Oxydator and Hydrogen peroxide.

[albertthiel]

Not the best pic as taken with my phone but my pulsing Xenia is doing very well with my Oxydator quite close to it.

Looking good Les ... and I know you use the 6% solution with a large Oxydator in that tank so there seems to be no negative effect on them at all

 

Albert

[atoll]

I tried to send a 4 sec vid of the Xenia pulsing but my phone says it's too big to send I can upload it from my phone to facebook and nano reefs forum on there so I will do that.

My short vid has been uploaded to the facebook nano reef forum showing my Xenia pulsing.

[albertthiel]

I tried to send a 4 sec vid of the Xenia pulsing but my phone says it's too big to send I can upload it from my phone to facebook and nano reefs forum on there so I will do that.

My short vid has been uploaded to the facebook nano reef forum showing my Xenia pulsing.

 

Sounds good and then you can copy and paste it here I think

 

Albert

[metrokat]

Quote "I mean, all of the evidence has been anecdotal from all sides"

I personaly know many people running Oxydators who report a reduction of algae growing on the glass of their tanks since introducing an Oxydator as many have reported on this site and others.

 

 

Now you know 3 that have an increase in algae or no positive effect with it.

Ben, myself and Tibbsy. I think Island of Tikki also had similar observations. So 4.

[atoll]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152866508202515&set=o.506231769438839&type=2&theater

[metrokat]

I tried to send a 4 sec vid of the Xenia pulsing but my phone says it's too big to send I can upload it from my phone to facebook and nano reefs forum on there so I will do that.

I believe you Atoll, your experience with the Oxydator isn't in question here. Ours is curiously different. Getting to understand why that is the case is the aim here.

[atoll]

I believe you Atoll, your experience with the Oxydator isn't in question here. Ours is curiously different. Getting to understand why that is the case is the aim here.

And I believe you. What I and Albert find strange is that so many report reduced algae growth while a couple suggest that perhaps the Oxydator is responsible for the growth of algae in their tanks. I find it difficult to understand how the Oxydator used correctly can have opposite effects. I can understand people noticing no difference in their tanks but not an opposite. Not just my experience but that of many have noticed a great difference using Oxydator's. Those who say they notice an increase in algae possibly due to the introduction of an Oxydator are basically saying it's due to an increase in Oxygen and Redox no that is strange indeed and goes against the norm for the vast majority. .

[jedimasterben]

And my assumptions are correct, the oxydator is simply catalyzing peroxide inside the plastic bit to create pressure to push a very small amount of peroxide into the water at a controlled rate from the silver in the catalyst. The peroxide comes into contact with the aquarium water and reacts with organics, etc. The oxygen released from the reaction then gets pushed into/through the ceramic enclosure into the aquarium water.

[afyounie]

And my assumptions are correct, the oxydator is simply catalyzing peroxide inside the plastic bit to create pressure to push a very small amount of peroxide into the water at a controlled rate from the silver in the catalyst. The peroxide comes into contact with the aquarium water and reacts with organics, etc. The oxygen released from the reaction then gets pushed into/through the ceramic enclosure into the aquarium water.

 

Looks like the catalyst is most likely Manganese Oxide. A typical catalyst for peroxide.

[atoll]

And my assumptions are correct, the oxydator is simply catalyzing peroxide inside the plastic bit to create pressure to push a very small amount of peroxide into the water at a controlled rate from the silver in the catalyst. The peroxide comes into contact with the aquarium water and reacts with organics, etc. The oxygen released from the reaction then gets pushed into/through the ceramic enclosure into the aquarium water.

Can you point me to the article you found that in Jed. as my understanding is the vast majority of peroxide is broken down within the Oxydator and released as O2. Also I would be interested in a reply from you on my post a few posts back which you may have missed.

[jedimasterben]

 

Looks like the catalyst is most likely Manganese Oxide. A typical catalyst for peroxide.

Nope, it is 1g of 99.9% silver and a tablespoon of 'liquid clay slip', not sure exactly what that is. See PDF below.

 

Can you point me to the article you found that in Jed. as my understanding is the vast majority of peroxide is broken down within the Oxydator and released as O2. Also I would be interested in a reply from you on my post a few posts back which you may have missed.

http://www.aquariumoxygenator.com/Patent%204,784,765%20Aquarium_oxygenator.pdf

 

Explains it pretty simply.

[atoll]

The catalyst include some silver.

[afyounie]

Ah, so they use silver as the catalyst. This whole thing seems like the cheap way to inject ozone into your tank. Kind of like when I used to inject CO2 into my planted aquarium using some kind of base acid interaction. Why not go for a different method? This thing seems like it would take up too much room in the tank. Why not buy one of those CO2 disk diffusors and hook it up to a bottle of H2O2 outside of the tank? You could add a catalyst with no worry of it getting into the tank if you really wanted. Or just stick the bottle near a window and boom, sun takes care of the O2 separation. I might just try this. I got a spare CO2 disk sitting around somewhere.

[albertthiel]

Nope, it is 1g of 99.9% silver and a tablespoon of 'liquid clay slip', not sure exactly what that is. See PDF below.

 

http://www.aquariumoxygenator.com/Patent%204,784,765%20Aquarium_oxygenator.pdf

 

Explains it pretty simply.

 

That is NOT the Sochting Oxydator Ben that is one that Aquarum Products filed (Merryl Cohen) and not the original one. Not even sure that the two are identical and that unit never really sold very well if at all to my knowledge

 

Albert

[atoll]

Nope, it is 1g of 99.9% silver and a tablespoon of 'liquid clay slip', not sure exactly what that is. See PDF below.

 

http://www.aquariumoxygenator.com/Patent%204,784,765%20Aquarium_oxygenator.pdf

 

Explains it pretty simply.

That does not look like an Oxydator from the drawing so I wonder if they changed it as it was patented in 1988 and may have undergone some amendment and improvement. What I see exiting my Oxydator are small very fine bubbles which I assume is pure oxygen. Very interesting though and I wonder what Dr. Scothing would have to say about it . The inventor in the doc is credited to a Merrill Cohen not Dr Scothing whom is credited with the invention of the Oxydator. Confused I am.

 

That is NOT the Sochting Oxydator Ben that is one that Aquarum Products filed (Merryl Cohen) and not the original one. Not even sure that the two are identical and that unit never really sold very well if at all to my knowledge

 

Albert

Harrrr yes not an Oxydator at all

[albertthiel]

 

Looks like the catalyst is most likely Manganese Oxide. A typical catalyst for peroxide.

 

I tried using that Ben and it does not work, you get a black mess inside the container and not all that same results as you get with the Sochting one and you get a stream of oxygen coming out of it on a continuous basis and not in the same manner as the Sochting unit works releasing O at intermittent levels.

 

I also tried several metals including iron, brass, copper and others and the results were never the same as I am getting with the one made by Sochitng

 

Albert

[metrokat]

 

That is NOT the Sochting Oxydator Ben that is one that Aquarum Products filed (Merryl Cohen) and not the original one. Not even sure that the two are identical and that unit never really sold very well if at all to my knowledge

 

Albert

So what makes the Sochting Oxydator different?

And I'm not referring to the shape of the device.

[tibbsy07]

 

Yes an objective evaluation would be helpful but note that what you find can also be labeled "anecdotal" the same as you have done with all other reports (the positive ones) ... but ... so be it. Just saying ....

 

Let's see what you find out tibbsy

 

Albert

That's what I was saying. Everything, good or bad, has been anecdotal so no actual conclusion can be made, save our opinions on the matter. We can't say that the oxydator is actually doing nothing for the tank, as we have no evidence that nothing is occurring. At the same time, however, we can't say that the oxydator is actually anything for the tank either.

And I believe you. What I and Albert find strange is that so many report reduced algae growth while a couple suggest that perhaps the Oxydator is responsible for the growth of algae in their tanks. I find it difficult to understand how the Oxydator used correctly can have opposite effects. I can understand people noticing no difference in their tanks but not an opposite. Not just my experience but that of many have noticed a great difference using Oxydator's. Those who say they notice an increase in algae possibly due to the introduction of an Oxydator are basically saying it's due to an increase in Oxygen and Redox no that is strange indeed and goes against the norm for the vast majority. .

Your accounts and our accounts are different - that doesn't mean that either group are wrong. You report no algae. Ben reports more algae. There is no actual data from either set of people to say that the oxydator is or isn't the culprit. It's all anecdotal. You are confused because you believe the oxydator actually helps your tank, and it may very well. That doesn't mean it will help everyone's tanks, though. Nualgi had some really positive benefits for some people, but most people said it made their tanks worse. This is the same thing.

This is the original patent:

http://www.google.com/patents/US4466556

 

This is updated in 2004:

http://www.google.com/patents/WO2004105476A1?cl=en

[pal]

well it works in my tank

[Maximus831]

well it works in my tank

Can you describe the positive effects it has for your tank? Thanks!

[pal]

my sand bed is cleaner <I had a small amount of cyano that I could not lick before,>, My water is clearer , less algae on the glass ,skimate is lighter in color. Also my pod population has exploded. All in about a weeks time,

[atoll]

well it works in my tank

Nope your confused

[albertthiel]

So what makes the Sochting Oxydator different?

And I'm not referring to the shape of the device.

 

That is the 64 K question Kat ... no one seems to know exactly and we can only go by what our observations of its effect are on FW aquariums when it was first introduced and then on SW aquariums and reefs later on

 

Anything stated here are experiences by some who have used it for a LONG time and thus more reliable as they have been repeated over time, and by others who have only used it for a very short period of time and have decided that the unit does not "work"

 

IME that is an erroneous interepration and only true scientific evidence would be acceptable by some but such evidence is not available to my knowledge

 

All I can say is that over the years that I have used them they have given me great satisfaction including currently in my Jellyfish tank and that has been the experience of others as well including of course Les who has used the Unit for decades with positive results,

 

Note that this unit has been on the market for 30 odd years and since it still is and is still being widely used one has to give some credence to the fact that it does indeed perform as described by those who report the positive results

 

We could go on here with pros and cons and more pros and cons yet all of that would be anecdotal as well based on what some say so even those who are going to test the unit so to speak will be reporting the same type of anecdotal findings not scientific evidence

 

What my suggestion is : try it out and give it time to perform as it is intended to perform and that may be far longer than the time frame that some have used the units for currently

 

I know it works or I would not continue to use it and so does Les and so do many others who report excellent results on other forums and so do seahorse breeders who report excellent results with its use.

 

Albert

Believe me IT WORKS

[jedimasterben]

That is NOT the Sochting Oxydator Ben that is one that Aquarum Products filed (Merryl Cohen) and not the original one. Not even sure that the two are identical and that unit never really sold very well if at all to my knowledge

 

Albert

That does not look like an Oxydator from the drawing so I wonder if they changed it as it was patented in 1988 and may have undergone some amendment and improvement. What I see exiting my Oxydator are small very fine bubbles which I assume is pure oxygen. Very interesting though and I wonder what Dr. Scothing would have to say about it . The inventor in the doc is credited to a Merrill Cohen not Dr Scothing whom is credited with the invention of the Oxydator. Confused I am.

Harrrr yes not an Oxydator at all

Considering that is sourced from here and it exactly describes the design and function of the Oxydator that I am using (which was not purchased from that source, instead from Saltwater-conversion), I'm skeptical to say that it is not.

 

In addition, this is pulled directly from the updated patent for the 'official' Oxydator as submitted by Klaus Sochting:

 

 

The peroxide solution is expelled by the gas-pressure-generating reaction by the one or more fine hole (s) from the reservoir and absorbed by the surrounding aqueous system. That in fact the peroxide solution, and not the gas generated in the reservoir, through the opening (s) exits shall be guaranteed by a suitable design of the apparatus used for carrying out the method according to the invention.

 

This is how the same process is worded in the original patent, again submitted by Klaus Sochting

 

 

In operation, the apparatus is submerged in an upright position in water. At introduction into the water, the air cushion beneath the cap 5 protects against dilution of the dosing solution in container 5. The freely-evolving oxygen in container B essentially does not contribute to the dissolved amount in the surrounding water, since free oxygen is dissolved in water only with great difficulty. The freely evolving oxygen serves almost exclusively for maintaining a gas cushion under the cap, producing a sort of valve operation, to produce a slight flow of the hydrogen peroxide and for activity control of the catalyst by forming the further gas cushion 9 in the vicinity of the catalyst. Leakage of water over the catalyst 8 would result in activity of the catalyst.

 

The essential operation is achieved through the, to a large extent undecomposed, remaining hydrogen peroxide escaping from the apparatus. It is completely water soluble and diffuses for that reason rapidly also into the most remote corners, the critical points; it raises the redox potential of the water and oxydizes for example hydrogen sulfide and poisonous catabolism products of egg white to non-poisonous substances; it destroys water cloudiness, such as diatomacae and bacteria in a concentration which for higher plants and also fish fry is completely harmless.

 

Pretty much sums it up. That is why this little hole is present on what becomes the underside of the peroxide container and not the top, because the broken down peroxide is not being used to directly insert oxygen into the water.

[atoll]

Quote "Your accounts and our accounts are different"

Correct

quote "You report no algae."

You are confused. No I don't I report as others have a REDUCTION in algae on the front glass and longer periods between cleaning.

Quote "Ben reports more algae."

Correct

Quote "There is no actual data from either set of people to say that the oxydator is or isn't the culprit. It's all anecdotal."

So,many people report seeing positive results time and time again since the introduction of an Oxydator that I think there is more than enough evidence to support the claims.

Quote "You are confused because you believe the oxydator actually helps your tank"

No confusion here my friend I have been using Oxydator's for 30 years plus on many tanks with matching results it's my tanks that are confused if there is any confusion.

Quote "That doesn't mean it will help everyone's tanks, though"

Correct just the vast majority as has been reported time and time again on here and on other forums.

 

Quote. "Nualgi had some really positive benefits for some people, but most people said it made their tanks worse. This is the same thing."

No it isn't. Oxydator's have given positive result for a great many a few seem to think it has not.

 

I am sorry after a short period using an Oxydator you are not getting the immediate results you wanted but maybe if you stay with it you will see what a larger number of people have witnessed with the introduction of Oxydator's in their tanks then again maybe not.