CNCreef Asis Pro 824 LED/T5HO Evil Cluster Hybrid

[jedimasterben]

The best combo I like is 50/50 according to output.

[Archaic37]

Yeah if basically 1:1 ratio of NW:L looks good and the whites Ben used were 324lm@ 1000 and 484lm @1000 for limes to keep the same ratio of lumens and ran your vero 10 at 350-500 you would need 2 limes per 1 vero 10.

 

Hope I did that right lol

[jedimasterben]

The 4K Rebels that Steve's sells are flux bin R which is ~250 lumens at 1A.

 

But yeah, roughly 1:2 Vero to lime at 350mA. Just remember that you will still need more royal blue with adding more lime (as it does affect overall CCT to a degree, just not nearly as dramatically as adding white LEDs), or keep the NW dimmed down.

[jedimasterben]

What I hope to be the absolute last pieces of the build should arrive in the next couple of days. I still can't believe how efficient Steve's is with custom mounting lol.

[bdevillier19]

The 4K Rebels that Steve's sells are flux bin R which is ~250 lumens at 1A.

 

But yeah, roughly 1:2 Vero to lime at 350mA. Just remember that you will still need more royal blue with adding more lime (as it does affect overall CCT to a degree, just not nearly as dramatically as adding white LEDs), or keep the NW dimmed down.

So that's a 1:2 at 350ma for both the vero 10 and the lime? I plan on running 2 RB rebel k 8up per vero as well, unless you think that won't be enough.

[jedimasterben]

Run them lime at 700-1A.

 

Two of the K per vero is more than enough lol

[bdevillier19]

That's kind if what I figured. I'd rather have too much blue and dim it down than not have enough.

[jedimasterben]

At 350mA, the 4000K 90 CRI Vero 10 puts out around 910 hot lumens, so at 100%, you'd need to have only one Luxeon K running at 1A, or two running at 500mA.

 

 

So I lied, I have more stuff coming, but it's just 24-pin IC terminal blocks to put on my LDD boards. Right now I just have pin headers - and I've destroyed two LDD from bending them trying to pull them out from the pin headers not being PERFECT on the board. IC sockets I never had that issue with, so I figure I might as well go ahead and get some and put them on my four boards just to be sure.

[bdevillier19]

Well if that's the case I'll just run 1 8up rebel k per vero and save the cash on extra rebel ks and ldds for something else. I should be able to run 2 8ups per LDD if I up the voltage of the power supply correct?

[jedimasterben]

Correct.

[bdevillier19]

sweet, thanks as usual.

[NirvanaandTool]

I'm thinking 4 lime (either at 700 or 1000mA) per 950 @ 1000mA. I initially was thinking 2 per 950 but probably safer with 4.

 

Ben is it worth to add PC amber? Wondering while I'm ordering the limes if its worth tossing in a few amber. Looking at the spectrum graph for the 950, I'm guessing no as the 950 seems like its peaking around 600nm so a 587nm amber wouldn't be filling in a low spot. Is my line of thinking right? (Not sure how this would play out for Vero, didn't look into their output spectrum).

[jedimasterben]

Will probably be a bit much. Unless your tank is very, very deep, you won't be running the BXRA nearly at full power. Definitely play around with what you like, but more than likely that will be too much.

 

With the BXRA, PC amber probably won't be useful (same with just about any 80CRI or higher chips, especially 90CRI). PC amber isn't a normal LED, it is like lime in that it is a very, very broad spectrum. It is most useful for adjusting color when using low CRI chips.

 

 

 

The Vero series have the same spectral outputs as their BXRA counterparts, as they use the same phosphors.

[NirvanaandTool]

24" deep 90g. But you are right, I probably won't run them all out as I have no idea what I'm going to do for coral. I get what you are saying. Saw Evil saying less is more with these too. Maybe I'll get 6 and play around with 4 first to see how it looks.

 

Figured that about the amber but wanted to make sure. Thanks, just wanted to make sure it wasn't something I'd add later to save on shipping. Feel like I order and then forget stuff and order again and forget stuff. Always paying more shipping lol

[jedimasterben]

Even if you're going full SPS, remember that photosaturation is still a thing lol.

 

And you don't even know how many times I've ordered from various places time after time after time, I think for this build I've spent a LOT of money on shipping alone.

[NirvanaandTool]

Hahah what? no way lol. I have no idea what I'm going to do. I was thinking softies and LPS but let's face it, I can't hold out from SPS for long.

 

So have I so I can only imagine what you've spent. I decided to tally up what I spent for my LED build (everything + controller) the other day and it was around the cost of 1 radion so I guess I'm still ahead by the cost of a Radion lol

[jedimasterben]

The price of one Radion, that's cute.

 

When I was chillin with Dave at Reefapalooza he asked me what types of corals were my favorite, and when I mentioned that my favorite was probably sanctithomae mushrooms, he was like well wtf, what the hell are you building a miniature sun for softies? LOL

 

But I do think that I like stylophora better, though - it makes me sad that they are uncommon now, I haven't seen a single stylo for sale in person in the past year or so, if it's not an acro, people just don't care about it right now.

[CrazyEyes]

I tell you what, those Luxeon K's are starting to look even better

 

Just wish they had wider optics, like 60-70 degrees.

[jedimasterben]

The lighting industry has almost no need for such wide optics, which is why they are not common.

[CrazyEyes]

How many of Luxeon K RB's(8 ups) would you recommend for my 48x18x21(SPS tank) this will be alongside the 4 Vero10's and 28 hyper violets. I'm gonna give them a shot.

[jedimasterben]

Depends on the current you want to run them at and run the Veros at for your final color temperature. You want around a 1:14 ratio of lumens to mW to keep the color temperature up. Maybe a little higher ratio since you're not also using blue in the mix.

[CrazyEyes]

Oh right, the Veros will be running at 350mA. So with 4 Luxeon k 8ups at 1A it should give me a 14k look. I think I figured that out right.

[jedimasterben]

Yep, pretty much

 

If you don't want to push them that hard, you can double it (which is still the same price as the M, but double the output due to using eight of the Luxeon T diodes versus four in the M) and run them lower. I would use lower LDD, though, as you'll have no reason to run them near 1A with only a 21" tall tank

[CrazyEyes]

So instead of running 4 Luxeon k's @ 1A maybe I should run 8 @500mA?

[jedimasterben]

From my lime thread:

I have not seen any posts on this. Care to share? Some posts on another forum by Pacific Sun got me thinking about this, but I'm not sure I want to get pulled down that rabbit hole.

An interesting project indeed. You might find significant interest in this. I originally wanted to go with a combination of 3 ups and singles to get to small clusters, but I'm concerned about disco unless the individual chips are closer together like a custom luxion Z pcb. The cost of the Luxeon T 8 up and the Vero have me looking at the evil cluster route.

Ideally, I'd like to use clusters of 7 to 10 LEDs at similar spacing (7" centers). The Z package would be perfect. Unfortunately, I have no pcb design skilz. I had a 6 unit cluster laid out using 2 RB, 1 B, 1 CY, 1WW, 1/2 Violet. Using a T 8up a Vero and some Blue, cyan and Violets in larger clusters is much more cost effective.

I'd be really interested if you went ahead with a minicluster custom PCB.

That post was the first public post about it. I've hinted it in a few places here and there, but was trying to figure out the logistics of it, and talking things like design with Dave Fason, running it past Clive (evilc) to get his thoughts on the LED combos, and after running cost numbers I wasn't sure if it was feasible. Just the PCB prototyping is expensive, especially if I didn't get it right the first time lol, though I realistically would have had someone else design it for me that actually knows what they were doing. Then mounting of the Z is very difficult and would need to be professionally done, not to mention actually buying the proper bins of the LEDs would require large minimum orders (or significant buying power) and large cost. The other issue is final product cost - each board would probably end up costing anywhere from $30-50, and since you'd need one per 4-6" of tank... yeah, it gets expensive very quickly.

 

The Luxeon Z are efficient for their size, but I don't think that I would use them for primary lighting at this point, as their efficiency is less than the Luxeon T (which is in the M and K multichips) and the Vero, so you need more diodes to perform the same, especially for deep tanks.

 

However, that being said, if used in the same way that T5 are used (so run the LEDs at low current, keeping the wattage for the entire strip around 1/2 to 2/3 that of the equivalent length T5 tube) then it would probably work with multiple strips.

 

 

Because of the significant cost I've decided that I probably won't go forward with it. If there is more interest, I can see what I can do, but for now it's been shelved.