Peroxide saves my Tank! With pics to Prove It!

[jedimasterben]

Well, looks like my algae is dying back, especially on the SPS pieces. I have been using peroxide every few days, spot treating the places that needed it most with my return pump and powerheads off, then about 20-30 minutes later turning the powerheads back on, and then about six hours later turning the return pump back on - at all costs the algae on my algae scrubber must not be affected. The scrubber has truly begun its campaign and is efficiently keeping nitrate undetectable (which is bad, my clams are starving out) and phosphate was at 0.02ppm, so I have no doubt that the algae in the display will not return.

[sublime1996525]

Sublime that is pretty impressive results - are you planning long term success with more husbandry or just keep running the same? These kind of pics fascinate me - I am too chicken to dose anything in my tank as i feel its just a bandaid for the larger problem.

I'm hoping to start doing better upkeep. More frequent water changes and only spot treat with peroxide if I have to. I'm nervous about this still and I'm worried for my cleaner shrimp. I had to pick him up from the LFS tonight because I'm going out of town for a week. I really hope he does okay.

[brandon429]

http://bkdwebb.smugmug.com/Aquariums/GHA-Problems/27174420_Hdx3j6#!i=2282022859&k=9ZncWtR

 

 

This site has first ever pics of an invasive thick stranded low turf algae being treated with peroxide and photographed at 600x magnification!

Internal bleaching before rupture of the cell walls and supportive structure in the plant

[brandon429]

Here's a bit of info about the hows and whys this works. Hopefully you'll find it helpful in figuring out what concentrations to try:

 

Aerobic and some facultative anaerobic bacteria produce the enzyme catalaze (and other enzymes) to handle rective oxygen species and super oxygen. The way we tested for aerobes in the lab is by dumping peroxide on cultures and waiting for O2 bubbles. So, as long as the enzyme does not become the limiting factor, they should survive. Anaerobic bacteria in DSBs will suffer since they do not have enzymes to process peroxide, much like the photosynthetic algae. Zooanthelle should be protected by their coral hosts.

 

I believe all aerobic organisms produce catalaze (and other enzymes) to neutralize reactive oxygen species--there are always exceptions, so corals and fish should also be fine at lower peroxide concentrations. I would guess in the instance of cyano outbreaks following this proceedure that beyond the increase in nutrients from die off, that the normal biota are also reduced and so they are not competing against cyano.

 

I have the first tufts of turf algae starting to grow on the rock with SPS frags glued to it. Will try taking the rock out and spot-treating and let you know how it goes.

polar Ill add another neat angle to your post. You can test for generalized aerobic bacteria on any surface that doesnt bubble when peroxide is applied and you'll still get a massive diversity of surviving colonies, amazing in my opinion. Its so weak at 3% it doesnt even kill the unadapted.

 

regarding the susceptibility of anaerobes, until we see nitrate spikes post treatment we don't really have a good way to know or measure. so far, no tank parameter has ever been recorded as long term impacted by peroxide use, including orp which is really against the grain. some of the ups and downs associated with orp spikes are rather short lived so it seems the susceptible succumb quick and are very consistently predictable among tanks now

[Polarcollision]

polar Ill add another neat angle to your post. You can test for generalized aerobic bacteria on any surface that doesnt bubble when peroxide is applied and you'll still get a massive diversity of surviving colonies, amazing in my opinion. Its so weak at 3% it doesnt even kill the unadapted.

 

regarding the susceptibility of anaerobes, until we see nitrate spikes post treatment we don't really have a good way to know or measure. so far, no tank parameter has ever been recorded as long term impacted by peroxide use, including orp which is really against the grain. some of the ups and downs associated with orp spikes are rather short lived so it seems the susceptible succumb quick and are very consistently predictable among tanks now

Hmm. The slow drip may be the means for adaptation with no/little die-off for the aerobes, especially if the concentration of peroxide is low enough to not overwhelm catalase. IIRC, the real-world generation time for Nitrobacter is ~13 hrs and Nitrosomonas is around ~7 hours. Seems like enough time over a couple days for some adaptation. How many real-world trials went into determining that 3% was a safe dose? I'm leaning towards giving the full tank a dose rather than breaking off the SPS rock but am still skittish. :-) Seems I got lucky and have a population in a 1.5" sandbed converting nitrates to N2. Don't want to mess up a good thing.

[brandon429]

The testing has been linked together in all these peroxide threads among forums...between this thread and the rc thread alone I bet it's well over several hundred tanks that did in tank treatments of one kind or another, and thats excluding other reference threads that were large like the ones from reef2reef etc.

 

 

 

I bet it's a thousand tanks if you were to link up all the peroxide threads started since 2011, it would take a full day of reading off the web to find them all for sure. The reefcentral thread has the most dsb/sps/large tanks doing full tank dosing enough to see it won't affect bacteria to the point any test will indicate significance

 

How are you able to verify the sandbed is reducing nitrate I'm curious?

[brandon429]

The reason I don't recommend tank drips for substrate bound targets (whereas they work well for green water/suspended invaders like Windy Ridge showed on the rc thread) is simply because we get faster die off times from underwater spot treatments which elevate the contact time briefly compared to full tank dosing which evenly distributes peroxide among targets and non targets. Bacteria are of no concern in any application method...one reason could be that the bio films housing otherwise impacted bacteria aren't degraded well by 3% so the bacteria remain unharmed. That's just a guess though, this prediction is made solely off the collected results of those who dosed full tanks and posted test details afterwards of the common reef tank params. It's consistently negative for any change in nitrate which inversely speaks of the condition of reducing bacteria

[bhd130d]

Wow alot of good stuff here.

 

I did not check the tank yesterday as I was out from 8am to 3 am. But I left the lights off. I checked today and all the live bryopsis I saw on the rocks was gone, as well as the old white strands, so it must have fallen off.

 

The only place im continuing to see growth is the front glass, near the substrate. I have scraped it two days ago and strands contnue to grow. There is nothing on the substrate. I have tried spot treating the glass as well. Any ideas?

[Polarcollision]

The testing has been linked together in all these peroxide threads among forums...between this thread and the rc thread alone I bet it's well over several hundred tanks that did in tank treatments of one kind or another, and thats excluding other reference threads that were large like the ones from reef2reef etc.

 

 

 

I bet it's a thousand tanks if you were to link up all the peroxide threads started since 2011, it would take a full day of reading off the web to find them all for sure. The reefcentral thread has the most dsb/sps/large tanks doing full tank dosing enough to see it won't affect bacteria to the point any test will indicate significance

 

How are you able to verify the sandbed is reducing nitrate I'm curious?

Even this thread is a lot to read! I spent 2 hours last night and didn't even scratch the surface, so I definitely appreciate your inside info summary. And you have no idea how happy this peroxide tip has made me!! Now I have hope for defeating that turf algae before it gets established this time. THANK YOU for being so helpful!

 

I have no skimmer, change a gallon of water (nuvo 8) once a week and my nitrates are zero (elos) with fairly heavy feedings. The turf algae didn't start to grow until a hermit molted while I was away for a couple days. There are tiny bubbles against the glass about 3/4 of an inch below the sand surface. It's assumption - would you draw the same conclusion? Part of me wonders if extended periods of hands-in-tank seeded something from the lab.

[brandon429]

I have similar bubbles and guess it could be n2 gas that's a reasonable guess. The initial kill we feel very confident about...it's the return variables that each tank differs on, with a huge portion not having regrowth problems so cross fingers!!

Thank you for posting and post some pics if you can!

[bhd130d]

I have removed each rock, sprayed with peroxide, dipped in peroxide/rodi, scrubbed and rinsed and just threw everything back in the tank. I scraped the glass and then took some filter floss and applied peroxide to it and rubbed down the areas of the glass where the bryopsis was growing.

 

Im going to monitor the tank and look for any new strands. As of now I dont see any sign of bryopsis. If all is well Ill redo my aquascape on sunday and then start with water changes to remove the peroxide and tech m.

[Polarcollision]

I have similar bubbles and guess it could be n2 gas that's a reasonable guess. The initial kill we feel very confident about...it's the return variables that each tank differs on, with a huge portion not having regrowth problems so cross fingers!!

 

Thank you for posting and post some pics if you can!

 

Here's 100x magnification after adding 3% peroxide. Bubbles inside the main stem. After 10 minutes one of the segments lysed, but all else seemed to have survived. Does this look like turf algae to you, too?

 

400x bubbles in stem

[brandon429]

those pics are just stunning thank you so much for posting. someone with the equipment to photograph microscopic level peroxide blasting is very rare.

 

 

Im not a good id guy for algae ID, but reefbase and reefcleaners sure are a go to site.

 

Ive only seen two sets of pics now under the mic for cell-level visuals of peroxide, and both times the bubble/bleaching started internally vs breaking the external cell wall and leaking the

 

dont you find it amazing you can add a certain amount to a tank and have only the bad algae succumb to it even though all animals are exposed?? finding out the genetic differences that support free radical resistance among organisms would be a heck of a venture and again this kind of photography and public feedback provide more clues.

[slickwill613]

Have two rocks I'd like to treat today. Was going to take them out and straight rinse them in 3%. Thing is one rock has gsp and the other has some zoas attached. Any one know if the bath will kill em?

[brandon429]

those have been shown as peroxide resistant but I must ask, why pour any on them? just hit the bad areas is what I do, hardly any coral contact.

[slickwill613]

those have been shown as peroxide resistant but I must ask, why pour any on them? just hit the bad areas is what I do, hardly any coral contact.

 

Yeah that'll work on the zoa rock, but the gsp has the stuff growing on the purple mat itself. I'm gonna do my best to not get it on the corals but just wanted to make sure. I'm sure a little will end up on them.

[brandon429]

ok that makes sense. hey can you snap before and after pics for us

 

for sure a dilution of new bottle 3% and half saltwater will be safe for direct contact for both, we have lots of pics of both of these doing just fine after a diluted application even if directly on...

[sublime1996525]

Here are a couple pictures. My full tank shot is blurry sorry about that. This is about 1 1/2 weeks post treatment. Now I just need to keep up on water changes and do some out of tank dipping and I think I'll be golden.

[slickwill613]

ok that makes sense. hey can you snap before and after pics for us

 

for sure a dilution of new bottle 3% and half saltwater will be safe for direct contact for both, we have lots of pics of both of these doing just fine after a diluted application even if directly on...

 

Sorry, didn't snap any photos. I went undiluted. All the zoas opened right back up. The part of the gsp that I scrubbed and abused to get the stuff off hasn't opened up yet, but the mat is still a healthy purple color so I'm just giving it time. Hasn't started yellowing yet, but every time I've done undiluted dips it takes around 3 days to really start dying.

[Belac]

Not quite done reading this thread but I did a test dip of a few plugs yesterday and I was impressed how fast it worked.

Now I am in the process of treating a really rock that has had issues for months. Cyano and some sort of hairy algea. I didn't think it wasy cyano for the longest time, it has been that color since I set the tank up a year ago. I thought it was some of the red corline that I have. Some one pointed out that it didn't look right. I blasted it off with a turkey baster and sucked up what I could. That was a big mistake ever sence then its been spreading in the tank to patches where the water flow isn't great. (Going to fix that as son as I can get parts for a wavemaker.)

Before, during, and after pictures after the rock cleans up. Have a few other before and afters to show. Also dipped a rock with aptasia on it just to see what their reaction to prolonged exposure of a 1:10 Peroxide to water mix was. I also dipped a small chunk of chato just to see what would happen. Yay science!

Edit finally finished reading the rest of this thread. Only took me 3 days. I am glad I did, hopefully death will reighn down on my algea. Both in my salt tank and in my fresh tanks.

[brandon429]

thank you for posting and if you find anway of beating red mushrooms pls let me know they are wiping out my tank

[Belac]

Sending you a PM now.

[Begow]

Did some reading on here, 41 pages is a lot!!!!

 

I think I have a small outbreak of Bryopsis in my new 8g Aqueon Evolve. I have no tank inhabitants, 0 life! One of the rocks I bought from my LFS has small Bryopsis on it, and i'd like to stop prior to. Is there a way to dose my tank, or what is the best way for this to work? I don't have a huge enough bucket to dose..

 

I guess I could use my cooler, but not sure if I have enough tank water on hand to cover the rock.

 

 

Thanks a lot guys.

[brandon429]

I think the consensus would be to take out the rock and treat externally then put back in

[duganderson]

I have a chunk of bryopsis (see photo) on my rock. It is about 1.5 inches tall.

 

I pulled it out and treated it with non-diluted peroxide and it grew back quickly without much impact.

 

Any suggestions? Does peroxide work on this stuff?

 

Thanks, Doug