Pinched Mantle disease

[ZephNYC]

So this is what happened. I had 4 new clams in QT. 2 large maximas and 2 small maximas, and they were doing well at the 6 week point. They never showed a symptom of PM and opened nicely every single day. Now this is where I made my mistake. We are always trying to upgrade our systems for our own curiosity and husbandry but a rule you cant argue with is " If it ain't broke, don't try and fix it". I decided to upgrade the sump and replaced it with one double the size, bringing the total system volume up to 60G. If you know me you know I like BIG sumps for many reasons. Especially this time of year when I can drop bricks of ice in there to help out the chiller. So I filled the new sump with 30G of newly mixed reef crystals. The next day I started getting nervous because the clams weren't opening correctly for the very first time. I figured the water change was large ( 50% ) and a liitle shocking. 3 days later there was no improvement. ALL of them were about 40% open and POSSIBLY showing symptoms of PM. I say possibly because there was no actual pinching, as in folding, to be seen. They just only opened a little. Also, what scared me was the mantles looked thin. A healthy clam has somewhat of a "fluffy" mantle. Especially the larger ones. When they look kind of like paper it is a bad sign. I decided not to dip them at this point and if they did not look better when I return from my trip I would commence with the dipping. 2 days later only one larger Maxima remained alive. My clam sitter disposed of the obvious dead ones, but I did see the sole surviving 5" maxima when I returned 4 days later and it was heavily retracted. So much it was obvious to me it had reached the point of no return.

So was it PM ??

Im going to say no....BUT

 

The obvious possibility is a 50% water change was stressful enough to killl them !!?? Doubtfull. Could it have caused enough stress to awaken a resting pathogen ? very possible.

I firmly believe clams do not like water changes, unless your water is really a mess. I also firmly believe the biggest problem we have with our clams are that our tanks are too clean and the clams get weak - and then they get PM. One line of thought is that all clams carry the PM parasite, but under "normal" conditions it will remain dormant. I agree with this. So What are "normal" conditions for a clam ? Well....basically the same as most of your other reef dwellers, but there are a few glaring differences. Contrary to the usual attempts to keep our systems nutrient level LOW, because stony corals will show better, clams need HIGHER levels or organic nitrogen compounds. Simply put - Phosphates and nitrates, considered EVIL by modern reef keepers, are not only beneficial for keeping clams, but down right necessary for long term health. Many experts will tell you clams do not need to be fed. They are correct since MOST tanks have low levels of organics, Po4 and No3, so the clams are eating. FACT is, if you take a healthy clam, and put it in an EMPTY cycled tank with all the light in the world - THAT CLAM WILL STARVE and perish. And as it begins to starve it gets weak and susceptible to Perkinsus. The fact that my small maximas did not attache to rock work in 6 weeks tells me, even though they still looked good, they were not as strong as they should be . Large clams often do not make an attempt to attach, but healthy small clams ALWAYS DO. ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS. Often, when you first got your clam it tries to attach, but if it doesn't even try anymore Its getting weak.

 

THings to consider:

I refilled the over sized reactor with carbon and phosguard. Perhaps some dust got into the clams and killed them ??? Of course I rinsed the media first and discarded the first gallon of water exiting the reactor. l when I was younger I had a gorgeous Lemnalia tree that was considered very delicate. I remember just changing the carbon and firing up the pump, only to witness a puff of black smoke enter the tank. The tree reacted immediately and soon died. However I do not think this was the case this time.

 

Is the quarantine system even CAPABLE of maintaining a clam for 3 months ? Because most are not.

My Qt tank only had 2 anthias in it. Not enough organics being produced in my opinion. I did feed phyto daily, but a clam can only consume around 1% of all that food you dump in your tank - The reason I like bowl feeding so much. A proper clam qt system should have a heavy bio load and never less than 2ppm nitrates. I say forget the PO4 remover too.

 

In my case I can not be assured these clams died of PM. As I said, I never once saw any pinching. Oh, and I left the best part out. One of the two Yumas I had in there was affected too - and that cant be PM!! I am very happy to see the yuma suffering.

So this is what Im going to do. I have a new Squamosa arriving Friday and Im going to put it right back in there .

changes made to qt system:

1) 5 gallon weekly water change using water from my seahorse system packed with nitrates and organics.

2) Not use carbon. After all my praise of carbon why this? I simply want all the organics it would remove. Consider this a test. I will probably still use phosguard, but I will let it expire from time to time so a LITTLE more Po4 gets in there.

3) drastically increase bio load. Im thinking a large school of chromis and anthias, and i have a filefish in there who ate those few aptasias.

 

Basically I am attempting to replicate how I believe Wayne Shang works his systems. Heavy fish, no media, and water changes simply for the purpose of ADDING nitrates.

This was not the problem in the big system that I lost so many clams in. That system has a proven long term perkinsus infection of classic heavy pinching and gaping. THis system can not be considered "normal conditions". This is also the reason for the new dedicated clam system I was talking about on the THIEL thread. Albert asked why I would start a new system when I haven't even solved the problems of the old system. Albert, precisely! you have answered your own question. WHere am I going to put these clams after I successfully quarantine them for 3 month? Certainly not back in the old death trap! Hence the dedicated living room clam display.

...and Im still working on the old system, but it is a relief not having to deal with clams in there anymore.

wow...im tired.

"poof"

[albertthiel]

So this what happened. I had 4 new clams in QT. 2 large maximas and 2 small maximas, and they were doing well at the 6 week point. They never showed a symptom of PM and opened nicely every single day. Now this is were I made my mistake.

 

Zeph I read this with great interest several times, and admire your perseverance in finding out how to set your Clam tanks up, so that the Clams survive long term and grow.

 

That is indeed also what I would do, knowing myself, when faced with a problem like you have ...

 

I would not give up till I found what the right way was and that is, based on what I am reading between the lines exactly what you have decided to do.

 

+10 to you Zeph for not giving up either.

 

As to the losses: I think you hit it on the nail when you mention the too large water change you made.

 

I remember from a conversation I had with the Manager of a now defunct wholesaler, ran by a lady, up near Nashville, years ago, who had Clams in several display tanks that this subject came up, and that the manager of the facility, if I can call him that, brought that up as a possible issue as well.

 

I lost track of him as he went to Fiji for a few years and I never heard back from him, or I would attempt to put you in touch with him, but I have no idea where he is and, as a matter of fact, I have to think about his name as right now I cannot remember it.

 

The other point that you bring up and that I think is well documented is the fact that the tank water needs to nutrient rich and that over filtered systems are not good for clams at all. Also no copper and no pennies in the water, and IMO no resin filtration as some of those resins although they may work well in non-Clam containing tanks may remove far too many nutrients from the water.

 

I have also wondered for some time whether Gelbstoff is part of what needs to be in the water for the Clams and if so then using large amounts of carbon would not be a good move either. In addition when changing carbon the sudden shock that the Clams may get from that brand new batch suddenly pulling nutrients out of the water may be bringing about too much of a change for the clams and they may react to that negatively as well IMO. Changing the carbon with a batch that has been used for a week or two, so one that is partially spent already may be something to consider as well ...

 

The way I see all of this, however sorry it really is, is that you have learned a lot from this sad experience, and that you are now ready to move on to the next step in your attempt to keep the Clams alive and thriving for years and years.

 

You and I know that we learn a lot from our mistakes, and this may have been one of the best lessons you have gone through in a ling time, albeit an expensive one, losing the Clams, but a learning experience nevertheless that will allow you to set up tanks that are much much better suited for your Clams than what you had before.

 

All the best, and keep us updated from time to time on what else you are doing or changing as I am sure you will ... Thanks

 

Albert

[jedimasterben]

WHere am I going to put these clams after I successfully quarantine them for 3 month?

In Ben's tank of course! You're so generous!

 

 

[ZephNYC]

In Ben's tank of course! You're so generous!

 

 

 

Oh I am!!! And I bet your tank is awesome !!! Hey Albert, can I borrow a penny ???

[ZephNYC]

Zeph I read this with great interest several times, and admire your perseverance in finding out how to set your Clam tanks up, so that the Clams survive long term and grow.

 

Albert

 

Thank you Albert. Whenever I am typing these days I feel like am typing directly to you. Thank you for reading it several times. I am sure you had to considering all the type O's !! I just cleaned it up a little. Im always typing after midnight when Im half in the bag, and when I check it in the AM I am embarrassed of all the errors!!

[albertthiel]

Oh I am!!! And I bet your tank is awesome !!! Hey Albert, can I borrow a penny ???

 

With your tanks I am sure you do not need it Zeph ... :-0

 

Albert

 

Thank you Albert. Whenever I am typing these days I feel like am typing directly to you. Thank you for reading it several times. I am sure you had to considering all the type O's !! I just cleaned it up a little. Im always typing after midnight when Im half in the bag, and when I check it in the AM I am embarrassed of all the errors!!

No worry about typos ... I make them too :-0

 

I go back and read it again since you say you made changes ...

 

did so and my original response remains as it is. I think what you are planning to do will be a good exercise in finding out what differences you notice and on the chemical filtration ... do you agree with my statements which closely match yours actually ...

 

Albert

[ZephNYC]

Zeph I read this with great interest several times, and admire your perseverance in finding out how to

+10 to you Zeph for not giving up either.

 

All the best, and keep us updated from time to time on what else you are doing or changing as I am sure you will ... Thanks

 

Albert

 

Albert,

I will soon be setting up the 125 dedicated clam system. I may even bring it up tonight and get started. I am happy to have the privilege of your advice an opinions as I build my "MASTERPIECE" from the ground up. This will be a very interesting system I promise you.

 

Also, I totally agree with your staements...live and learn.

[metrokat]

never less than 2ppm nitrates. I say forget the PO4 remover too.

 

changes made to qt system:

1) 5 gallon weekly water change using water from my seahorse system packed with nitrates and organics.

2) Not use carbon. After all my praise of carbon why this? I simply want all the organics it would remove. Consider this a test. I will probably still use phosguard, but I will let it expire from time to time so a LITTLE more Po4 gets in there.

 

Basically I am attempting to replicate how I believe Wayne Shang works his systems. Heavy fish, no media, and water changes simply for the purpose of ADDING nitrates.

Starting off with a disclaimer: I have zero knowledge with clams and PM and all the mumbo jumbo you keep talking about which I listen and learn from but don't fully understand. But I will point out some very obvious and glaring things in your post and new routine.

 

First, you always told me clams hate nitrates and phosphates but they love ammonia. What has changed to make you believe they now like nitrates and phosphates?

 

When I first met you, you were doing massive water changes daily, and never did any of the heavy carbon and phos and this and that. You simply did all those daily water changes and your large TGigas were fine. What made you change your routine?

 

Your new routine doesn't account for the removal of iron that you've been such a believer in, what has changed there?

 

Why not simply put the new clam in the sea horse tank which clearly has all the water nutrients that you want in a clam tank? It can be it's own QT.

 

From what you are telling me and all that a noob like me knows, the clams died of freshly mixed saltwater. Plain and simple.

[ZephNYC]

Starting off with a disclaimer: I have zero knowledge with clams and PM and all the mumbo jumbo you keep talking about which I listen and learn from but don't fully understand. But I will point out some very obvious and glaring things in your post and new routine.

 

First, you always told me clams hate nitrates and phosphates but they love ammonia. What has changed to make you believe they now like nitrates and phosphates?

 

When I first met you, you were doing massive water changes daily, and never did any of the heavy carbon and phos and this and that. You simply did all those daily water changes and your large TGigas were fine. What made you change your routine?

 

Your new routine doesn't account for the removal of iron that you've been such a believer in, what has changed there?

 

Why not simply put the new clam in the sea horse tank which clearly has all the water nutrients that you want in a clam tank? It can be it's own QT.

 

From what you are telling me and all that a noob like me knows, the clams died of freshly mixed saltwater. Plain and simple.

 

Oh I like this....

....here we ago....

First let me say although you are new to clams, you've been able to keep yours longer than me lately, so kudos to you!

 

" First, you always told me clams hate nitrates and phosphates but they love ammonia. What has changed to make you believe they now like nitrates and phosphates? "

 

No ...no ..noooo.. I said clams like low nitrates and even a little ammonia. Hate nitrites. Simple misunderstanding. ALL of our corals and inverts need A LITTLE phosphate. But so little that even a po4 reactor will leave enough behind in most situations. Feeding and fish waste will provide enough to feed your corals and media will prevent it from accumulating. This is why I said I will still use a PO4 reactor, but not be a perfectionist about it and let a little accumulate from time to time.

 

"When I first met you, you were doing massive water changes daily, and never did any of the heavy carbon and phos and this and that. You simply did all those daily water changes and your large TGigas were fine. What made you change your routine"

 

Ok, this will take some explaining, and I am really glad, and impressed, that you have asked. I think about this all the time and it is the key to my newer method of keeping clams. Now, remember, when you first saw my system everything looked fine. The sad thing is you were only seeing the survivors of a PM plague. I had ASSUMED all the PM was long gone because THREE YEARS has passed without a problem. THose 2 Gigas clams stayed strong as nearly 50 clams perished at their side. So NAIVELY thinking I had seen the last of Perkinsus I was not concerned about iron removal, or the need for heavy carbon and all this and that. But that PM remained dormant that entire time on those gigas clams. Perhaps because I was NOT running heavy carbon, as you have pointed out.

Now I do large water changes on that system, but not because I feel it needs it. ALL of my other marine tanks, except for the clam QT, get water changes from that main system. so I say ball park 100g/week. I never felt this system require that frequency of changes, but It works out best for all tanks in the long run. I never have to measure anyhing in any of my other systems because they will all basically carry the same chemistry as the mother reef. It was not until I stared adding new clams to that system that I realize that I STILL had Perkinsus in there, forcing me to bring out the weapons/reactors.

So as you have pointed out, This system has ALWAYS gotten lots of daily water changes, and what I am now saying is that is prisicely the problem!!! Yea, the Gigas looks good, but if you saw the losses you would know better.

 

"Your new routine doesn't account for the removal of iron that you've been such a believer in, what has changed there? "

 

Hers why. If you KNOW you have perkisus in your system you would be a fool to not use carbon and lots of it. This is my personal opinion based on my experience. Now for a dedicated clam qt tank, for new arrivals only, i want to treat it a little differently. To put it bluntly, If a clam has PM I want to know about it asap. The carbon use is actually not a big issue to me on this tank. I could take it or leave it and if I do use it it would be primarily for water clarity but at this time I don't plan on using it here. Of course I still run a large reactor on my main system where the Gigas lives only because of the obvious problem. My thoughts have not changed. I simply want to give new arrivals a higher nutrient level than I would maintain in a show system fillled with Acropora and more delicate species.

 

"Why not simply put the new clam in the sea horse tank which clearly has all the water nutrients that you want in a clam tank? It can be it's own QT."

Great minds think alike.

[/img]

Guess who's in there right now? The very first clam I purchased after we met - That Deresa. All other new clams died. It survived the whole ordeal. It was in the main system LONGER than any other new purchase, got all the dips, was in the hospital for 6 weeks, and now is looking good in the seahorse tank. Which, btw, now has 10 T5's on it ( which caused your caluerpa to go sexual.)

 

 

The scary thing is, as I said, this tank gets 30g/week from the big bad pm system, so lets see what happens to the Deresa knowing it is sharing the same tainted water, but subject to plenty or nitrogen and organics. I actually think it will be fine, and for the last three weeks it looks perfect. The organics in that tank are VERY high do to heavy seahorse feedings and nothing but a skimmer. Im waiting for a nitrate kit to arrive but my guess is they are far higher than 2 in there and maybe as high as 20.

That tank (125G) is just too big for a clam qt. The 30 is perfect. Easy to feed, and clean/bleach and start again if the need be. The old me would have never dreamed of keeping a clam in such dirty water as my seahorses produce. Lets see how she does.

 

"From what you are telling me and all that a noob like me knows, the clams died of freshly mixed saltwater. Plain and simple."

 

Thats my story and im stickin with it.

You just said it yourself how I always did massive water changes, and my clams have never done well. I did a massive water change on those 4 in qt and it killed them. The few successfull clam systems I know get less % water changed in a month than mine did in a week, and the very best clam keepers replaced with USED water. Lets do the math.

The way I see it, Ive got nothing to lose, except for more clams

-Z

[metrokat]

That clam will be very happy in that tank. Pull out the caulerpa, add other macros. With high nutrients they should flourish.

[albertthiel]

Oh I like this....

....here we ago....

First let me say although you are new to clams, you've been able to keep yours longer than me lately, so kudos to you!

 

" First, you always told me clams hate nitrates and phosphates but they love ammonia. What has changed to make you believe they now like nitrates and phosphates? "

 

No ...no ..noooo.. I said clams like low nitrates and even a little ammonia. Hate nitrites. Simple misunderstanding. ALL of our corals and inverts need A LITTLE phosphate. But so little that even a po4 reactor will leave enough behind in most situations. Feeding and fish waste will provide enough to feed your corals and media will prevent it from accumulating. This is why I said I will still use a PO4 reactor, but not be a perfectionist about it and let a little accumulate from time to time.

 

"When I first met you, you were doing massive water changes daily, and never did any of the heavy carbon and phos and this and that. You simply did all those daily water changes and your large TGigas were fine. What made you change your routine"

 

Ok, this will take some explaining, and I am really glad, and impressed, that you have asked. I think about this all the time and it is the key to my newer method of keeping clams. Now, remember, when you first saw my system everything looked fine. The sad thing is you were only seeing the survivors of a PM plague. I had ASSUMED all the PM was long gone because THREE YEARS has passed without a problem. THose 2 Gigas clams stayed strong as nearly 50 clams perished at their side. So NAIVELY thinking I had seen the last of Perkinsus I was not concerned about iron removal, or the need for heavy carbon and all this and that. But that PM remained dormant that entire time on those gigas clams. Perhaps because I was NOT running heavy carbon, as you have pointed out.

Now I do large water changes on that system, but not because I feel it needs it. ALL of my other marine tanks, except for the clam QT, get water changes from that main system. so I say ball park 100g/week. I never felt this system require that frequency of changes, but It works out best for all tanks in the long run. I never have to measure anyhing in any of my other systems because they will all basically carry the same chemistry as the mother reef. It was not until I stared adding new clams to that system that I realize that I STILL had Perkinsus in there, forcing me to bring out the weapons/reactors.

So as you have pointed out, This system has ALWAYS gotten lots of daily water changes, and what I am now saying is that is prisicely the problem!!! Yea, the Gigas looks good, but if you saw the losses you would know better.

 

"Your new routine doesn't account for the removal of iron that you've been such a believer in, what has changed there? "

 

Hers why. If you KNOW you have perkisus in your system you would be a fool to not use carbon and lots of it. This is my personal opinion based on my experience. Now for a dedicated clam qt tank, for new arrivals only, i want to treat it a little differently. To put it bluntly, If a clam has PM I want to know about it asap. The carbon use is actually not a big issue to me on this tank. I could take it or leave it and if I do use it it would be primarily for water clarity but at this time I don't plan on using it here. Of course I still run a large reactor on my main system where the Gigas lives only because of the obvious problem. My thoughts have not changed. I simply want to give new arrivals a higher nutrient level than I would maintain in a show system fillled with Acropora and more delicate species.

 

"Why not simply put the new clam in the sea horse tank which clearly has all the water nutrients that you want in a clam tank? It can be it's own QT."

Great minds think alike.

[/img]

Guess who's in there right now? The very first clam I purchased after we met - That Deresa. All other new clams died. It survived the whole ordeal. It was in the main system LONGER than any other new purchase, got all the dips, was in the hospital for 6 weeks, and now is looking good in the seahorse tank. Which, btw, now has 10 T5's on it ( which caused your caluerpa to go sexual.)

 

 

The scary thing is, as I said, this tank gets 30g/week from the big bad pm system, so lets see what happens to the Deresa knowing it is sharing the same tainted water, but subject to plenty or nitrogen and organics. I actually think it will be fine, and for the last three weeks it looks perfect. The organics in that tank are VERY high do to heavy seahorse feedings and nothing but a skimmer. Im waiting for a nitrate kit to arrive but my guess is they are far higher than 2 in there and maybe as high as 20.

That tank (125G) is just too big for a clam qt. The 30 is perfect. Easy to feed, and clean/bleach and start again if the need be. The old me would have never dreamed of keeping a clam in such dirty water as my seahorses produce. Lets see how she does.

 

"From what you are telling me and all that a noob like me knows, the clams died of freshly mixed saltwater. Plain and simple."

 

Thats my story and im stickin with it.

You just said it yourself how I always did massive water changes, and my clams have never done well. I did a massive water change on those 4 in qt and it killed them. The few successfull clam systems I know get less % water changed in a month than mine did in a week, and the very best clam keepers replaced with USED water. Lets do the math.

The way I see it, Ive got nothing to lose, except for more clams

-Z

 

Before putting in my 2 cents :-0 I think I am going to read both of the posts a couple of times so I understand what both Kat and you are saying ...

 

Albert

 

 

Albert,

I will soon be setting up the 125 dedicated clam system. I may even bring it up tonight and get started. I am happy to have the privilege of your advice an opinions as I build my "MASTERPIECE" from the ground up. This will be a very interesting system I promise you.

 

Also, I totally agree with your staements...live and learn.

 

Thanks Zeph ... I am sure that with the last experience that tank will be set up exactly how you want it and that you will take what you learned into consideration ...

 

BTW on my thread there is a question from an NR member who wants to know what are considered safe CUC's for Clam tanks ... not sure you have seen it but it may be a page or two back but your name is highlighted in Blue so you should not be able to miss it ... thanks for giving him your input

 

Albert

[ZephNYC]

[quote name='albertthiel' post='3944599' date='Jul 5 2012, 06:04 PM'

 

BTW on my thread there is a question from an NR member who wants to know what are considered safe CUC's for Clam tanks ... not sure you have seen it but it may be a page or two back but your name is highlighted in Blue so you should not be able to miss it ... thanks for giving him your input

 

Albert

 

Ok, I will check on that. Here is this for now:

Albert,

If you are not familiar with the famous clam keeper Wayne Shang, You may want to look him up or see about a copy of his book.

[albertthiel]

 

BTW on my thread there is a question from an NR member who wants to know what are considered safe CUC's for Clam tanks ... not sure you have seen it but it may be a page or two back but your name is highlighted in Blue so you should not be able to miss it ... thanks for giving him your input

 

Albert

 

Ok, I will check on that. Here is this for now:

Albert,

If you are not familiar with the famous clam keeper Wayne Shang, You may want to look him up or see about a copy of his book.

Thanks Zeph and I can't believe that with all the books I have that I do NOT have that one ... I'll check for it on Amazon or elsewhere for it as that is definitely one I want to add to my collection

 

I appreciate the info

 

Albert

[MNewman]

I have been research online about gigas and PM, then I came upon the forum and post. I have a 24"(shell) gigas thats showing the first signs of Pinched Mantle Disease. I just notice 2 days ago that the mantle was retracked back. Its been in my system for 6 years. Whats the best way to treat the clam? I also have a 8" Derasa in the same tank that doesnt show any signs of the disease. I fell I need to treat the clam ASAP because he's still strong.

[ZephNYC]

I have been research online about gigas and PM, then I came upon the forum and post. I have a 24"(shell) gigas thats showing the first signs of Pinched Mantle Disease. I just notice 2 days ago that the mantle was retracked back. Its been in my system for 6 years. Whats the best way to treat the clam? I also have a 8" Derasa in the same tank that doesnt show any signs of the disease. I fell I need to treat the clam ASAP because he's still strong.

 

YES!!!!! THANK YOU for posting. Do you know how do a propper fresh water dip?? If so, give her a 30 minute dip ASAP!!!. Gigas clams take dips very well. If you are not sure of the CORRECT way to dip , let me know. They key to success is dipping the correct way. Many people lose clams because they do not do it right and cut corners.

 

I have been research online about gigas and PM, then I came upon the forum and post. I have a 24"(shell) gigas thats showing the first signs of Pinched Mantle Disease. I just notice 2 days ago that the mantle was retracked back. Its been in my system for 6 years. Whats the best way to treat the clam? I also have a 8" Derasa in the same tank that doesnt show any signs of the disease. I fell I need to treat the clam ASAP because he's still strong.

 

a picture of the pinched clam would be nice.

[albertthiel]

I have been research online about gigas and PM, then I came upon the forum and post. I have a 24"(shell) gigas thats showing the first signs of Pinched Mantle Disease. I just notice 2 days ago that the mantle was retracked back. Its been in my system for 6 years. Whats the best way to treat the clam? I also have a 8" Derasa in the same tank that doesnt show any signs of the disease. I fell I need to treat the clam ASAP because he's still strong.

Yes indeed some pictures would help Zeph and others who read this I think

 

Albert

[MNewman]

YES!!!!! THANK YOU for posting. Do you know how do a propper fresh water dip?? If so, give her a 30 minute dip ASAP!!!. Gigas clams take dips very well. If you are not sure of the CORRECT way to dip , let me know. They key to success is dipping the correct way. Many people lose clams because they do not do it right and cut corners.

 

 

 

a picture of the pinched clam would be nice.

I will post pics later today when the clam opens up. I really dont know the correct way to FW dip. I will use a New 40 breeder with RO water with the same temp and PH of the main tank. I dont have any chemi pure or poly pads on hand so should I wait until I get some to FW dip, it will probably not be until this wed or thursday before I could get my hands on some? What should I do with the derasa? I also have small 1" clams growing on some liverock. A plan of action in the correct way to FW dip would be great in helpping me target this PM problem, Thanks

Pic is before I notice PM

 

Another before pic

[jedimasterben]

I will post pics later today when the clam opens up. I really dont know the correct way to FW dip. I will use a New 40 breeder with RO water with the same temp and PH of the main tank. I dont have any chemi pure or poly pads on hand so should I wait until I get some to FW dip, it will probably not be until this wed or thursday before I could get my hands on some? What should I do with the derasa? I also have small 1" clams growing on some liverock. A plan of action in the correct way to FW dip would be great in helpping me target this PM problem, Thanks

Pic is before I notice PM

 

Another before pic

Sweet baby jesus that thing is ginormously gorgeous.

[MNewman]

Not the best Pictures but you can see the start of PM. Its hard to get a good shot because the clam is sitting on a angle in the tank.

 

Not the best Pictures but you can see the start of PM. Its hard to get a good shot because the clam is sitting on a angle in the tank.

 

 

Before that mantle lobe was full and made a half circle. Now its retracked back to the clams shell in that one spot.

[ZephNYC]

Not the best Pictures but you can see the start of PM. Its hard to get a good shot because the clam is sitting on a angle in the tank.

 

 

 

 

Before that mantle lobe was full and made a half circle. Now its retracked back to the clams shell in that one spot.

 

Hello again,

I have a few questions for you.

1) how long have you had these clams ?

2) have you had any other clams die in the system?

3) how big is your tank and what is the fish load like ? And how often do you feed your fish?

4) What are your nitrates?

They both have PM and need to be dipped, but youre lucky, those species are the best at handling dips. I have a deresa that acts like she LIKES fresh water. I right now am treating a gigas EXACTLY like yours, so I can give you very good advice. First they take an insanely long amount of time to heal so I hope you are patient. Mine look only a little better after 2 months, where as other species should look better in weeks. However, mine was far sicker than yours as you can see by the early pictures I posted. This is a true disease man, and many people fail to understand that curing a diseased fish, or clam, is a long shot in any circumstance. BUt you are a good reefer and noticed the first symptom, which, as in humans, is often the difference between life and death. I thank you for that.

You probably know how to dip a clam already, but just for the record:

USe RO water and bring the temp and ph up to about the same as the display. Dip them for 20 minutes. They are going to need 30, but lets do 20 first as a warm up and see what they do.

It is very important that the ph be raised. Your clams are healthy, that is obvious...so lets keep them this way. Taking shortcuts will further harm their immune system, which is already being taxed by Perkinsus.

Also...and I have to put on my boxing gloves before I say this...run carbon. If your clams die and you did NOT run carbon, i will be forced to say that was the reason. So please run carbon so I can void that out as the culprit. Run a nice reactor if you can and already dont, and if you are running any iron based phosphate remover STOP.

I will get back to you after you answer the questions,

-Z

[ZephNYC]

I will post pics later today when the clam opens up. I really dont know the correct way to FW dip. I will use a New 40 breeder with RO water with the same temp and PH of the main tank. I dont have any chemi pure or poly pads on hand so should I wait until I get some to FW dip, it will probably not be until this wed or thursday before I could get my hands on some? What should I do with the derasa? I also have small 1" clams growing on some liverock. A plan of action in the correct way to FW dip would be great in helpping me target this PM problem, Thanks

Pic is before I notice PM

 

Another before pic

tell me about the 1 inch clam. Did you buy it or did it come with the rock? Im guessing your problems started 4 - 6 weeks after purchasing one of those little maximas.

[MNewman]

Hello again,

I have a few questions for you.

1) how long have you had these clams ?

2) have you had any other clams die in the system?

3) how big is your tank and what is the fish load like ? And how often do you feed your fish?

4) What are your nitrates?

They both have PM and need to be dipped, but youre lucky, those species are the best at handling dips. I have a deresa that acts like she LIKES fresh water. I right now am treating a gigas EXACTLY like yours, so I can give you very good advice. First they take an insanely long amount of time to heal so I hope you are patient. Mine look only a little better after 2 months, where as other species should look better in weeks. However, mine was far sicker than yours as you can see by the early pictures I posted. This is a true disease man, and many people fail to understand that curing a diseased fish, or clam, is a long shot in any circumstance. BUt you are a good reefer and noticed the first symptom, which, as in humans, is often the difference between life and death. I thank you for that.

You probably know how to dip a clam already, but just for the record:

USe RO water and bring the temp and ph up to about the same as the display. Dip them for 20 minutes. They are going to need 30, but lets do 20 first as a warm up and see what they do.

It is very important that the ph be raised. Your clams are healthy, that is obvious...so lets keep them this way. Taking shortcuts will further harm their immune system, which is already being taxed by Perkinsus.

Also...and I have to put on my boxing gloves before I say this...run carbon. If your clams die and you did NOT run carbon, i will be forced to say that was the reason. So please run carbon so I can void that out as the culprit. Run a nice reactor if you can and already dont, and if you are running any iron based phosphate remover STOP.

I will get back to you after you answer the questions,

-Z

 

1. I have had the gigas for 6 plus years now. The derasa I just got 3 months ago.

2. I have had both squamosa's and crocea's die in my tank in the past 2 years.

3. Aquarium is 250g with 75 sump. Around 12 fish in all with only one big tang. Bioload is average to under average. I dont feed my fish on a set schedule but might skip and day here and there as I'm pretty busy.

4. I havent test my nitrates in a long long time but will test and update this post.

I didnt think my derasa had PM as the mantle fully opens with no signs of being stressed. I called Tropicorium and spoke to them about my PM situation and doing FW dips. They there dip there PM diseased clams for 3 mins at a time. So its hard for me to dip my gigas for 20 mins long. I ordered 40oz of chemi pure today and 3 poly filter pads.With the small clams, there not tridacnids. Their all small around 1" and have no mantle tissue. All 3 are covered completly in zoanthids on a rock. Most people don't even know their there until you seen one close or open suddenly. I got this rock 6-8 months ago.

 

Questions:

1)Do I need to wait on the supplies to get here because I dont want to dip and then put the clams back in the main tank with iron if there would be some?

2)Can I FW dip both clams in the same tank?

3)You said in a post to raise the PH? You are taking about the RO water of the FW dip Correct?

4) Where do you see PM in my derasa clam?

5) Has your gigas fully recovered from PM and FW dipping?

Thanks

[ZephNYC]

1. I have had the gigas for 6 plus years now. The derasa I just got 3 months ago.

2. I have had both squamosa's and crocea's die in my tank in the past 2 years.

3. Aquarium is 250g with 75 sump. Around 12 fish in all with only one big tang. Bioload is average to under average. I dont feed my fish on a set schedule but might skip and day here and there as I'm pretty busy.

4. I havent test my nitrates in a long long time but will test and update this post.

I didnt think my derasa had PM as the mantle fully opens with no signs of being stressed. I called Tropicorium and spoke to them about my PM situation and doing FW dips. They there dip there PM diseased clams for 3 mins at a time. So its hard for me to dip my gigas for 20 mins long. I ordered 40oz of chemi pure today and 3 poly filter pads.With the small clams, there not tridacnids. Their all small around 1" and have no mantle tissue. All 3 are covered completly in zoanthids on a rock. Most people don't even know their there until you seen one close or open suddenly. I got this rock 6-8 months ago.

 

Questions:

1)Do I need to wait on the supplies to get here because I dont want to dip and then put the clams back in the main tank with iron if there would be some?

2)Can I FW dip both clams in the same tank?

3)You said in a post to raise the PH? You are taking about the RO water of the FW dip Correct?

4) Where do you see PM in my derasa clam?

5) Has your gigas fully recovered from PM and FW dipping?

Thanks

 

 

Ahhhh...tell Dick that Marc said Hi. Did he also tell you about the time he dipped a whole lot of croceas and forgot about them for like...2 hours?? and they all recovered!!

My gigas is very, VERY sick, because I was stupid. It showed small signs EXACTLY like yours did, and I ignored it - because it would get better all on its own. So periodically it pinched and got better and I just got used to it. Until it stopped getting better, which is probably too late. But even with that in mind it has improved a very noticeable amount , but still has alot to go. So no, its not 100% yet, and may never be, but yours sure can.

The reason why I reduced the time from my first suggestion of 30, to 20, was more for your benefit than the clam. I know how you feel, and when you drop her in the fresh water you will be thinking " this is crazy", but it becomes fun. And since you know Barry too, I am sure you will trust his advice. Here is one is papers and he says 30 minutes in it. Ive done 45 minutes on both gigas and deresa clams, deresa recovering pretty much the next day.

 

Barry and PM

 

1) You can dip the clams and get the carbon/ polyfilter set up in 2 - 3 days, sure, BUT if you have been dosing chealated iron, then NO, get the iron out first. Ultimately you should Set it up like this, and you will see how much better the poly is than carbon. RUn the affluent from a carbon reactor straight into a poly filter chamber. You will be amazed how much garbage the poly collects even after an entire carbon reactor.

 

2)Yes, you can/should fwd them together at the same time.

 

3) Yes, the Ph of RO water is around 6. So raise it to 8...8.2 and match the usual tank temp. A ph shock from 8 to 6 would probably kill most clams.

 

4) I dont, but for some reason I thought you said it had a pinch. I would dip them both. Also Deresas are superb at recovering from a FWD, usually within hours. And there is a very good chance it is carrying PM since the clam sitting next to it is infected. You will sleep better at night knowing you dipped them both.

 

5) Oh, I answered this in the first paragraph.

 

also, if I was you I would always run carbon in that tank.

Talk soon,

[albertthiel]

Hello again,

I have a few questions for you.

1) how long have you had these clams ?

2) have you had any other clams die in the system?

3) how big is your tank and what is the fish load like ? And how often do you feed your fish?

4) What are your nitrates?

They both have PM and need to be dipped, but youre lucky, those species are the best at handling dips. I have a deresa that acts like she LIKES fresh water. I right now am treating a gigas EXACTLY like yours, so I can give you very good advice. First they take an insanely long amount of time to heal so I hope you are patient. Mine look only a little better after 2 months, where as other species should look better in weeks. However, mine was far sicker than yours as you can see by the early pictures I posted. This is a true disease man, and many people fail to understand that curing a diseased fish, or clam, is a long shot in any circumstance. BUt you are a good reefer and noticed the first symptom, which, as in humans, is often the difference between life and death. I thank you for that.

You probably know how to dip a clam already, but just for the record:

USe RO water and bring the temp and ph up to about the same as the display. Dip them for 20 minutes. They are going to need 30, but lets do 20 first as a warm up and see what they do.

It is very important that the ph be raised. Your clams are healthy, that is obvious...so lets keep them this way. Taking shortcuts will further harm their immune system, which is already being taxed by Perkinsus.

Also...and I have to put on my boxing gloves before I say this...run carbon. If your clams die and you did NOT run carbon, i will be forced to say that was the reason. So please run carbon so I can void that out as the culprit. Run a nice reactor if you can and already dont, and if you are running any iron based phosphate remover STOP.

I will get back to you after you answer the questions,

-Z

Yes it looks indeed like they are going to need a lot of TLC to bring them back but IMO if you follow Zeph's suggestion you have a good chance of bringing them back

 

Have you had experience with keeping clams before is also one of my questions

 

Albert

[ZephNYC]

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