VorTech Quietdrive?

[deathbyart]

 

Is the president of Ecotech fresh out of high school?

[StevieT]

Is the president of Ecotech fresh out of high school?

No but he's a smart mother ####er. Out of college got free monies to start that company and get the patent.

[Lawnman]

No but he's a smart mother ######. Out of college got free monies to start that company and get the patent.

A rich mother####er to

[StevieT]

Thanks to your addiction

[joem1cha3l]

I never thought the MP10 was noisy. The Larger ones prob were way more.

 

If it's not in a bedroom save your cash if needed, the hype is brilliant marketing.

 

Oh and we dropped our price and lose now. Thanks EcoTech......

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lol Jake finally shaved his Muslim beard

 

I completely agree with this Stevie. I thought the same thing the other day. This is purely marketing on the MP10 side of things. I understand why they did it, but the hype is....well, hype. I just ordered a MP10 on Sunday, before I heard of the release. I kicked myself in the butt afterwards, but it was too late. If I shipped it back to BRS, by time I paid for shipping to them and paid for their side of shipping, I would have wasted $50. I bit the bullet and decided to use the pump.

 

Put it in my tank yesterday and its nearly silent. Again, this is the old style. Not the QD. Its about 7 feet from me in the corner of my living room and I cant hear it at all. I understand the QD on the MP40 being a big deal, but on the MP10, its all marketing.

[StrainedSky]

 

I completely agree with this Stevie. I thought the same thing the other day. This is purely marketing on the MP10 side of things. I understand why they did it, but the hype is....well, hype. I just ordered a MP10 on Sunday, before I heard of the release. I kicked myself in the butt afterwards, but it was too late. If I shipped it back to BRS, by time I paid for shipping to them and paid for their side of shipping, I would have wasted $50. I bit the bullet and decided to use the pump.

 

Put it in my tank yesterday and its nearly silent. Again, this is the old style. Not the QD. Its about 7 feet from me in the corner of my living room and I cant hear it at all. I understand the QD on the MP40 being a big deal, but on the MP10, its all marketing.

I have both the QD drive and the ES MP10's. The QD is more quiet than my ES MP10 but than again my ES MP10 wasn't loud in my opinion. But whats quiet to my may be loud to you, its very subjective topic. So is it marketing, in my experience no, is it worth the money, again that depends on acceptable noise to you.

[deathbyart]

No but he's a smart mother ######. Out of college got free monies to start that company and get the patent.

I just quickly read up on the companies bio. Very interesting, I had no idea.

[Reefin Ric Flair]

I have both the QD drive and the ES MP10's. The QD is more quiet than my ES MP10 but than again my ES MP10 wasn't loud in my opinion. But whats quiet to my may be loud to you, its very subjective topic. So is it marketing, in my experience no, is it worth the money, again that depends on acceptable noise to you.

 

Do you think the qd is worth an extra 50 dollars?

[StrainedSky]

Do you think the qd is worth an extra 50 dollars?

If I was buying new than yes and if my tank was in a living space $50 more isn't a huge difference to have the pumps be a little more quiet. I would think it would be even more noticeable if your running more than one pump.

[Reefin Ric Flair]

If I was buying new than yes and if my tank was in a living space $50 more isn't a huge difference to have the pumps be a little more quiet. I would think it would be even more noticeable if your running more than one pump.

 

Thanks brother. I'm starting my first tank so I'm going to pull the trigger and use my koralia to mix saltwater instead

[jedimasterben]

####### right. They could have done this way better on their actual customers, the dealers. This all drops this week and we are left in the dark holding now obsolete inventory purchased at normal price. Luckily I have a few left over from the BF sale which we buy reduced at as expected. But not all. With free outbound shipping, inbound from ETM, handling,paying shipping Jeff it's a loss. No notice whatsoever to reduce MAP today, if I wasn't tipped off it be still the same.

 

They focused on these threads, avatars, and YouTube reviews creating hype and not taking care of their real customers.

 

And a Friday night too when I should be doing hookers and blow and not updating the company pricing structure.

Yeah, it seems like they were trying hard for a viral marketing campaign, but the fact that it was people from their product team that were 'discovering' the 'leaked' photos, etc, it flopped.

 

Ecotech should at least send you a hookergram.

[markalot]

That video makes me question any future purchase of any ecotech product. I'm sorry I watched it.

 

We run the motor smoother using updated merry go round technology? Nice, and I just need to buy the new black REVOLUTIONARY driver to achieve this new quiet.

 

So I suppose they hired someone smart who pointed out that while saving power the DC pulse they were using was making more noise and possibly more wear and tear on the motor and if optimized, while using a little more juice, will make it run quieter and probably last longer.

 

Can someone with actual electrical motor knowledge explain this?

 

Sounds like a bug fix masked as an upgrade.

[jedimasterben]

That video makes me question any future purchase of any ecotech product. I'm sorry I watched it.

 

We run the motor smoother using updated merry go round technology? Nice, and I just need to buy the new black REVOLUTIONARY driver to achieve this new quiet.

 

So I suppose they hired someone smart who pointed out that while saving power the DC pulse they were using was making more noise and possibly more wear and tear on the motor and if optimized, while using a little more juice, will make it run quieter and probably last longer.

 

Can someone with actual electrical motor knowledge explain this?

 

Sounds like a bug fix masked as an upgrade.

Evil has explained how it works a few times already in this thread and here: http://reefbuilders.com/2015/02/11/ecotech-marine-quietdrive-revolution-dc-motor-performance-silence/

 

The new drivers do not send any more power except in the case of the new MP40 dry side which they needed to do to stay competitive with the output of the Maxspect Gyre.

[Steensj2004]

This is EXACTLY why I no buy any voretchs for my new tank. I would have paid 100.00 more a week ago for a 10, lol! Dodged that bullet!

[jedimasterben]

This is EXACTLY why I no buy any forget gs for my new tank. I would have paid 100.00 more a week ago for a 10, limos. Dodged that bullet!

[markalot]

 

Vortechs use a radial flux motor, meaning that the rotor (the part that moves that has the dry side magnet) spins on the axis of the magnetic field, with the stator (the coil windings) surrounding the rotor on the same axis (on the rotors radius). This is how 99% of motors are designed.

 

What was described above is an axial flux motor, where the stator and rotor are parallel to each other. If Ecotech can pull it off, then the dry side will just be a big 3-phase electromagnet, and the rotor will be the wet side. You don't see this type of technology used much for motors, but I've seen it used a bunch for generators, especially for DIY wind applications.

Now, all of this could just be a new control scheme for the standard motor setup. There has been a lot of talk lately about new drive ICs for stepper motors (think CNC machines) that use new drive control algorithms to reduce the high frequency whine that you get with most stepper systems making them virtually silent. The same theories could be applied to 3-phase DC brushless motors like the ones used in the Vortechs.

 

This explains how a new driver motor combo would work, but just guesses at pairing an old motor with a new driver. It helps, but I still don't get how they do it.

 

For < $100 I will buy the new drivers if that's all it takes, and suddenly I love Ecotech again.

[Steensj2004]

Man I hate auto correct on Apple products.....and wicked hangovers. Fixed it just for you Ben!

[jedimasterben]

This explains how a new driver motor combo would work, but just guesses at pairing an old motor with a new driver. It helps, but I still don't get how they do it.

 

For < $100 I will buy the new drivers if that's all it takes, and suddenly I love Ecotech again.

Now, getting back to speculation, I'm willing to bet it's more about the controller than the motor. Ecotech would have to make a serious investment to create a new style of motor, especially considering how much they have already invested in their current lineup. Going with an axial flux motor wouldn't make things quiet by itself, as it would still use the same control method, and would still whine like a traditional DC brushless motor.

 

this is what Evil wrote on reefbuilders

"You would be surprised. There are a lot of companies actively involved in creating new driver chips and control algorithms for brushless DC motor systems (like the motors found in the Vortechs and stepper motors found in CNC machines) to make them virtually silent. I'm pretty sure this is what Ecotech is doing here with the new controllers. Sure, bearing noise may play a part in it, but if the bearings are greased properly, you should barely be able to tell that the pump is running with the new controller. The new dry side is just to increase flow to make it more competitive again, and possibly more durable. The new housing may help to make it a little quieter, but it's not going to be the sole cause for a 90% reduction in noise."

 

Glad everybody decided to kiss and make up

Anyway, this new type of control scheme is very real. I've seen some demonstrations recently on stepper motors (used in CNC machines), that usually sing quite a tune during operation, and they come off near silent to the point it's spooky. This is the first application I've seen in 3 phase brushless DC motors, but the principle is basically the same.

As for the bearing issue, that's always going to be an issue until the right bearings are used, or existing ones are packed with the right grease/lube. Oil is not going to cut it, as it will break down at elevated temperatures. Packing the bearing with the right grease is the way to go, but not the easiest option for the home tinkerer, as they won't have the right equipment to do the job right. With the right prep though, I don't doubt that these motors can now be made virtually silent.

[StrainedSky]

Yeah, it seems like they were trying hard for a viral marketing campaign, but the fact that it was people from their product team that were 'discovering' the 'leaked' photos, etc, it flopped.

 

Ecotech should at least send you a hookergram.

Thought it was silly myself.

[jedimasterben]

Thought it was silly myself.

Should send you a hookergram, too

[LynkUK]

 

Honestly, I've never understood why people were willing to pay so much for them when it's pretty much common knowledge that they are/get noisy or defective to the point of needing to be repaired. When you consider that, the only difference between them and a Jebao is literally the wire on the outside of the tank vs the inside and the 300%+ price increase.

 

You are being over simplistic.

 

1. The Jebao controller has no were near the level of control of the Vortech

2.You fail to mention size of the wetside...which can be an important consideration for nano tanks

3.Yes, there are some people that have had noise issues...but then again there are plenty of people who are extremely happy with their Vortech

4.Never had a Vortech stall at low power....I imagine that can be quite annoying with the Jebao.

5.Level of customer service and support - VIP like with Ecotech. Try contacting Jebao, let alone for postage paid return service if it breaks. Yes Ecotech will send you a replacement part before having to return a faulty item.

 

Is the Jebao a good price? Yes

Is the Jebao cost effective over time? Lets see.

[Pilg0re]

 

You are being over simplistic.

 

1. The Jebao controller has no were near the level of control of the Vortech

2.You fail to mention size of the wetside...which can be an important consideration for nano tanks

3.Yes, there are some people that have had noise issues...but then again there are plenty of people who are extremely happy with their Vortech

4.Never had a Vortech stall at low power....I imagine that can be quite annoying with the Jebao.

5.Level of customer service and support - VIP like with Ecotech. Try contacting Jebao, let alone for postage paid return service if it breaks. Yes Ecotech will send you a replacement part before having to return a faulty item.

 

Is the Jebao a good price? Yes

Is the Jebao cost effective over time? Lets see.

 

People will always find ways to cut corners when it comes to any product (this has been said many many times) but you really do get what you pay for.

[Ahanix]

Sorry I haven't posted a lot this weekend. Been very busy with Valentines Day with the Ms among studying and being on call for work.

 

I got my QD mounted this weekend and gave it a whirl, needless to say - Here are my initial impressions:

 

1- How is the fit and finish of the product? Overall, I am very impressed, the Black Driver housing definitely makes the product more refined and professional. I finally wouldn't mind displaying the driver on the outside of my tank for non-enthusiasts to view and ask about (not that I really cared in the past, it just feels a lot "cooler" to show off in my opinion)

 

Driver, Wetside and Dry side are all the same high quality material, nothing has really changed with the Dry / Wet side of the MP10, but definitely makes this worth upgrading the driver on existing devices.

 

2- So "Quiet Drive"? Well, yeah. I know most people have never really complained about the noise of the MP10, I really haven't either - that being said, it has always prevented me from running any of the pulse modes. I couldn't stand the on-off whirring of the dry side, but even running in Reef Crest I have always been happy with the pump.

 

At this point, I have to put my ear up to the dry side to even hear the pump running, somehow the driver has made some awesome improvements to the way the dry side handles spinning inside, and really has made it so much quieter. I was very hesitant when receiving the device, but figured it was worth trying out.

 

Long story short, I am very impressed with the product, EcoTech has made a great leap in creating an "Elite-Class" product for our aquariums. I would have absolutely zero hesitation picking one of these up, and plan on buying two of the MP40QD's for my new 100g+ build coming this fall, since they are quiet, have the fit and finish of a professional product, and the new 40 pushes a lot more water.

 

Figured I would throw a picture of what the product looks mounted to the other driver, at least until I can get my hands on ordering another QD driver to go next to it

 

 

 

I'll post more as soon as I get some time to stress test it.

[Steensj2004]

 

So what your saying is corals don't already get the flesh ripped off them by to much flow from gentler pumps already because they can withstand more velocities in the ocean. Hell if thats the case why did you feel the need to turn the 150 down in your tank shouldn't you have been lusting for more instead?

 

 

There is a difference between alot of flow, and alot of force Flow is good, force is not. Vortecs create flow, gayres create force.

Have you even used a Gyre, or are you just making assumptions? I tested my Gyre 130 this past weekend in a 34 gallon shallow( 36 x 18 x 12) and there was NOTHING violent about it? Even on full blast, no more forceful then the MP series I've had in the past. Albeit, I have ALWAYS been a staunch supporter of Ecotech, but there is NOTHING wrong with the new Maxspect pumps......

[joem1cha3l]

VERY clean setup. Geesh, now you want me to buy one and I just mounted my "old" style yesterday