T. crocea in jbj 12dx, stock lights

[Fishfreak218]

Quote:

Caesar, please just ignore my posts and threads all together. I do not find your input helpful.

 

I wouldnt say that...i am fairly new here and she has been VERY helpful...

Ceaser is very helpful your just not liking her answers ....i think as a newb myself that we should listen to people who have experience rather than not listen to them because you dont want to believe them or you think you can get away with it...even if the clam does live we are all in best interest for the clam...we want it to live a good life under the right conditions...you should not take an animal and assume that just because it is living that it is happy or healthy...

[Caesar777]

Excellent post, Fishfreak.

[Fishfreak218]

if you truly love pets like your screename thingy says than get it under the right conditions...weather thats taking it to a friends or a LFS or taking off the stock hood and getting Metal Halides...besides if he does live for a while and dies its just going to cause stress for the other inhabitants or your tank COULD (not saying it will) crash...i say get it out of there for future problems and in its interest...why should you go through all that dosing of phytoplankton...it's just going to cause you alot more stress/work than it's worth (thats my opinion)

[reef n ale]

Originally posted by il0vepez

 please just ignore my posts and threads all together.    

 

Maybe this is good advice for all of us!

 

Rob

[Fishfreak218]

Quote:

Maybe this is good advice for all of us!

 

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

[il0vepez]

So, would anyone with a background, or working knowledge, in optics or photophysics care to explain to me why I should buy MH? Because when I research the topic, everything I find agrees with my hypothesis: at 2" from fluorescent (current state), the clam sees more light than at 10" from MH (minimum safe working distance). And please, I don't want links to sites where people sell MH. I've seen enough of these. I want peer reviewed journals. That's where I did my homework, that is where you are going to have to go to convince me I'm wrong. You may see this as stubborn, reckless, stupid, whatever. I don't care. Here say and poor logic don't convince me of anything other than my other hypothesis: you are unwilling to admit that MH is possibly not needed for crocea to thrive because you bought MH, and it is money well spent to you. Light is light my friends, and crocea doesn't know where they come from. If crocea eats 10% of 8000 lumen lamp or 1% of 80000 lumen lamp, it won't know the difference. So, show me why I'm wrong, don't tell me that I'm wrong. That means, I want a QED at the end of your explanation, because that's what's at the end of mine.

[Imaexpat2]

Sometimes its not the quanity of light but the quality of light. Just as its possible for something to survive but queit possibly not thrive so to speak. In theroy you are right about the lumens issue, and not to pound on you or flame you, what works on paper or the lab for that matter doesnt always work quiet so well in the "real world".

 

Dont get me wrong here. Im not going to be so narrow minded as to say it wont work cuase I have seen clams kept under VHO/PC/T-5's and do suprising well despite the status quo. There are a lot of ways to have a awesome tank and very few sure fire ways to have a bad one. The rest of the system is just as important as the individual componets such as lighting. Need a good example...go to www.garf.org and check out some of thier tanks with NO/VHO lights only and such lighting is near heresy in SPS circles!

 

But honestly I avoided halides for the longest time before breaking down and using them. Im mean with all of the horrors associated with expensive chillers, outragous power bills and expensive cost...the reasons for not using them had been many. While I dont use them on all of m tanks...many of the 23 or so tanks I have do use them, and in those that do the results are absolutely astounding!Im still wondering how I made it so long without them!

 

While you dont have to have them you might want to seriously reconsider. I have got no facts to back it up or links to hook you up too. But I will tell you this, even many of my soft corals that most would keep under moderate amounts of florecent lights have way more polyp extension, far more rapid growth, and in many cases better colors when under appropriate wattages of Halides after proper acclimataion.

 

Just some food for thought....

 

BTW...I forgot to mention just what a nice looking clam you had there!

[Prunfarm]

The only thing I found interesting about this thread is that Imaexpat2 has 23 tanks. Anyway ilovepez, do whatever you want. If the clam lives or dies, I'm not going to lose any sleep. I do wish you luck w/ the clam even though I would (and do) go w/ MH. It just astounds me how offended people get about this stuff. Face it folks, we destroy natural habitats to keep a miniature version in glass. If the concern was truly for the clams, then we people keeping them should set them free. Truth is, eventually something can go wrong w/ anyone's tank (power outtage, etc.) and the clams will die Squammy, Crocea, Max, H.H. NTM, if you set them free, you're just placing them into an ocean that we dump trash and chemicals in. I guess what I'm trying to say is that there is a lot of good info passed b/w these boards by very knowledgeable people, but sometimes you just have to let people do what they want to do and try things for themselves b/c we love the hobby and thats how we learn. I hope this all made some sort of sense; I've got terrible allergies today, and am a little grumpy.

[BKtomodachi]

I had copepods (still do) for 1 week before I bought a clam. I figured if they could handle the water, so could a clam.

 

[lgreen]

Originally posted by il0vepez

I had copepods (still do) for 1 week before I bought a clam.  I figured if they could handle the water, so could a clam.

 

 

:x

 

Yah...copepods are probably the worst choice for an "indicator". Copepods can live just about anywhere from the sh*t filled sewers to the cleanest saltwater tanks on earth.

[baris90]

>>> Light is light my friends, and crocea doesn't know where they come from.

 

well, that is wrong because light is a wave and it has wavelengths. Lumen measures how fast it hits a surface. So although two types of light hitting a surface has the same lumen, they may have different wavelengths and one wavelength may be useless for photosynthesis whereas the other one suits best. The reason for that is the pigments that "catch" the energy of the light in photosynthetic organisms are different. Remember the experiment where green plants dipped in water produce more bubbles when shined with red light and not with green light because they absorb red light and reflect green light (that is why they are green).

 

Disclaimer : I am not a physicists and I am not sure what the wavelength of a PC or a MH light is. I am a genetic engineer and "light is light" comment disturbed me and reminded me my college lectures so I wrote this. If PC and MH have the same wavelength, then nevermind what I said.

[phergus_25]

Iv read threads like this about 1000 times, and the o so intelegnet person taht starts it is not looking for info, they are jus trying to get someone to tell them that its alright, or just to #### people off. this guy dosent care if the clam dies, so I'm really not gonna worry about it. it might survive, but obvisly it will never thrive. And if you have ever seen Power Compact light as opposed to MH light then you would know you sound rediculous with your ideas on the matter.

-greg

[Caesar777]

Exactly. Oh well.

[il0vepez]

I've been avoiding MH because I am worried about temperature spikes. But, I woke up this morning and my tank was at about 86. So, I'll be really surprised if anything survives in my tank, no matter what my lighting. I guess I need a chiller anyways, so maybe I will buy MH afterall.

[Fishfreak218]

ya the nanocube run REALLY HOt..at least mine did...btw...metal halides make the apperance of your whole takn look 10x better IMHO

[coralcrazy]

Just give it to me... i have MH ligting...

[il0vepez]

So, my clam is recovering (maybe). It responds to shadows again.

 

I am planning an upgrade on my lighting, but not to MH.

 

I reference the following:

http://www.prozyme.com/technical/spectra/percp.html

 

I plan on adding 2 LEDS, 505nm with a spectral halfwidth of 30nm with 160 lumens via luxeon LED lighting.

 

A perfect 120deg reflector for a more traditional light source at a working distance of 10", an illumination area of 4in2, and 20,000 lumens gives me the equivalent of 177 lumens.

 

That means, that compared to a traditional source, I need to cover my clam with no less than 55% of my LED light source.

 

Does anyone have any reason as to why I should not go forward with my plans?

[Caesar777]

Because it's so little light that it's almost pointless to do?

 

Why not at least move up to a fatty set of T5's?

[Fishfreak218]

i think you should just go with Metal Halides..for a two reasons:

 

1.)it makes your tank look SO much better

2.)then the possibilities are endless for photosynthetic coral (as long as its not somthing that even experts have trouble keeping in aquaria)

what if you want SPS or more clams or anemone in the near future or maybe in a long time...you still have the option...my Metal Halides make my tank look 10x better than with Compact Flourecents

[il0vepez]

Originally posted by Caesar777

Because it's so little light that it's almost pointless to do?

 

Ok, please reread my posts. You are just being mean, not helpful. Please bust out the text books and run the numbers yourself, if you don't believe me. Tell me where I went wrong.

 

Normally, I place a black cloth over my tank after the light cycle but before I leave for work. On labor day, I slept in. The black cloth blocked the ventilation to cool the lights, and the light was on. This is my biggest mistake thus far. I do no claim to be perfect, intellegent, moral, etc. However, you must be more specific as to how I am wrong, acting pointlessly, etc.

 

If you wish to argue with me, then take my numbers and tell me how your results differ. I've told you everything I know, except for some drawings I don't know how to post.

 

So please, if you don't have anything constructive to say, then be quiet.

[il0vepez]

Fishfreak:

 

Certainly, MH is ideal. But so is a chiller, free power, etc.

 

MH just doesn't make sense for me, now.

 

I appreciate your input. I'm sure your tank looks awesome.

[il0vepez]

Sorry for this, but caesar has been hounding me like a ravenous fox.

 

Example posts for caesar:

 

Pez, I disagree with you on principle, but best of luck to you.

 

Or:

 

You have neglected one obvious thing, [insert thing I haven't thought of]

 

Thanks

Scott

[BigBlue]

Pez, you've got to do more research and once you read up on clams you'll see why everyone is pushing for MH lighting.

 

IME and from my reading - Tridacna clams derive their color based on their depth in the reef. The blue specimens develop that color as a filter to protect it's flesh from the high lighting it receives at the top of the reef. The more brown the deeper the water it's suited to. Therefore the more intense the clam the more light it expects. There are other differences based on species (derasa's are more hardy, etc.) but as light is concerned that's driving factor.

 

You need to be concerned with the PAR and intensity of the lighting, not so much the spectrum. MH lighting will give you the highest PAR of any type lighting (some will argue T5 is better but it'll be hard to stick a T5 in a nanocube AFAIK). PAR (Photosynthetically Available Radiation) is a direct measure of the light available at a certain depth.

 

For asthetics MH is a "cleaner" light and the closest artificial method we have sunlight.

 

Once you have the facts you'll see that MH or a fat T5 are you best options in aquarum lighting. While LEDs are sexy they just won't cut it and IMO you're throwing money away if you want to make that nanocube work in the long run.

[lgreen]

a fat t5? ha ha. dont they call those a t12 ?

 

j/k i know what you mean.

[BigBlue]

T8s are fat, T12s obese