tibbsy07 IM10

[teenyreef]

Bear in mind, too, that good old carbon will help with non-organics, unlike Purigen

[jedimasterben]

Purigen doesn't adsorb only organic molecules, it does a bit of inorganics and metals, as well

 

(Just not on the same scale, I should clarify lol)

[teenyreef]

Really? I stand corrected, then. When I read their writeup on the Seachem web site they placed so much emphasis on it's ability to filter organics that I had the impression it didn't do much, if anything, for non-organics.

[Marc.The.Shark]

nope, no metals. Think I am going to try and hold off on the Purigen after the big water change, just in case. Use peroxide to regenerate it from now on.

 

Yeah, we have regular old bleach, but it could have something else in it.

What about a Nano-Mag, have one of those in the tank all the time? IF so, peel it back & see if the magnet is rusting. I've seen a couple of posts on here where they get pretty rusty if you leave them in the tank constantly. I remove mine now after each use. Looked like one hanging out by your powerhead in the top left corner of your tank in one of your pics a couple pages back.

[dillct]

I'd do a large water change assuming your ro/di is operating at its peak. If even the slightest doubt, treat the ro/di water with prime. I'd also add a polyfilter if you can find room. No real need for anything else (carbon/purigen..etc).

[tibbsy07]

What about a Nano-Mag, have one of those in the tank all the time? IF so, peel it back & see if the magnet is rusting. I've seen a couple of posts on here where they get pretty rusty if you leave them in the tank constantly. I remove mine now after each use. Looked like one hanging out by your powerhead in the top left corner of your tank in one of your pics a couple pages back.

Nope, no nanomag. I use an old ID card to scrape my glass.

 

I'd do a large water change assuming your ro/di is operating at its peak. If even the slightest doubt, treat the ro/di water with prime. I'd also add a polyfilter if you can find room. No real need for anything else (carbon/purigen..etc).

I buy my water or take it from our lab's water supply (ultra-pure), so I'm at the mercy of someone else, but I don't think the water source is the issue. I think something might be IN the water from a different source (purigen/bleach, etc.). I am going to do a large water change this weekend (probably all of it), using pre-made saltwater from the LFS. I'll have to add some salt to it to bring it up to par from 1.023 to 1.026, but they use the same salt I do, so it'll be fine.

 

On a side note - I called the USPS today and talked with them about my package. I called yesterday and asked them to hold it, but they said that A.) they couldn't place a hold on a package until they actually HAD it and B.) they couldn't hold packages heading for campus. I called 2 different times, getting answer B first, then leaving out more information got A. I called this morning and they were exceptionally rude, and when I gave them the information, they simply told me that they could not hold the package for me because it was headed to campus. I work DIRECTLY across from the mail area on campus, and it will arrive here today. Unfortunately the University celebrates today as a holiday (which is dumb), so all the offices are closed. I can't even get into the building because it's locked without ID access. So I get to sit at work all day knowing that my snails are across the street, dying in a box, and that I will NOT be able to get them because today is Good Friday, so I wasted 20 bucks and won't get anything but a smelly package. Happy Good Friday!

[Fishstiks]

I'm so sorry about your package, and your tank troubles. That really sucks!

I doubt the pompom will survive, but you may still get some live snails.

 

I may be totally out there by stating this one, but maybe your water is "too clean"? Acans and Xenia seem to lilke dirtier water IMO. Maybe it's just me, but mine do really well when I skip a water change. In all honesty, I havent done a water change on my little 10 gallon in over 2 weeks (eek), but man, my corals are so stinkin happy and fluffy!

 

Maybe do a large water change and pull out the purigen, as suggested, and dont touch it for a couple weeks? I have only my 1 fish, and some inverts, and I feed lightly, but regularly, and I was finding that my tank had NO nutrients in it. Nitrate and Phos were always 0, and I wasnt even getting a film algae on the glass. My blenny was not happ about that, lol.

I've cut back and am only doing water changes every other week, and everything seems a little happier now. I have been keeping an eye on my alk/cal with going so long on water changes, but I think because I have mostly softies in this tank, they dont drop much at all over a 2 week span. If they do, I am prepared to dose and increase water changes, but (knock on wood), my little tank seems to be running on autopilot these days.

Perhaps your tank just needs a little time with no additives and such to get back on track. Just a suggestion :-)

[tibbsy07]

I'm so sorry about your package, and your tank troubles. That really sucks!

I doubt the pompom will survive, but you may still get some live snails.

 

I may be totally out there by stating this one, but maybe your water is "too clean"? Acans and Xenia seem to lilke dirtier water IMO. Maybe it's just me, but mine do really well when I skip a water change. In all honesty, I havent done a water change on my little 10 gallon in over 2 weeks (eek), but man, my corals are so stinkin happy and fluffy!

 

Maybe do a large water change and pull out the purigen, as suggested, and dont touch it for a couple weeks? I have only my 1 fish, and some inverts, and I feed lightly, but regularly, and I was finding that my tank had NO nutrients in it. Nitrate and Phos were always 0, and I wasnt even getting a film algae on the glass. My blenny was not happ about that, lol.

I've cut back and am only doing water changes every other week, and everything seems a little happier now. I have been keeping an eye on my alk/cal with going so long on water changes, but I think because I have mostly softies in this tank, they dont drop much at all over a 2 week span. If they do, I am prepared to dose and increase water changes, but (knock on wood), my little tank seems to be running on autopilot these days.

Perhaps your tank just needs a little time with no additives and such to get back on track. Just a suggestion :-)

 

Yeah, I'm going to restart this sucker. Not totally, but it's time to revamp it a bit, like teeny suggested, and I was thinking along the same lines as you, too. K.I.S.S. - keep it simple stupid(tibbs).

 

I'll update later today.

[metrokat]

Some questions before your re-start.

 

List of corals?

List of fish/crabs/snails?

[metrokat]

I'm actually also leaning towards the tank being too clean and this restart basically means be prepared for a sterile tank once more.

The alternative is not to overfeed the tank but to target feed the reef roids on the corals with all pumps off and letting it sit for 10 minutes. If you have to keep the light turned on past off time to do this 2X a week then do so.

[Mariaface]

Do you rinse the Purigen with some RO/DI after recharging it? Not sure if enough Prime made it into your tank, but it's a reducer and will bring down oxygen levels (especially if overdosed) until it wears off at the 48 hour mark. Maybe that kickstarted something?

[tibbsy07]

Some questions before your re-start.

 

List of corals?

List of fish/crabs/snails?

Corals:

Acans both dead

Xenia and cespitularia - both dying/curled up

Zoas - half angry and half happy

Palys - seem to be fine

Shrooms - OK, moving around and one has a new little shroom next to it

Rics - both OK, one may be splitting

Kenya trees - OK

Gorg - bottom covered in diatoms/brown, polyps above good to go

Gsp - fine

 

Others -

Hermie is great

Beyonce is doing fine

Most snails dead or gone

A few ceriths left, a nassasrius left

[metrokat]

Xenia and that variety of corals love dirty tanks so them being unhappy and the acans dying are telling me it's poor nutrition.

Zoas are moody corals but the others seem to be fine.

hopefully...

My tank is really unhappy...

Parameters are all ok, but the tank isn't looking good.
Salinity 1.026
Temp 79
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
Phosphates 0
Ca 400ish
Mg 1300-1400
pH 8
dKh 7.6 (low, yes but no sps)

In looking at your parameters above

Your nitrate and phosphate is zero. That's an ultra low nutrient tank. You have to have a blip on the readings.

Your magnesium is high - this could explain the inverts being lethargic and dying. Any crabs you had would not have made it out of a moult. The snails would have been unmoving and could have fallen prey to crabs or worms.

A re-start at this point could kill everything. I don't think this is your intention. I support a heavy feeding of reef roids with pumps off for at least 10 minutes and target feeding the corals. Followed by a decent sized water change. Remove all media that strips the tank of nutrients such as purigen and use minimal carbon.

Now. What is likely to happen when you start feeding.

 

You are likely to see some algae somewhere - perhaps more diatoms which have been frustrating you for the last several weeks and was the reason you bought the oxydator. Diatoms are a natural part of a young reef, you've read that, time for them to go. A CUC eats them, but yours died.

 

The bio filter will take some time to ramp up to be able to handle the food you are feeding the corals but we aren't talking daily feedign here. ramp that up slowly as well.

So in conclusion, I don't support the re-start, I think it will make the tank even more sterile. The corals you have aren't really the kind that "eat" but they are in a nutrient poor water which makes them unhappy. Phyto if you have some would enrich the bacterial populations and be a good food source, but reef roids is a good food anyway. You could consider doing any bacterial supplements you can find. I think the tank needs some bacterial love.

[tibbsy07]

Xenia and that variety of corals love dirty tanks so them being unhappy and the acans dying are telling me it's poor nutrition.

Zoas are moody corals but the others seem to be fine.

In looking at your parameters above

Your nitrate and phosphate is zero. That's an ultra low nutrient tank. You have to have a blip on the readings.

Your magnesium is high - this could explain the inverts being lethargic and dying. Any crabs you had would not have made it out of a moult. The snails would have been unmoving and could have fallen prey to crabs or worms.

A re-start at this point could kill everything. I don't think this is your intention. I support a heavy feeding of reef roids with pumps off for at least 10 minutes and target feeding the corals. Followed by a decent sized water change. Remove all media that strips the tank of nutrients such as purigen and use minimal carbon.

Now. What is likely to happen when you start feeding.

 

You are likely to see some algae somewhere - perhaps more diatoms which have been frustrating you for the last several weeks and was the reason you bought the oxydator. Diatoms are a natural part of a young reef, you've read that, time for them to go. A CUC eats them, but yours died.

 

The bio filter will take some time to ramp up to be able to handle the food you are feeding the corals but we aren't talking daily feedign here. ramp that up slowly as well.

So in conclusion, I don't support the re-start, I think it will make the tank even more sterile. The corals you have aren't really the kind that "eat" but they are in a nutrient poor water which makes them unhappy. Phyto if you have some would enrich the bacterial populations and be a good food source, but reef roids is a good food anyway. You could consider doing any bacterial supplements you can find. I think the tank needs some bacterial love.

I was debating between low nutrient and a contaminant in the tank. By restart, I simply meant clean all my equipment off with vinegar, do a 100% water change including cleaning the sandbed. I'm not using new rock or anything like that. Then I was going to use carbon and filter floss alone, no purigen or oxydator, etc. I purchased some microbe-lift special blend this weekend.

 

Perhaps I will do a 50% change for now instead of a 100% change.

[CronicReefer]

In looking at your parameters above

Your nitrate and phosphate is zero. That's an ultra low nutrient tank. You have to have a blip on the readings.

Your magnesium is high - this could explain the inverts being lethargic and dying. Any crabs you had would not have made it out of a moult. The snails would have been unmoving and could have fallen prey to crabs or worms.

What makes you say magnesium would affect his inverts? I have run a magnesium level of 1350-1400 for months and I see no ill effects on anything. I keep a lobster, my snails spawn regularly (I went from about 3 stomatella to over 30) and the hermits I have were there since month one.

[metrokat]

What makes you say magnesium would affect his inverts? I have run a magnesium level of 1350-1400 for months and I see no ill effects on anything. I keep a lobster, my snails spawn regularly (I went from about 3 stomatella to over 30) and the hermits I have were there since month one.

A conversation with John Maloney. My snails had been very lethargic during the same levels.

[metrokat]

HEre's my re-cap of the conversation

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/289493-kats-ol-max/?p=4356801

[jedimasterben]

High potassium won't outright kill inverts - rapid additions will, learned that firsthand. Everything added after the fact was ok, though.

[evanski]

I would echo what Metrokat said...I think nutrients are key, and restarting risks a major recycle like I had. This was of course before I overdosed my tank (I think) with peroxide.

 

Would certainly TRY a feed as she describes with large water changes. Things may perk up (including a little algae bloom), which you can deal with. If that does not work, you can always reboot. This is a less impactful attempt to make things better.

[CronicReefer]

HEre's my re-cap of the conversation

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/289493-kats-ol-max/?p=4356801

Interesting. I was always under the impression saltwater fell between 1300-1500 but going over 1400 would be getting into unnecessary levels.

[metrokat]

Interesting. I was always under the impression saltwater fell between 1300-1500 but going over 1400 would be getting into unnecessary levels.

I'm sure it's much more than just the one thing, but if they all add up it shows up. For example high potassium and magnesium combined probably puts them in a short coma. NSW levels are best for many reasons.

There are experts in this hobby that are touting high potassium as the one dosing regimen they won't stop. Benny killed his inverts with too high of a dose. So how little how often, where to stop, how to measure. It's really relative if you ask me.

[teenyreef]

I don't disagree with the experts here

 

I thought Tibbsy had reported high levels of algae growth, which combined with zero level nitrates/phosphates would normally indicate excess nutrients all getting gobbled up by the algae, from what I've read and experienced. Is that not the case?

 

If it's just diatoms, then low nutrients for sure.

[tibbsy07]

Ok, so here's my game plan.

 

Make a media basket out of egg crate, superglue and zip ties

Remove skimmer and vinegar bathe it, swap out airstone (Chris at PicO thinks I had a bad airstone).

Remove purigen and carbon and filter floss

Feed a pretty heavy load of food - flakes/phytochrome/Reef frenzy mixture for the fish and coral. Target feed corals.

Do a 50% water change with glass cleaning, sand vac.

Replace mediabasket with new filter floss and new carbon only

Add skimmer back in with new airstone (after rinsing vinegar off, of course)

Add newly made salt water

 

Sound good?

 

Also, I got my storm controller in the mail today from JBB. Time to get the nanobox back in business (hopefully it's not fried - the fan was on when I found it the one time).

 

I also need to see if those snails that arrived today all died or if any happened to make it

[metrokat]

Good plan. Let's hope it allows you to see some recovery.

I don't disagree with the experts here

 

I thought Tibbsy had reported high levels of algae growth, which combined with zero level nitrates/phosphates would normally indicate excess nutrients all getting gobbled up by the algae, from what I've read and experienced. Is that not the case?

 

If it's just diatoms, then low nutrients for sure.

Not to speak for Tibbsy, but I think it was just diatoms, not other algae.

[tibbsy07]

Good plan. Let's hope it allows you to see some recovery.

Not to speak for Tibbsy, but I think it was just diatoms, not other algae.

I have no idea if it was just diatoms or other algae specifically. I assumed just diatoms. Those haven't been too bad lately, but the tank has fallen apart since the diatoms started to recede.

 

And yes, hopefully this works...