Peroxide saves my Tank! With pics to Prove It!

[albertthiel]

Thats a great report thanks Hannahs

 

Sean I agree with you, I say that stuff mainly to timestamp it because in 5 yrs everyone will love peroxide and it wont be so controversial lol

if you read reefcentral chem forum threads on peroxide use, they are universally against it, making the claims Ive countered in the posts...love em though for being snake oil preventers, you try and post bs crap over there and you'll get your head ripped off by master chemists lol, so I tread lightly when disagreeing with them lol im no chemist

 

Yes indeed one has to be very careful when posting on the Chem forum there and better be able to back up whatever is posted or they will chew you up indeed Brandon.

 

I happen to know Boomer pretty well but unless what one posts is backed up by repeatable facts and results several on the Chem forum including him will hit you with a response that may feel like a RAM truck just hit you.

 

However reading all the threads is certainly IMO a worthwhile proposition.

[brandon429]

posted just now from TMZ in the chem forum at rc:

 

For persistent patches you may not be able to scrub off or reach easily some kalk paste( calcium hydroxide mixied to a slurry consitency ) sprinkeld on them with a syringe fitted with a piece of air tubing on the end does kill it. I would not use a lot at one time as it will add calcium and alkalinity and bump ph if you dose a lot at one time.

I would not use much H2O2( hydrogen peroxide ) in tank at one time either since it's a very strong oxidant that kills things indiscriminately and the tolerance of various organisms is unknown ; it's effects at specific levels on organics is also unknown. It is miscible and spreads out in the water.Kalk paste will dissolve and spread too but remains localized for a long enough time to deal with the bryopsis. If the paste blows around it should be puffed off any coral it settles on as it may irritate them.

Persosnaly, I use some H2O2 for dips and out of tank treatments but not in my aquariums .

Bryopsis can be limited and eradicated with PO4 control over time but may be more tolerant of lower PO$ levels than other green algaes.

 

Cleaning up accumulated detritus helps too.

 

It does not matter that we have literally thousands of examples of whole tank dosing ranging almost two years now, once a skeptic always a skeptic. It amazes me they endorse dumping vodka in your tank with the other hand...alcohol too is antimicrobial in the right concentrations, but since that action is acceptable we're waiting patiently for peroxide to become that way too

[brandon429]

There is not one example of indiscriminate losses in any post on this thread.

[albertthiel]

Yep, I can tell Boomer is a smart guy but he hasnt posted over there in maybe more than two years, wonder where he's at?

 

I will say this though, the chem guys got a little ahead of themselves on peroxide prediction. Even boomer said in some of the 2009 threads I linked here a couple months ago that adding it to a full tank would be devastating, and thats actually not the case. They aren't willing to jump blindly into new practices so thats a plus, but on the flip side getting them to acknowledge the 2000 or so people we have posting constant data on the threads is also challenging, they tend to hold their position regardless of whats being posted.

 

It was the same with pico reefs a decade ago lol, just takes a while to win em over

 

Boomer seems to be active on Manhattan Reefs now I believe Brandon.

 

On full tank dosing I agree ... I have on several occasions dosed 5 ml to my 20 gallon tank with no ill effects except for the Zoas closing up for an amount of time and then re-opening.

 

The other corals including the Leathers are not even showing a reaction to it at all and neither do the fish.

 

You have probably read about the oxydators that use ceramic to dissociate it and produce free oxygen and water. The interesting thing is that H2O2 reacts in the same fashion with a lot of metallic compounds but better with some than with others.

 

With copper there is very little reaction, same for iron, but the one that it really reacts with is lead.

 

I have to run some more tests before I can give all the details on how one can actually make a DIY one, so CAUTION to those who read this ... do not try this yet ... I need to figure out a few more things

[albertthiel]

posted just now from TMZ in the chem forum at rc:

 

For persistent patches you may not be able to scrub off or reach easily some kalk paste( calcium hydroxide mixied to a slurry consitency ) sprinkeld on them with a syringe fitted with a piece of air tubing on the end does kill it. I would not use a lot at one time as it will add calcium and alkalinity and bump ph if you dose a lot at one time.

I would not use much H2O2( hydrogen peroxide ) in tank at one time either since it's a very strong oxidant that kills things indiscriminately and the tolerance of various organisms is unknown ; it's effects at specific levels on organics is also unknown. It is miscible and spreads out in the water.Kalk paste will dissolve and spread too but remains localized for a long enough time to deal with the bryopsis. If the paste blows around it should be puffed off any coral it settles on as it may irritate them.

Persosnaly, I use some H2O2 for dips and out of tank treatments but not in my aquariums .

Bryopsis can be limited and eradicated with PO4 control over time but may be more tolerant of lower PO$ levels than other green algaes.

 

Cleaning up accumulated detritus helps too.

 

It does not matter that we have literally thousands of examples of whole tank dosing ranging almost two years now, once a skeptic always a skeptic. It amazes me they endorse dumping vodka in your tank with the other hand...alcohol too is antimicrobial in the right concentrations, but since that action is acceptable we're waiting patiently for peroxide to become that way too

Interesting and shows how little understanding their is about using H2O2

 

And the statement on PO4 and Bryopsis is IME erroneous. I have zero or near zero (undetectable) nitrates and phosphates, yet the other day I found Bryopsis in the tank anyway, and yesterday, as you may have seen on my thread I found 2 small red bubble algae even tough my nutrients levels cannot even be detected.

 

Low nutrients will NOT eliminate Bryopsis ... and obviously not red bubble algae either.

 

(I removed the bubble algae easily as they were on a small piece of rock that I could just take out and then with a knife I got the bubble algae off without bursting them, placed them on a cloth and took some pictures of them which I posted to my thread, but that post may now be 1 or 2 pages before the last one, actually for those interested in seeing them and reading the post here is the link to it:

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?...t&p=4022784

[sean151]

IME Bryopsis can create patches through localized spots of nutrients, but once it's there it can be in the cleanest water and never look lighter. I think it may have to do with it's ability to grow in thick patches allowing it to trap detritus and causing more local spikes of PO4 and Nitrogen based compounds.

[brandon429]

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/f72/do...vantages-64621/

 

this is a post from Boomer on another forum, in all fairness to Boom he's really not been against the practice he just advises to be careful... its the other posters on various forums that are still assuming its destructive

 

 

Boomer loves the oxydator!

 

Sean I do agree it works like that, a miniature catch all and a self degrading locale for nutrient reserves.

[Stark77]

I use a 50/50 mix of 3oz 3% peroxide and 3oz tank water in a turkey baster to spot treat green hair and turf algae - all powerheads turned off. It zaps most of the algae immediately, and within 24 hours most is gone. My issue is on the rock closest to the top of the tank; RSM130 and BC29.

Only negative is that polyps on zoas/palys, mushrooms, sps polyps, and LPS heads retract for a few hours. Inverts and fish don't seem to mind at all. I've been doing this for a little over a hear with no ill effects or losses of colonies.

[brandon429]

That's a great report inline with what we usually see. I mentioned in another forum that it will be interesting to see if we are still using it in five years or so, if not what's replaced it etc

 

Its a total cheat but an acceptable short cut for sure. Usually I never leave food in my tank for more than a few hours before a water change to prevent waste buildup in the small pico, but I fed two days ago and there's some hair algae in an area and on the glass because of it and it doesn't even matter...about to finally get around to the change and there's a dropper with 35% awaiting...three drops strategically placed and its gone again till December its awesome.

 

In years past that's enough algae to start an infestation, cause me to make new animal purchases around it, worry about it not receding and maybe not ever beating it back like we read in so many tanks. With cheat fluid on hand its a non issue even though not caring about water quality is poor husbandry

 

Before pics (bubbles don't usually stick all over front glass its due to all the green hair algae holding them and producing photosynthesis bubbles)

 

I'm far more concerned about the heart shaped blob of acropora that is overtaking my bowl, its parent colony removed years ago...thought I got it all now its too late. One day in'14 this invasive weed will block out all the glass and encase the bowl-first ever loss of tank from acropora invasion. Direct application of peroxide doesn't phase it, it just overgrows the burned areas

Edited September 16, 2012 by brandon429

[albertthiel]

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/f72/do...vantages-64621/

 

this is a post from Boomer on another forum, in all fairness to Boom he's really not been against the practice he just advises to be careful... its the other posters on various forums that are still assuming its destructive

 

 

Boomer loves the oxydator!

 

Sean I do agree it works like that, a miniature catch all and a self degrading locale for nutrient reserves.

 

Yes it seems he does and it is still available from Schochting the ones who introduced it decades ago.

 

I have several posts on my thread about the oxydator .. use the search feature to find the various posts and where to order it from if you are interested.

[jayiNH]

I am here to read up, I have a 125 and will be dosing to eliminate bryopsis. thanks brandon for the link and all the help. jay

[duganderson]

Anybody try dipping a rock with RBTAs on it?

 

I've got one rock with two RBTA on it that do NOT want to come off easily. Any tips on treating this rock or spot treating the hair algae spots on this rock.

[brandon429]

prior posts here show all anemones except for mushroom corallimorphs as sensitives, so no dipping

 

you would need to post a full tank shot pic first so we can get a plan, and some up close shots of the offending areas lol of bad algae

 

what most people do when they have sensitives on a rock is to lift out the rock and use any number of methods to apply algae only to the bad spots, missing the sensitive organisms. there are little paint brushes, small injection systems that diabetics use, all kinds of ways to position a drop carefully. then you rinse off the area after a minute of baking and return the rock back to the tank

[duganderson]

what most people do when they have sensitives on a rock is to lift out the rock and use any number of methods to apply algae only to the bad spots, missing the sensitive organisms. there are little paint brushes, small injection systems that diabetics use, all kinds of ways to position a drop carefully. then you rinse off the area after a minute of baking and return the rock back to the tank

 

Do you paint or squirt on non-diluted 3% or do you use stronger or dilute?

 

Do you rinse with salt water or fresh water?

 

Thanks....this thread is great.

 

I read a lot of the thread but did not see this......does Hydrogen Peroxide work on Cyno?

[brandon429]

It wont matter if its diluted or not either way is fine.

 

It works on cyano, however most recommend changing flow and using snails to clean it up.

 

The reason peroxide kills all invaders in my bowl is because I spot treat anything, I never dose the whole tank.

Ran like that, peroxide kills every plant and bacterial invader that colonizes substrate and becomes a headache

 

For the tanks that can't spot treat and have to dose the water, results vary but we can still impact their invaders pretty well with a custom approach.

[atoll]

Yes it seems he does and it is still available from Schochting the ones who introduced it decades ago.

 

I have several posts on my thread about the oxydator .. use the search feature to find the various posts and where to order it from if you are interested.

 

The Oxydator, the best kept secret in marine reef and fish keeping. There are sceptics of course but they have never used one or appear to quite understand its simple workings. No electricity, never wears out, cheap to buy, cheap to run, helps reduce and eliminate problem algae like cyno, increases redox, increases the oxygen concentration of the water, aids biological filtration, polishes the water and reduces yellowing. easy to use, no real drawbacks. Win win situation using them IME.

 

How do i know all this? Well after around 25 years using the various models I have experienced and seen the results. many seahorse breeders are now using them in their fry tanks with great success along with many others.

[duganderson]

I had some questions about my treatment......

 

Tonight, I treated the two rocks in the middle of the photo. These two rocks make up about 45% of my total rock weight. I have two RBTA on one of the rocks and some xenia so I used pulled the rocks out and brushed on non-diluted 3% peroxide onto the hair algae for about 2 minutes or so. I then rinsed the rocks and put them back in the tank. I brushed peroxide onto about 20% of total rock surface area on these two rocks (the % of rock with green hair algae on it). The tank is a 28 g. nano cube. I have some questions.....

 

I did not really have success pulling the hair algae off the rocks before I treated it. It is really strong stuff. Should I try to manually remove some of this as it's dying?

 

Should I do a water change soon due to the die off of the algae? How soon and what percentage of water? (I normally do 5 gallons every 3 weeks.

 

How long should I wait before I treat other rocks in the tank?

 

Does this spot treatment kill coraline algae, good bacteria, etc. or just hair algae and cyno?

 

Any other tips or suggestions.

 

Thank you VERY much! This thread has been very helpful.

Edited October 18, 2012 by duganderson

[brandon429]

the bacteria can't be measured for loss if it does kill it.

We haven't detected filter bed loss in any tank, any dose, so you are safe there.

 

coralline bleaches but topically, it comes back faster than it took to initiall show up. its considered peroxide sensitive but it won't wipe out all your coralline

 

I never advise to manually remove algae, it makes for better after pics to see it all white and dead.

 

You will read its leaching phosphates and nitrates back into the water but I disagree, our daily feed is 10x the phosphate stores of even a large grip of hair algae, so I say just let it die and keep the pics coming.

 

If your bta gets mad for a week that will be in line with what we've seen, if the rinse wasn't perfect the residual can make them mad, but we've never lost an rbta with this treatment.

 

The water changes have no specific volume or timing, you can't over do them, only under-do.

 

You can change any volume any frequency, just make sure you pour the new water back in slowly to not kick up organics.

 

Pour across the top rock and let it trickle down slowly

 

I recommend changing a few rounds of a good amount of the tank water, just to export any peroxide missed in the rinse, and because water changes are the life breath for your tank, we constantly underdo them in nano reefing. Wait a while before re treating the missed areas, see how your non targets do with the treatment you just did. Any algae is a goner, there may be a few patches left but you can hit that again in no hurry next week

 

thanks for running the mode and for the pics, I think you will love it

 

B

[albertthiel]

The Oxydator, the best kept secret in marine reef and fish keeping. There are sceptics of course but they have never used one or appear to quite understand its simple workings. No electricity, never wears out, cheap to buy, cheap to run, helps reduce and eliminate problem algae like cyno, increases redox, increases the oxygen concentration of the water, aids biological filtration, polishes the water and reduces yellowing. easy to use, no real drawbacks. Win win situation using them IME.

 

How do i know all this? Well after around 25 years using the various models I have experienced and seen the results. many seahorse breeders are now using them in their fry tanks with great success along with many others.

 

It is indeed and I am actually surprised that more people are not using it yet and as a result of doing so not having to deal with outbreaks of all kinds of pest algae. Good points Les. Thanks.

 

I know you have been using it for a long long time and what you have experienced as a result is testimony to the fact that it works indeed as advertised.

[danimal1211]

I have a frag of Armor of God zoas that I glued to one of my rocks. The frag had some GHA as well as a very small piece of an unknown macro. I initially pulled off the macro and scrubbed the GHA before adding the frag. They both came back. I removed the frag and used a syringe to apply H2O2 directly to both areas two days ago. Both the GHA and the macro bleached, but not completely. This morning before the lights came on I noticed an asterina star on that frag so I pulled it back out removed the star and decided to do another spot treatment. This time I noticed the zoas themselves bubbling from the H2O2 and quickly put them back in the tank. I lightly blew off any remnants with a turkey baster and the tissue still appears healthy. Fortunately the GHA was sloughing off, i just hope I didn't burn my AOG's.

[brandon429]

I dont believe its possible to kill zo's even with a 5 min dip in undiluted 3%, those are rated as the most tolerant among corals. im sure we'll find a counter example one day, but Im not feeling that today I place bets yours are fine! did you get before and aft pics

 

than ks for updating

[jec11718]

well, After following this thread since I joined, a colony of zoas that had some small gha... it has went beserk.. now a full fledged out of control!! I dosed direct to the rock, and then dosed a small quantity into my unskimmered 20tall. I have been fighting cyano for months and months....no di water just ro thats all thats available in my area, until just last week, one of our lfs got a di add-on to his ro. finally 0tds water! After pics when I see results!! If you notice, cyano everywhere, on sand, rocks, tank glass, the coraline is there too. the zoas are all closed after I squirted them direct with h202.

Edited November 5, 2012 by jec11718

[metrokat]

Hi Brandon. I have a particular algae in my tank that grows from a single hold fast. It only attaches in small tufts on the back glass wall of my tank. I had a frag rack on that wall and I found this algae slowly attached to some frag plugs. On the glass wall it is super easy to remove. But not so easy on the frag plugs. I took one sacrificial frag and dipped it into straight peroxide. The algae seems to be be still there.

 

I've never seen anything resist peroxide. And I have not received a positive ID on the algae either. Some suggested bryopsis but that has positively been treated by peroxide, and bryopsis doesn't have one holdfast to my knowledge. John Maloney didn't think mine was Enteromorpha so I am not sure what it could be. My problem isn't a chronic one, but this algae has been in my tank since April.

 

Thoughts?

[brandon429]

Thank you both for posting Kat that's a really thick bodied specimen its the first I've seen

 

I don't think it can withstand 35% though...just eternal treat only or single drop drained spot treatment

 

That's what i do in my little

pico

 

 

I wonder if its resistant due to genetics for free radical control or a thicker structure...health food stores typically sell the strong stuff, be mindful of eye safety! When i do in tank drain runs, i do a double water change after to really clean it back out and minimize contact time in tank

 

 

Also consider little blips with a blue jet windproof style high end cig lighter, the blue laser tip type.

 

When the tank is drained, this little shot of fire can be precisely delivered, we could evaluate test growth areas for regrowth and holdfast ability with this chemical free approach.

[metrokat]

Kat that's a really thick bodied specimen its the first I've seen

Think it might be turf algae? But I've had success with peroxide and turf algae before. maybe my bottle of peroxide is old. I just bought a new one so I will try again. Otherwise I'll go get this:

Edited November 5, 2012 by metrokat