Kat's Ol' Max

[metrokat]

It maybe too early to come to a conclusion but since the temperature is somewhat steady in the tank, the changing values of pH is probably not temperature related.

 

Also, since I have been back, the famine has turned to feast. With the addition of foods, the pH should have gone down. It has not.

 

Again, I'm not chasing pH nor am I debating the accuracy of my temperature and pH probe. I'm just really extremely curious why my pH appears to be higher at night (granted my fuge is on reverse cycle) than it is in the day.

 

Today I'll take some measurements when the fuge is off for more curiosity.

 

Oh. Good morning peoples.

[tibbsy07]

Morning kat. Definitely doesn't seem temp-related, but a pH of 8.06 vs 8.12 is not rwally different. That's minimal - within the error range of even some lab grade probes (and your probe isn't lab grade). Likely not even a real difference just a probe error.

 

I'm interested to see your fuge results!

[Veng]

Good morning Kat!

[metrokat]

10:15 am

Fuge off.

78.8

8.13

[joy13]

I know that awhile back on some forum that there was a problem with ph in a reef tank it kept dropping it was suggested to run an air tube outside. The guy drilled a small hole in the side of his house to run the tube through. The fresh air kept the ph more stable I think someone said that it has to do with CO2. I can see a problem with that if someone was doing something out in the yard that would be sucked into the sump area like spraying or some other yard work.

[metrokat]

Yay. Time to order salt. I like salt discussions, can we start one?

 

I'm quoting myself below

 

Salt is a personal choice IMO. I've used RSCP, ESV and now use reef crystals by IO. I prefer the lighter water quality of the IO/RC.

The RSCP left too much a of a residue for my liking.

 

I still have a big sack of reef crystals salt to use but I'm already thinking of switching to red sea normal salt (not the pro). Or maybe oceanic. The RC is a wonderful salt if you're doing regular water changes but depletes easily when you're not as frequent with water changes. I also find that to fix the levels via dosing causes swings because the depletion rate of the parameters changes daily.

I'm currently using IO Reef Crystals. I've used RSCP in the past. I've also used ESV and the tank was happy but I'm not going back to ESV. The SPS are growing LPS seem happy. The only issue I keep having to deal with is the waxing and waning of Zoanthid colonies.

 

I'm thinking I should stick to IORC. I've been better with my water changes and do not see the alk/cal swings I used to. But I'm still torn. I would give priority to a salt that has a better trace element composition.

 

Anybody using the regular Red Sea salt (not the coral pro)?

Has anybody used the regular Red Sea salt and IOReef Crystals and has any notes?

 

Thoughts? Thanks

I know that awhile back on some forum that there was a problem with ph in a reef tank it kept dropping it was suggested to run an air tube outside. The guy drilled a small hole in the side of his house to run the tube through. The fresh air kept the ph more stable I think someone said that it has to do with CO2. I can see a problem with that if someone was doing something out in the yard that would be sucked into the sump area like spraying or some other yard work.

Thank you, my pH is normal. It is not low. I'm only curious about what makes it change in my tank.

[jbb]

I'm thinking I should stick to IORC. I've been better with my water changes and do not see the alk/cal swings I used to. But I'm still torn. I would give priority to a salt that has a better trace element composition.

 

What trace elements do you know/feel that you are lacking ?

 

IMO your tank is doing great with your current mixture , why risk it. I would just test for what you feel is lacking, and possibly target those through dosing if you feel the need. To me your tank looks to good to change anything, stick with what you know is working.

[tibbsy07]

I was considering going to IORC from IO myself. The LFS has a pretty decent price on both RSCP an IORC. I figured IORC would be closest to what I am using currently (IO) and would then prevent any major problems if/when I get new salt in a month or two. My salt is also still moist, and clumping. It makes me concerned about the actual efficacy of it.

[ZephNYC]

Your tank looks nice, but that sandbed is SCREAMING for another clam. I know u think there's not enough light down there but I believe you're wrong.

 

 

 

[Boggers]

Derasa clam would look nice, but I would ask you Zeph at what point does it get tricky and they start needing to be fed directly? From what I have read they are excellent filter feeders and can starve in ULNS tanks.....not that Kat has one of those!

[ZephNYC]

Derasa clam would look nice, but I would ask you Zeph at what point does it get tricky and they start needing to be fed directly? From what I have read they are excellent filter feeders and can starve in ULNS tanks.....not that Kat has one of those!

 

Exactly!!!! We all know how Kat straps on the feedbag. I just hope she doesn't start getting silly with to many water changes or I may have to take my clam back. Lol!

Unfortunately, the only indication your clams need help is when you loose a healthy one. Very few clams can make a comeback from near starvation so by the time it signals you that something is wrong, it's usually to late.

[MikeTR]

I use IORC and buy by the 200g box. I get 2-3 boxes at a time for around $45/box shipped. The only problem I ever have with it is if I don't seal up the bag tight enough and the salt gets hard, then I get calcium precipitate. Otherwise it mixes just fine within 30 minutes and goes right in the tank. In rare cases when I start a new batch of mix water and have to leave it for 24 hours I get a brown residue on the side of the container, but I still use it. I keep RO/DI on hand and just make what I need when I need to.

http://www.thatpetplace.com/reef-crystals-enriched-blend-aquarium-salt

$48.75 x 2 boxes = Free shipping

[metrokat]

Your tank looks nice, but that sandbed is SCREAMING for another clam. I know u think there's not enough light down there but I believe you're wrong.

PAR on the sandbed is 115. Measured with a PAR meter.

Cannot sustain a clam.

 

Derasa clam would look nice, but I would ask you Zeph at what point does it get tricky and they start needing to be fed directly? From what I have read they are excellent filter feeders and can starve in ULNS tanks.....not that Kat has one of those!

I purposely feed my clams.

 

I use IORC and buy by the 200g box. I get 2-3 boxes at a time for around $45/box shipped. The only problem I ever have with it is if I don't seal up the bag tight enough and the salt gets hard, then I get calcium precipitate. Otherwise it mixes just fine within 30 minutes and goes right in the tank. In rare cases when I start a new batch of mix water and have to leave it for 24 hours I get a brown residue on the side of the container, but I still use it. I keep RO/DI on hand and just make what I need when I need to.

 

http://www.thatpetplace.com/reef-crystals-enriched-blend-aquarium-salt

$48.75 x 2 boxes = Free shipping

See! This is why we should be neighbors. So I can mooch off of your shipments of salt. I ordered the big box of salt the last time and it lasted me 10 billion years. Yes to the clumping, the bag clumps all the time.

[Boggers]

I purchased a container with an air tight lid, buy my salt in 200G box so it has the salt in sealed bags.

I open one, put in my container and pull from that when I do water changes. refill as needed.

 

 

If you are having issues with clumping due to moisture I would try putting a mesh filter bag filled with rice in there. It should pull moisture out....I think

[MikeTR]

We do need to be neighbors. I'd just run an RO line over to your tank and connect it into the big system. I'll handle the water changes and you can feed the snot out of everything.

[metrokat]

What trace elements do you know/feel that you are lacking ?

 

IMO your tank is doing great with your current mixture , why risk it. I would just test for what you feel is lacking, and possibly target those through dosing if you feel the need. To me your tank looks to good to change anything, stick with what you know is working.

I don't know what I'm missing or how to test for it but it be missing I tell ya.

I'm going to research the composition of a few brands that I was looking into and then answer better.

 

I purchased a container with an air tight lid, buy my salt in 200G box so it has the salt in sealed bags.

I open one, put in my container and pull from that when I do water changes. refill as needed.

 

 

If you are having issues with clumping due to moisture I would try putting a mesh filter bag filled with rice in there. It should pull moisture out....I think

That is a good suggestion, I could get a small bucket or rubbermaid container with a lid.

Not sure about the rice, does not hurt to try.

 

We do need to be neighbors. I'd just run an RO line over to your tank and connect it into the big system. I'll handle the water changes and you can feed the snot out of everything.

[jbb]

I kept an old Salinity bucket and dump everything into that.

 

 

The rice bag works , I use it .

[Boggers]

rice fixes wet phones, why not salt mix.

[metrokat]

No questions for Brightwell?

[metrokat]

10:15 am

Fuge off.

78.8

8.13

4:15 pm

Fuge off

79.1

8.23

[ZephNYC]

No questions for Brightwell?

Yes! How long did he have to wait for all of Kent's patent's to expire before he could duplicate all their products?

Tee hee hee.

 

Oh, if theres enough light to keep that anemone alive, I think almost any clam can too.

 

big brain.

[tibbsy07]

I don't know what to ask him. I know nothing of his background, etc. I have never used any of his products, either.

[jedimaster1138]

I went to ESV salt and am not going back. No more sludge at the bottom of my mixing bukkit. Plus it mixes CRYSTAL CLEAR in 15 minutes. I don't have to prep for a water change 3 days in advance. Yeah it's more work to mix, you have to add 4 components, but that's not exactly rocket science. Yeah and more $, but I look at it as it's also more rich in trace, which the other mixes aren't, so I don't have to rack my brain about putting trace back in, and in what quantity, which I don't want to have to think about, or test (Seriously, the trace/minor element tests are more work than i care to do outside a real lab. If I wanted to do that I would have been a chemical engineer, not an electricity monkey)

 

I'm also convinced your pH is higher at night for 2 reasons:

 

1) You have a big, macro-rich fuge. There's a lot of photosynthesis going on in there eating up all that CO2 and thus raising the pH.

 

2) pH, at least in my tank, and probably all tanks I'd wager, peaks right before lights out, if not for a few minutes after. Add in your macro-rich refugium of photosynthesizing...

 

I burn all 8 T5 bulbs for 8 hours, powering 6 of them off at midnight, then the other two at 1 AM. Refugium lights power on at 11 PM, i.e. one hour before max display lighting clicks down. Tank pH peaks at 00:10 every day of the last 7 days. Then the next measurement on the plot, at 00:20, is lower by around .05 or so. Smooth slope down from there.

 

Makes sense to me - at midnight, the lights have been max power for 8 hours, thus the corals and algae have been soaking up CO2 to photosynthesize for 8 hours. In theory, at midnight, at the instant the lights go out, CO2 concentration in the water should be at the absolute lowest it is during any point in the 24 hour period. At least that's my theory.

 

Now this is all somewhat skewed depending on how often the pH is actually measured, if it's an x-minute moving average, etc. This is all hobbyist grade gear, so there's that. I'd actually be interested in seeing what the pH does closer to the minute the lights actually power off, but there's so many other variables involved, including but not limited to water - to sump - to probe turn over time, that it's not worth changing the Apex sample rate or burning the brain cells trying to grok it.

 

Kitty Kat - if you really want to explore this further (and I admit I'm curious myself), and you don't have an Apex friendly pH probe for plotting purposes, I'd try to log pH readings along with time and light statuses as often as possible but at regular intervals and then plot them with Excel. Or you can just post them and I'll do it, because I'm an insane nerd and continue to be intrigued with pH in our tanks to the point of repeating my curiosity over and over. But you know what this guy said about repeating things over and over...

 

 

[jedimaster1138]

PS I agree with the big guy - get another clam :-D

[tailes]

_{Or forget the clam and come out here for cheesecake?}