tibbsy07 Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Yes bacteria are remved by skimmers but they have already released from their biofilms and been replaced by more. That and UV light (including from our tank lights) kills them so they are most likely dead when they hit the skimmer. Microbacter 7, microvore and phytochrome huh? 1 Quote Link to comment
metrokat Posted June 12, 2014 Author Share Posted June 12, 2014 Yes bacteria are remved by skimmers but they have already released from their biofilms and been replaced by more. That and UV light (including from our tank lights) kills them so they are most likely dead when they hit the skimmer. Microbacter 7, microvore and phytochrome huh? and neomarin. Quote Link to comment
ZephNYC Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Note to self. Get microvore. you can have mine, it stinks. Is his version of Kents Microvert. Which I like better .Youre a marketers dream come true girl. Quote Link to comment
tibbsy07 Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Is brightwell a marine scientist? Quote Link to comment
metrokat Posted June 12, 2014 Author Share Posted June 12, 2014 you can have mine, it stinks. Is his version of Kents Microvert. Which I like better .Youre a marketers dream come true girl. I'LL TAKE IT! Is brightwell a marine scientist? He said he was a scientist. Quote Link to comment
tibbsy07 Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Did he say what kind or just that he was? Edit: his page says marine scientist. 1 Quote Link to comment
metrokat Posted June 12, 2014 Author Share Posted June 12, 2014 7:50 am DT is on runrise Fuge is on 78.7 8.20 Quote Link to comment
Veng Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 you can have mine, it stinks. Is his version of Kents Microvert. Which I like better .Youre a marketers dream come true girl. She's just someone who's willing to try new things and not use the stuff that doesn't work and concentrate on the things that do. Seems to me it's one of the many reasons she's got a tank that puts most of us to shame. 3 Quote Link to comment
tibbsy07 Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 One thing I am interested in is the brightwell food line up. He says formulated by a marine scientist, but why so many foods geared at the same organisms? There are at least 5 phyto products. Why? The phytochrome seems to be a well-balanced product that would make any filter feeder happy (I do think the "propietary" amino acid is BS though). Why does he need 2 golds and 2 greens in addition? Filter feeders are probably not picky about what they feed on. Edit: Was looking on my phone, but now at work I see many of the products are only different in that they are different sizes, presumably for different sized corals/filter feeders. Makes sense.I'm interested to see how it works for you, kat. And the salt. All the salt I am looking at is <$30/50g which would last me forever. There is no real justification for me not to try a new salt when I need to purchase more. IORC, RSCP, NeoMarine... why not? Quote Link to comment
metrokat Posted June 12, 2014 Author Share Posted June 12, 2014 Last night after the Chris Brightwell round table discussion I bought some foods and asked again about the Red Sea Refractometer. To my delight they said that Scott from RS literally just came in, calibrated it and gave it to us to try out. So I asked if they have another one I could buy. They didn't so they just gave me the one they had to try out. Just tested my water using the new Red Sea Refractometer. The salinity is off. Shows higher than the highest reading, my guess is 1.035 Tested the same water with the old refractometer and it shows a perfect 1.026. Using 35ppt calibration fluid: Red Sea shows 40ppt Old refractometer shows a perfect 35ppt The Red Sea Refractometer is the newest addition to the market, supposed to be the bees knees because it measures absolute salinity. Most refractometers used within the aquarium hobby are not specifically designed for reef aquariums and use an algorithm for the measurement of brine (NaCl – rather than seawater) and at a temperature of 15oC/59 0F rather than 25oC/77 0F. Thus, a measurement deviation of up to 1.5ppt is possible, which can have a significant adverse effect on coral growth and coloration. The Red Sea refractometer comes with instructions that require calibration with DI water. With other refractometers, the calibration is supposed to be done with the 35ppt fluid. Quote Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Sounds like it's time for some bigass water changes. Quote Link to comment
metrokat Posted June 12, 2014 Author Share Posted June 12, 2014 Quite the opposite Benny. The salinity has to change slowly. Quote Link to comment
tibbsy07 Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Did you calibrate the RS refractometer with DI? Quote Link to comment
MikeTR Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I'd get some validation of your readings before you go monkeying around with your salinity. I'm going to get a milwaukee digital. More often than not, I end up needing to test when lighting sucks, and it's a pain to get a definitive refraction line with flourescents in the garage. 1 Quote Link to comment
metrokat Posted June 12, 2014 Author Share Posted June 12, 2014 Main features of Red Sea’s Seawater Refractometer include: Directly reads the absolute salinity of seawater at 25°C/77 0F ( No need for seawater or temperature compensation factors) Specifically designed for the ionic content of seawater (NSW) for more accurate salinity measurement (industry standard refractometers are calibrated for salt brine ). Calibrated for seawater (NSW) at 25oC/77oF, the normal temperature range for reef aquariums(most standard refractometers are calibrated at 15oC/59oF ). Easier to read, higher resolution display, focussed to the relevant range for reef aquariums of up to 40ppt Includes Integrated Automatic Temperature Compensation (ATC) for accurate measurement at standard ambient temperature. Red Sea’s Refractometer display The PPT scale on Red Sea’s Seawater refractometer is calculated using an algorithm for seawater and therefore will give a reading of the Absolute Salinity of seawater. The PPT scale on regular salinity refractometers are calculated using an algorithm for Brine. Using a Brine refractometer for Seawater will give an error of approximately 1.5ppt in the salinity reading. Red Sea’s Seawater Refractometer display Typical Salinity Refractometer display About Salinity Salinity is a general term describing the concentration of salt in water. However, solutions of different type of salts have different refractive indexes. Brine is a solution of Sodium Chloride (table salt) that contains 2 chemical elements. Seawater contains approximately 70 chemical elements that include Calcium, Magnesium, Potassium etc. in addition to the Sodium Chloride. Seawater and Brine of the same salinity (i.e. the same weight of salt/liter) have different refractive indexes and will give different salinity readings if measured on the same refractometer. Refraction & refractive index All transparent materials such as liquids refract (distort) light. All transparent materials refract light differently and have what is called a “refractive index” which means how much a particular material distorts light. Different concentrations of the same liquid have different refractive indexes. The scale of a refractometer is calculated by using a mathematical algorithm that relates the measured refraction to its concentration for a specific liquid. Refractive index and temperature The refractive index of liquids change with temperature and therefore has a major effect on measuring salinity with a refractometer. The algorithm for defining the PPT (and S.G.) scale for a refractometer is calculated for a specific temperature. PPT readings from refractometers that are not calibrated for reef aquariums (i.e. 25oC) need to be adjusted according to a conversion table to give the actual PPT at the aquarium temperature. This is often a cause for misinterpretation of refractometer readings. For example, using a seawater refractometer calibrated at 20oC will give a PPT reading that is approximately 1-1.5ppt lower than the absolute salinity of the same water sample at the normal aquarium temperature of 25oC. Therefore, Red Sea’s Seawater Refractometer calibrated at 25°C/77 0F directly reads the absolute salinity of seawater with no need for temperature compensation factor) ATC – Automatic temperature compensation Temperature is probably the biggest cause of wrong readings with a refractometer. Calibration and testing of water samples should be done after the refractometer and water sample have equalized at the correct temperature. Automatic temperature compensation (ATC) compensates for a few degrees of difference between the ambient temperature and the calibrated temperature of the refractometer. Larger temperature variations will give an error of approximately 1.0ppt in the salinity reading. ATC does not adjust the PPT reading of a refractometer to the temperature of the aquarium! Quote Link to comment
ZephNYC Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I like and use the Hanna HI 96822 Digital seawater refractometer. Always been told its the best. Quote Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Quite the opposite Benny. The salinity has to change slowly. So have you ever immediately lost a coral when you brought it home? I doubt it Did you calibrate the RS refractometer with DI? yes You know that you can't do that and get an accurate reading of anything other than 0ppt, right? You just skewed your own results. If you're calibrating to get a reading to a certain point, you must calibrate to that point, not another point. Quote Link to comment
metrokat Posted June 12, 2014 Author Share Posted June 12, 2014 I'd get some validation of your readings before you go monkeying around with your salinity. I'm going to get a milwaukee digital. More often than not, I end up needing to test when lighting sucks, and it's a pain to get a definitive refraction line with flourescents in the garage. Christmas is nearly here, Oh Secret-Santa-Lending-Library-Neighbor-to-be. So have you ever immediately lost a coral when you brought it home? No because I acclimate corals, something you scoff at. The Red Sea refractometer comes with instructions that require calibration with DI water. With other refractometers, the calibration is supposed to be done with the 35ppt fluid. You know that you can't do that and get an accurate reading of anything other than 0ppt, right? You just skewed your own results. Pay attention Benny. Using 35ppt calibration fluid: Red Sea shows 40ppt Old refractometer shows a perfect 35ppt Quote Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Never calibrate equipment for a range you are not testing for. Right tibbs? 2 Quote Link to comment
jbb Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Main features of Red Sea’s Seawater Refractometer include: Directly reads the absolute salinity of seawater at 25°C/77 0F ( No need for seawater or temperature compensation factors) Specifically designed for the ionic content of seawater (NSW) for more accurate salinity measurement (industry standard refractometers are calibrated for salt brine ). Calibrated for seawater (NSW) at 25oC/77oF, the normal temperature range for reef aquariums(most standard refractometers are calibrated at 15oC/59oF ). Easier to read, higher resolution display, focussed to the relevant range for reef aquariums of up to 40ppt Includes Integrated Automatic Temperature Compensation (ATC) for accurate measurement at standard ambient temperature. am I the only one confused by this ? 1 Quote Link to comment
jedimasterben Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 am I the only one confused by this ? Most with ATC are only able to compensate a small temperature change, but going from 59F to 70-80F is a bit much. Quote Link to comment
MikeTR Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Using 35ppt calibration fluid: Red Sea shows 40ppt Old refractometer shows a perfect 35ppt Red Sea’s Refractometer display The PPT scale on Red Sea’s Seawater refractometer is calculated using an algorithm for seawater and therefore will give a reading of the Absolute Salinity of seawater. The PPT scale on regular salinity refractometers are calculated using an algorithm for Brine. Using a Brine refractometer for Seawater will give an error of approximately 1.5ppt in the salinity reading. ? 5ppt ? Quote Link to comment
jbb Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Most with ATC are only able to compensate a small temperature change, but going from 59F to 70-80F is a bit much. I realize that , but one statement says it isn't needed "No need for seawater or temperature compensation factors", but then they go on to say that it is included "for accurate measurement at standard ambient temperature". so is it needed or no ? Quote Link to comment
tibbsy07 Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Never calibrate equipment for a range you are not testing for. Right tibbs?This. You need to calibrate the refrac however the instructions say to your di water and that alone. The calibration fluid for 35ppt is designed to work with the other refractometer's algorithm. Not red sea, so it's off when you check with the RS refrac. Ignore that comparison. Also, who keeps their place at 77 degrees? I feel like most people keep things cooler than that? 1 Quote Link to comment
jbb Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I'm not one to pick apart someones product without trying it, but this seems a bit misleading 1 Quote Link to comment
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