitchen sink.

Edited July 14, 2012 by metrokat

[kgoldy]

Zeph is right, birdsnest and montis are the only SPS that are really thriving in my tank. Most of my acro dies within two weeks of going in the tank.

 

Kat is also right, he system was born March 2011.

[patback]

Kat, put your claws away!

 

Zeph, put your.. UHH

 

 

 

 

I'll get back to that. Just put it away!

[jedimasterben]

This is not a discussion about the kitchen sink.

It is now.

 

 

 

 

kgoldy, do you run carbon? Do you, kat?

[ZephNYC]

Zeph is right, birdsnest and montis are the only SPS that are really thriving in my tank. Most of my acro dies within two weeks of going in the tank.

 

Kat is also right, he system was born March 2011.

 

thank you

[metrokat]

kgoldy, do you run carbon? Do you, kat?

I run carbon

 

Zeph is right, birdsnest and montis are the only SPS that are really thriving in my tank. Most of my acro dies within two weeks of going in the tank.

 

Kat is also right, he system was born March 2011.

And have you lost color in the SPS you have, (montis and birds), as I have?

[patback]

It is now.

 

 

 

 

kgoldy, do you run carbon? Do you, kat?

Thats a nice kitchen. Yours?

[metrokat]

Kat, put your claws away!

 

Zeph, put your.. UHH

I'll get back to that. Just put it away!

Claws? You mean put my brain away?

Don't let my heels fool you Pat.

 

Thats a nice kitchen. Yours?

I was about to ask the same thing! It's gorgeous.

[patback]

Lol, I was trying to be punny. Your name is kat and you are a girl soo... Idk. Guess its not that funny

[jedimasterben]

Thats a nice kitchen. Yours?

Psh, I wish. Google Image Search.

[metrokat]

Lol, I was trying to be punny. Your name is kat and you are a girl soo... Idk. Guess its not that funny

awww.

You just can't see my brain when I display such fabulous heels.

 

Psh, I wish. Google Image Search.

Thanks for killing my endorphins. I worked very hard at spin today and you just killed my buzz.

Edited July 14, 2012 by metrokat

[patback]

I feel like you wear stilletos to spin class. .

My girlfriend has a new obbsession, she bought like 5new pairs of sandals at seperate times through out the past 2 weeks. Some she's only worn 2 of them and were all 40 bucks or better, she is no longer allowed to complain about my fishtank. Perfect timing also fr when I start buying little things for the new build.

 

I was on my way to home depot last night for some wood to build my stand, but being a typical American I got McDonald's, went home, played call of duty, a round of croquet, then went to bed instead.

Edited July 14, 2012 by patback

[LongPig]

I feel like you wear stilletos to spin class. .

My girlfriend has a new obbsession, she bought like 5new pairs of sandals at seperate times through out the past 2 weeks. Some she's only worn 2 of them and were all 40 bucks or better, she is no longer allowed to complain about my fishtank. Perfect timing also fr when I start buying little things for the new build.

 

I was on my way to home depot last night for some wood to build my stand, but being a typical American I got McDonald's, went home, played call of duty, a round of croquet, then went to bed instead.

Dude my girlfriend has 27 pairs of black heels alone. She has 142 pairs of shoes. I just let her buy because I NEVER hear a negative comment about my aquarium spending. I'm up to three tanks even though she is up to three jewelry boxes... She has at least five dresses in her closet with the tags on them. Wait...am I really winning here? Hey at least we both like guns and can at least share them. I'll keep telling myself that at least that's something.

[kgoldy]

Bah. Clicked "log off" instead of "sign off" and lost a paragraph.

 

 

Anyway- I have run carbon... twice. Tossed in a bag after going to town on some palys and filling the tank with palytoxin a couple times.

 

Last time I checked my P04 was at like 695462 (and my SPS were still looking great), then Kat saw the numbers and freaked out, so I stopped checking it.

 

While yes, most of my happy SPS are monti and birds, I also have some of (what I am told are) super sensitive stuff like JF Turaki, Lokani and Evergreen Acro that are all growing great from near single polyp frags. Because I don't test my water, and I frequently have losses while on one to two week long vacations, I never really know if it's just a light/flow issue, or if it's water quality... or if it's 5 gallons of kalkwasser that my tank sitters always dump in my tank.

 

 

Back to the macro killing coral- I think it's a reefkeeping article that explains it... though I just spend the last 5 minutes googling, and didn't find it... (I was googling "reefkeeping macro kill"... try googling "chemical warfare" in combination with "macro" "algae" or something...)

 

Simplified, it's this- Macro and coral are in direct competition for sun and space on the reef. They *both* excrete chemical growth inhibitors/poisons in order to keep the other at bay. Different species of macro kill eachother (in my experience, green grape caulerpa kills chaeto FAST) as do different coral species. Charcoal helps with this, that's the reason most people have it in their tanks. Remember JF's charcoal reactor and how happy his frags looked?

 

 

Zeph is right, caulerpa is evil ####... It just grows too damn fast for me to get it out of the bottom fuge for good.

 

 

 

 

Allll that being said... speaking from my experience, I don't think macro is causing your browning problem. When (I think) my macro is killing SPS, I get tissue necrosis, not browning.

 

As for lighting, the only thing I've ever dealt with is LEDs... so I can't comment on that...

 

 

What I think it could be is not a "water quailty" issue, it's probably the shift in the system since you added the fuge. I would try not to be reactionary and go changing all sorts of stuff, as you'll probably be more likely to cause stress and do damage. If the lighting, the flow, and your test results are all the same as they always were, just give it some more time and see if the coloration comes back. Browning does not equal death, so don't freak out.

[metrokat]

Bah. Clicked "log off" instead of "sign off" and lost a paragraph.

 

Anyway- I have run carbon... twice. Tossed in a bag after going to town on some palys and filling the tank with palytoxin a couple times.

 

Last time I checked my P04 was at like 695462 (and my SPS were still looking great), then Kat saw the numbers and freaked out, so I stopped checking it.

 

While yes, most of my happy SPS are monti and birds, I also have some of (what I am told are) super sensitive stuff like JF Turaki, Lokani and Evergreen Acro that are all growing great from near single polyp frags. Because I don't test my water, and I frequently have losses while on one to two week long vacations, I never really know if it's just a light/flow issue, or if it's water quality... or if it's 5 gallons of kalkwasser that my tank sitters always dump in my tank.

 

Back to the macro killing coral- I think it's a reefkeeping article that explains it... though I just spend the last 5 minutes googling, and didn't find it... (I was googling "reefkeeping macro kill"... try googling "chemical warfare" in combination with "macro" "algae" or something...)

 

Simplified, it's this- Macro and coral are in direct competition for sun and space on the reef. They *both* excrete chemical growth inhibitors/poisons in order to keep the other at bay. Different species of macro kill eachother (in my experience, green grape caulerpa kills chaeto FAST) as do different coral species. Charcoal helps with this, that's the reason most people have it in their tanks. Remember JF's charcoal reactor and how happy his frags looked?

 

Zeph is right, caulerpa is evil ####... It just grows too damn fast for me to get it out of the bottom fuge for good.

 

Allll that being said... speaking from my experience, I don't think macro is causing your browning problem. When (I think) my macro is killing SPS, I get tissue necrosis, not browning.

 

As for lighting, the only thing I've ever dealt with is LEDs... so I can't comment on that...

 

What I think it could be is not a "water quailty" issue, it's probably the shift in the system since you added the fuge. I would try not to be reactionary and go changing all sorts of stuff, as you'll probably be more likely to cause stress and do damage. If the lighting, the flow, and your test results are all the same as they always were, just give it some more time and see if the coloration comes back. Browning does not equal death, so don't freak out.

Thanks for the details. I get freaked out by your salt creep too.

 

So what you are telling me is that while caulerpa and chaeto are the strongest competition (for each other) and for my corals for nutrients (both of which I don't have BTW), these macros do not exist in my system, that the macros are not causing the browning in the Birdsnest and montiporas and millepora.

 

You know me, I only go coral crazy but I rarely do anything else on impulse without lots of study. So this is what I am doing:

 

1. New bulbs for the T5, these are due anyway

2. Skimmer comes on line this week

3. Ordered a test kit from aquariumwatertesting.com

4. Research KALK (answer my SMS!!)

[metrokat]

I feel like you wear stilletos to spin class. .

My girlfriend has a new obbsession, she bought like 5new pairs of sandals at seperate times through out the past 2 weeks. Some she's only worn 2 of them and were all 40 bucks or better, she is no longer allowed to complain about my fishtank. Perfect timing also fr when I start buying little things for the new build.

 

I was on my way to home depot last night for some wood to build my stand, but being a typical American I got McDonald's, went home, played call of duty, a round of croquet, then went to bed instead.

my spin instructor would die! Zeph would die too, he txted me yesterday "are you going to the gym or what?"

I spent an hour on my tank yesterday (actually my sump). Installed the ATO with a lovely plastic gallon distilled water container as my ghetto reservoir. I have this eggcrate cover on it which has the light resting, and it cuts me up everytime I get my hands in there which is a lot. So I might dremel it smooth today.

 

Dude my girlfriend has 27 pairs of black heels alone. She has 142 pairs of shoes. I just let her buy because I NEVER hear a negative comment about my aquarium spending. I'm up to three tanks even though she is up to three jewelry boxes... She has at least five dresses in her closet with the tags on them. Wait...am I really winning here? Hey at least we both like guns and can at least share them. I'll keep telling myself that at least that's something.

She's a keeper Piggy!!! Build her a shoe closet already! In the house I used to have, I had sliding frosted glass doors on my shoe closet and lights! and a pretty little stool next to it.

[kgoldy]

Thanks for the details. I get freaked out by your salt creep too.

 

So what you are telling me is that while caulerpa and chaeto are the strongest competition (for each other) and for my corals for nutrients (both of which I don't have BTW), these macros do not exist in my system, that the macros are not causing the browning in the Birdsnest and montiporas and millepora.

 

You know me, I only go coral crazy but I rarely do anything else on impulse without lots of study. So this is what I am doing:

 

1. New bulbs for the T5, these are due anyway

2. Skimmer comes on line this week

3. Ordered a test kit from aquariumwatertesting.com

4. Research KALK (answer my SMS!!)

 

SMS-

Hey Kris do you have a powerhead or ailine keeping the kalk from settling in the ATO water/container?

 

 

I might have some of the science wrong, it's been a while since I did a refresher... Everything you need to know about Lime can can be found here.

 

No, I do not disturb the kalk once it is mixed and dumped into the ATO reservoir. When you disturb kalkwasser (aka lime water), Carbon Dioxide in the air quickly neutralizes it, lowering it's pH, causing the calcium to precipitate... or something. When you have an ATO you'll get a film on top of the water (where CO2 bonded with calcium) that protects the rest of the kalkwasser from being neutralized. You want to allow this film to remain in place, no matter how ugly you feel it is. Try to get a close-to-airtight lid to go on top of the reservoir.

 

 

I don't understand kalk reactors, so I can't tell you why it's okay to disturb the lime in them. Again, just read the article in the above link.

 

 

Back to the macro question- again, I could be wrong, but I feel the effect of macro, regardless of species, on stony coral is tissue death, not browning.

[albertthiel]

Fair enough. Does he list the species?

Also, what is considered a "large population", does he specify?

 

In my total system volume of about 50 gallons, I could fill about 2 gallon zip lock bags with my macros. I would never consider that a large population but I'm curious to see what 'specifics' and measurable quantities Anthony provides.

 

Here is a quote of Eric Bornemann : and the link to the article is

 

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-12/eb/index.php but you will need to scroll down quite a bit to get to the Caulerpa and macro-algae part :

 

Quote

I am not in any way condemning the use of macroalgae in refugia. I am very fond of many of them, although many have quite numerous and toxic secondary metabolites, like soft corals and sponges. In particular, I am very unfond of Caulerpa (Figure 5). It is invasive and very difficult to eradicate. It is toxic to fish and has many metabolites - and releases them when the organism degenerates during spawning. Acidic rhizomes etch carbonate (Figure 6) and these algae can kill other more desirable species by overgrowth. I have had it grow right through the stalks of soft corals. Many aquarists say that it has not been a problem for them. My response? Just wait. It will. I guess my big question regarding Caulerpa is why use it at all when so many more desirable species of macroalgae exist, like Chaetomorpha species, or others (Figures 7 & 8).

Unquote

 

It's a very long article ...

 

Did you also know that it is illegal in California to import and/or sell certain types of Caulerpa ...

 

See : http://www.sccat.net/#aquarists-1e86f1 for more details on the reasons and the prohibitions and fines for those who do not abide by those laws.

 

Albert