Seadragon's Simple & Easy 10g Reef ​💦​

[Tired]

I would keep a close eye on it. If it's still moving, it has a chance. If it stops moving, take it out, quick. Especially since you wouldn't be doing a big water change if it dies. Though I would REALLY not want to have an urchin die in a tank and then not do a water change. Do you have a different tank that does get water changes, that you can put this in until you figure out if it's dying? 

[Seadragon]

7 minutes ago, Tired said:

I would keep a close eye on it. If it's still moving, it has a chance. If it stops moving, take it out, quick. Especially since you wouldn't be doing a big water change if it dies. Though I would REALLY not want to have an urchin die in a tank and then not do a water change. Do you have a different tank that does get water changes, that you can put this in until you figure out if it's dying? 

 

I will keep a close eye on it.  I got faith! 🙂  The only other tank is the School Nano Reef and that is being guarded at all times by the school's security team so we'll do Plan A. 😉

[billygoat]

3 hours ago, Tired said:

Oh, that urchin doesn't look good. An urchin losing its spines is a dying urchin. You shouldn't be able to see its shell so clearly. They're supposed to look like this random pic I found online, and be carrying things around on top of them for disguise and sun protection.

Sadly this is correct: your urchin is almost certainly going to die very soon. From CORAL, Vo. 17, No. 2 (pp. 49-50):

 

"...loss of several spines is often a sign the animal is in deep trouble, and is likely dying. Each spine that is lost leaves an uncovered hole in the epidermis through which internal fluids may exit and pathogens may enter. If only a few spines fall off from an injury, and the urchin seems otherwise in good shape, the animal will probably survive, and if so, it may regenerate the lost epidermis and spines over a period of several weeks to months. However, a loss of many more spines is typically evidence of a serious problem that will often be lethal."

 

The author recommends immediately transferring a spine-dropping urchin into "a hospital tank with clean seawater of full oceanic salinity," but even if you did so it is unfortunately highly unlikely that it would survive. 😥

 

[Seadragon]

Thanks for the advice @Tired and @billygoat. After careful consideration, I decided that it's best for the tank to let go of the dying urchin.

 

For now, we have a lively Damselfish (that is currently showing no aggression to the clownfish) and a curious green Emerald crab that is circling the large rock surveying the new lands.  Unfortunately, the small conch didn't make it.  I didn't watch what the LFS put in the bag at the time, and they gave me a much smaller one than I've gotten before.  Either way, I'm not going to pursue getting another and I will just leave the lights off to get rid of the cyanobacteria.

 

@Tamberav, I'll add the prefilter in the next cleaning.

 

At this time, this will just be a pest tank.  I'm happy that the cyanobacteria has lessened and we have at least 2 lively characters to stare at.  Crabby is just a "where's waldo" type of figure, and Shrimpy is like one of the three stooges, always nosey and poking at things.

[Tired]

I don't know that blacking out the cyano is the best approach. If you kill off all the photosynthetic organisms on your rockwork, as soon as any are introduced or any spores turn out to still exist, they're going to run wild again. A few days' blackout to help get rid of it might be good, but manual removal during water changes and waiting for the tank to work itself out would be less likely to potentially cause problems from something else. Especially since you aren't trying to keep it off any corals or anything. 

 

Too bad about the urchin. One might be worth a try in the future, though I'm sure you'd have to supplement its food once it ate a lot of the algae, and it might look a little silly at full size. 

[Seadragon]

14 minutes ago, Tired said:

I don't know that blacking out the cyano is the best approach. If you kill off all the photosynthetic organisms on your rockwork, as soon as any are introduced or any spores turn out to still exist, they're going to run wild again. A few days' blackout to help get rid of it might be good, but manual removal during water changes and waiting for the tank to work itself out would be less likely to potentially cause problems from something else. Especially since you aren't trying to keep it off any corals or anything. 

 

Too bad about the urchin. One might be worth a try in the future, though I'm sure you'd have to supplement its food once it ate a lot of the algae, and it might look a little silly at full size. 

 

I can leave the lights on for a shorter period of time than what I used to.  That way maybe there's the double benefit of a shorter photoperiod to keep the coralline algae alive, but lessening the cyanobacteria.

[Seadragon]

What are the hardiest animals that anyone reading this can think of that you can put in a FOWLR?  As a baseline, let's say you have a clownfish, damselfish, yellow watchman goby, green emerald crab, and a cleaner shrimp that are alive and well.

 

If I was to add anything in the future, it would only be something known to be hardy based on our experiences.  Thanks!

[Tired]

I would not have put three fish that size into a 10gal. But that aside, hermit crabs are fun. Scarlet reef hermits don't tend to cause too much trouble. A limpet would be neat, if you like limpets. They aren't animals, but there's always easy macroalgaes like halimeda. 

[Tamberav]

Do you use carbon? Cyano actually produces toxins. Water changes remove buildup of such things so probably another thing to find alternative ways to deal with. 

[Seadragon]

1 hour ago, Tired said:

But that aside, hermit crabs are fun. Scarlet reef hermits don't tend to cause too much trouble. A limpet would be neat, if you like limpets. They aren't animals, but there's always easy macroalgaes like halimeda. 

 

I was really tempted to get some hermit crabs again, but I hate the notion of having to add a bunch of empty snail shells to the tank.

 

If a limpet falls upside-down onto the sand and you don't help it turn itself over, will it die?

 

I have a feeling some halimeda might cost me a pretty penny to ship it from an online store.  I'll keep it in mind though, thanks! 🙂

 

1 minute ago, Tamberav said:

Do you use carbon? Cyano actually produces toxins. Water changes remove buildup of such things so probably another thing to find alternative ways to deal with. 

 

I was using carbon, but then I recently threw away the custom internal filtration unit I had.  I hear the cyanobacteria toxins are less of a problem in the tank than they are in the wild, but nevertheless, something for me to ponder.  Thanks, I think I might just clean out my UV Sterilizer and replace the filter floss or whatever it had with some activated carbon media pads cut to size.

[Tired]

I can't picture a limpet falling on its back unless it was very sick, or starving. They cling incredibly tightly to rocks. 

 

Unfortunately a lot of online places are only doing fast shipping options now, not USPS priority (which is like $10), but that may change eventually. 

[Seadragon]

Another update! 🙂

 

On 9/28/2020 at 7:25 PM, Tamberav said:

Do you use carbon?

 

I am now!  I just created a 5-inch thick triangle out of activated carbon media pads.  I cleaned out the filtration section of my UV Sterilizer since it was all clogged up, and now it's doing it's job properly with the Power of Carbon. 🙂

 

I'll make sure to do this again before it gets too clogged up in the future.

 

 

On 9/28/2020 at 6:15 PM, Tired said:

hermit crabs are fun

 

I noticed on a couple websites it listed that Blue Leg Hermit Crabs may eat some types of cyanobacteria.  I tend to like Blue Leg Hermit Crabs for a variety of reasons... they're usually cheap... relatively small compared to other hermit crabs... and I guess they may eat cyanobacteria too? 😉

 

Well, I went to my overpriced LFS since the "good one" is about an hour away and I don't feel like making a huge trip for this, and all they had left was 5 tiny Hermit Crabs which they told me "includes blue leg, white, red ...", so I just took them because I wanted some Hermit crabs.

 

And I noticed they had some Turbo snails and they told me they may be of the "Mexican" variety, but I know they were wrong before; I got 2 anyways.

 

 

 

And for a couple bucks, they threw in like 20 empty snail shells of different sizes that they washed in vinegar.  So I'm currently rinsing those out.

 

 

 

I'm hoping that between the newly installed carbon filtration, the blue leg hermit crabs that may eat some types of cyanobacteria, the new turbo snails, the reduced photoperiod, and the replacement of a few cups of salt water due to the rinsing and acclimation, that the tank will come back to life to the way I want it.

 

 

Let me know if you have any comments or suggestions.

Thanks!

[Tired]

Aw, look at those lil guys. Make sure you get some tiny shells for them. They won't do too much to the cyano at that size, but they sure won't hurt. 

[Seadragon]

I found out there's a shortage of Tail spot blennies and Blue Leg Hermit crabs in my area.  I wanted to pick up a few more things for my tank and found a couple things I was interested in at my LFS.  I got 4 more small hermit crabs (species unknown at this time, call it out if you know what they are 🙂  ), a Tiger Sand Conch,  and 3 Nassarius snails (1st time I've ever had these).  The tank is looking much better than before.  Let's take a look...

 

The green Emerald Crab is a hard worker.  I either see him cleaning off the rock or hiding below the arch -- sometimes he sticks his claw out at me when I get too close to the glass.

 

I got 3 of these type of hermit crabs.  What are they and how do they compare to the Blue Leg Hermit crab?  Their legs remind me of a candy cane with stripes of black and white.

 

Hiding underneith the cyanobacteria was plenty of Bubble Algae, Hair Algae, and Chaeto macroalgae.  I don't really care for the cyanobacteria, but I do like the different types of algae as free food for the tank inhabitants.

 

This is Round 2 for a larger Tiger Sand Conch this time.  Hoping he'll take care of the remaining cyanobacteria.

 

Another new hermit crab.  Is this the infamous Scarlet Hermit Crab?

 

A closer look at the Tiger Sand Conch.  He's watching us.

 

Part of me wants to trade in the Yellow Watchman Goby and get a Tail Spot Blenny again.  But, can't find stock for the TSB online or at the LFS.  Oh well.

[Tired]

Those are zebra hermits. Pretty similar to blue legs, except they grow a tiny bit larger. 

[EthanPhillyCheesesteak]

2 hours ago, Tired said:

Those are zebra hermits. Pretty similar to blue legs, except they grow a tiny bit larger. 

They grow a lot bigger than blue legs. I have one thats the size of a golfball

[Tamberav]

I saw tailspots on a list at the suppliers, at least some. First time I have seen them available in a long time. Perhaps some will show up sporadically at the LFS.

[Seadragon]

Update after 1 Year, 7 Months, and 3 Weeks later...

 

Up until a week or so ago, I've done practically no water changes.  Here are the results:

• The cyanobacteria has disappeared from the tank.
• The original ocellaris clownfish (Nemo) has survived.
• The original YWG (Goby) has survived.
• The original Mexican Turbo snail has survived.
• The original banded trochus snail has survived.
• A Cerith snail has survived.
• ~3 Nassarius snails have survived.
• 2 Tiger Sand Conchs have survived.
• 7+ hermit crabs have survived.

 

And now that the pandemic is less of an issue for some of us, I've decided to make some big changes to the tank.

• I removed the very large rock (on the right in the pictures) and kept the smaller rocks to create a small arch -- this added much needed space and more saltwater to the aquarium.
• I siphoned off the inorganic dust (which appears to be what is left over after the detritus is consumed by bacteria and detritivores) from the sand, rocks, and surrounding areas.
• I added a HOB filter to the tank.
• I added a small yellowtail damselfish (Dory).
• I added a bicolor blenny (Blenny).
• I added a small frag of GSP to the top of the arch -- I'm so happy it appears to be flourishing for the past couple days and I have high hopes that it will cover the entire rock formation over time.
• I added a small Scarlet Skunk Cleaner Shrimp (Shrimpy).
• Every quarter, I will siphon off the inorganic dust and detritus from the sand & rocks and clean out the HOB filter & UV Sterilizer.  This will make the tank more pleasing to the eye, keep the sand more white, and improve the overall water quality.

 

I was thinking about adding GSP to the back wall, but I'm afraid that over the long run, it's going to create a maintenance burden when the GSP encrusts over the heater and onto the sides of the tank.

 

I also ordered some barnacles off of eBay and I'm planning on placing them on the right side where the giant rock was removed to make the tank look more interesting and to add more caves for goby.

[LazyFish]

That sand tiger conch eyeball looking is a great shot. Conch eyes are so weird they look way more like an actual eyeball than what most snails have.

[Rabb.D]

I'm curious do you focus on removal(CUC) or balancing water parameters? having clean up crews is one things balancing parameters is another, which one do you focus on mostly?

 

yours, Rab

[Seadragon]

On 5/20/2021 at 2:23 AM, Rabb.D said:

I'm curious do you focus on removal(CUC) or balancing water parameters? having clean up crews is one things balancing parameters is another, which one do you focus on mostly?

 

yours, Rab

 

My main focus is to do as little work as possible while keeping everything alive, prevent any major cyanobacteria outbreaks going forward, and to have the GSP (and eventually Xenia which I might pick some up today) grow to cover the rocks (and some of the barnacles that will be arriving on Monday).  Probably either Monday night or Tuesday, I'll post some updated pictures on how the tank looks now compared to months ago.

 

I've personally found that the tiger sand conchs (I have 2 that survived) do a great job in keeping the sand and lower parts of the rocks clean.  They did help sometimes for removing cyanobacteria, but siphoning the sand is much better.  The CUC in general just helps me delay my cleanings longer than if I didn't have any CUC.  I still need to scrape off the front and side glass because I value having a nice view of the tank.

 

As far as water parameters, the only thing I do now is when I notice the sand or rocks or anything not looking pleasant, I'll start siphoning and add new saltwater back in.  And maybe once a week if I remember, I'll dose Reef Fusion 1 and Reef Fusion 2.  I'll also try cleaning out the HOB filter and UV Sterilizer at least once a quarter.

[Seadragon]

Last week I added a tiny piece of GSP to my tank.  I don't have many options of close-by and affordable LFS in my area, so I made a "deal" with them and bought a tiny GSP piece that was growing in the substrate in their frag tank for $10.  They wanted $15, but I also bought their cleaner shrimp for $35 so I wanted a "break".  Yeah, crazy prices, but I really wanted them.

 

Two days ago, I went back and wanted to get a Xenia.  They wanted $30, but somehow I was able to get them to give it to me for $25 and was told "only this time".  Lol.  It's tiny as hell, but I really wanted something at the time.

 

Then today, I was checking the local online ads for Xenia and came across a hobbyist less than an hour drive from where I live.  He wanted $10 per Pulsing Xenia frag and they were pretty large compared to what I'm used to.  I ended up buying 4 of his 6.  And the Xenia tank was born on May 27, 2021.

 

 

 

Due to my excitement of having a flourishing Xenia tank (with a little GSP), I'll probably try to stick to a monthly water change and cleaning schedule.  Let's see how this goes!

 

[debbeach13]

7 hours ago, Seadragon said:

Then today, I was checking the local online ads for Xenia and came across a hobbyist less than an hour drive from where I live.  He wanted $10 per Pulsing Xenia frag and they were pretty large compared to what I'm used to.  I ended up buying 4 of his 6.  And the Xenia tank was born on May 27, 2021.

Great find. I love dealing with other reefers. Usually better looking corals for less money. Plus you get to learn about their reefing experience. 

[Seadragon]

3 hours ago, banasophia said:

I think GSP looks awesome on the back wall... makes a beautiful backdrop to other corals in the foreground like Xenia and Kenya tree. If you put it there, be sure to glue it down low on the back wall because it grows upward and outward, not downward. 

 

I like your vision!  Over the long haul, if I can get a nice purple mat with green polyps on the back wall, it would definitely make things look even more interesting and appealing.  So, I took the little rock that I glued the GSP to and placed it adjacent to the back wall.  I'm hoping that it will spread over the rock and onto the back wall automatically over the course of the next few months or so.  Let's revisit this in a year and see how things turn out. Thanks for the suggestion! 🙂

 

I moved the Xenia around the tank to add balance visually.  Hopefully they will grow and spread to fill things out even more so.

 

The left side seems to have a little bit less current so the pulsing xenia really gets to show off their movement and open up a bit more.

 

I took the picture right after I moved the larger pulsing xenia in place so maybe that's why it's not fully spread out.  Although, the current on the right side of the tank is a bit stronger, hopefully these xenia won't mind much and can adjust.

 

I'm leaving the frag plugs in the tank for now.  I might remove some if the xenia decide to venture off them at some point.

[Seadragon]

We went to a large fish store for fun yesterday and I ended up buying another GSP frag.  What I like about this new one compared to the other one is that it has a longer "neck" so if both GSP types ends up attaching and growing onto the back wall, they should give 2 different looks.  Here's some pictures of the GSP taken this morning.

 

 

 

Now, here's a problem I noticed just now.  This picture was taken this morning also of the old GSP:

 

And this picture was taken this afternoon not too long ago:

 

It appears something in the tank may have moved the GSP on the piece of rock.  Not sure if I should just leave it alone or see if I can glue it back onto the rock or remove it altogether and try to glue it onto the back glass itself?