murphs_reef 92G - retired, thanks guys

[mcarroll]

1 hour ago, Lebowski_ said:

This is the most coral safe approach.

True.  I just wish they were more ideal in practice since they are ecologically almost perfect.  

 

(For anyone just curious, most of the pro's and con's are mentioned here.....pretty balanced article for someone trying to sell Berghia....kudos to them for that.)

 

But at least IME Nudibrachs are among the least certain to actually work (everything in the tank must like to eat them) AND they are the most expensive solution by far....especially considering the low predicted success rate.  For perspective, one prominent vendor found via google sells them at almost $500 per 50.  No quantity less than that.  If you can find them locally, then it could be a different story, maybe worth it....but still expensive compared to other solutions.

 

But even if Berghia successfully "take root" in the tank, it will be WEEKS before you notice a difference.....MONTHS before they are eradicated.  And that's optimistic – from the folks selling the Berghia – and only IF they don't all get eaten by the fish, crabs, et al. in the mean time.

 

Personally, I still prefer Aptasia X vs other types of solutions since I have the most control over how – and whether – it works.  But it's definitely not perfect either.

 

Aiptasia are definitely a hassle...

 

 

[mcarroll]

1 hour ago, Murphs_Reef said:

I will never manage to trap the shrimp.

Well, maybe the upside is that if they aren't patrolling the tank for aiptasia, then they aren't patrolling for other things (much) either?  They must be getting enough food where they are hiding out.

[Lebowski_]

Best of luck in that case, aiptasia is such a B. I attack it weekly in my little nano and even in a small tank it can see like a job in itself.

[Lebowski_]

14 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

True.  I just wish they were more ideal in practice since they are ecologically almost perfect.  

 

(For anyone just curious, most of the pro's and con's are mentioned here.....pretty balanced article for someone trying to sell Berghia....kudos to them for that.)

 

But at least IME Nudibrachs are among the least certain to actually work (everything in the tank must like to eat them) AND they are the most expensive solution by far....especially considering the low predicted success rate.  For perspective, one prominent vendor found via google sells them at almost $500 per 50.  No quantity less than that.  If you can find them locally, then it could be a different story, maybe worth it....but still expensive compared to other solutions.

 

But even if Berghia successfully "take root" in the tank, it will be WEEKS before you notice a difference.....MONTHS before they are eradicated.  And that's optimistic – from the folks selling the Berghia – and only IF they don't all get eaten by the fish, crabs, et al. in the mean time.

 

Personally, I still prefer Aptasia X vs other types of solutions since I have the most control over how – and whether – it works.  But it's definitely not perfect either.

 

Aiptasia are definitely a hassle...

 

 

 

Yes and in my experience, the other tough aspect of Berghia are they basically starve once the job is done, so you have to really watch for signs that they have eaten all of the aptasia.

 

I use Aptasia X as well and it works beautifully. On a tank this size, though...I'd be putting aside a full day and going over each rock 1 by 1....sounds terrible!

[Murphs_Reef]

18 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

Well, maybe the upside is that if they aren't patrolling the tank for aiptasia, then they aren't patrolling for other things (much) either?  They must be getting enough food where they are hiding out.

 Yeah I think they must do. I broadcast feed coral and fish.... And Aiptasia I guess. So they are likely not interested in eating anything else... 

8 minutes ago, Lebowski_ said:

Best of luck in that case, aiptasia is such a B. I attack it weekly in my little nano and even in a small tank it can see like a job in itself.

Yep what ever way you skin it... Aiptasia is a complete pain in the ass. I have kinda managed them with F Aiptasia, filefish (work great but would need more at £30 each, slow, eat every type of coral regardless and not great in high flow), for so long I can't remember when I first seen them... Now the population just can't be ignored.. 

 

Berghia I can get in small numbers but at £15 each.. it would cost £100 to £150 for the number that would make an impact and they would likely live less than a couple days between fish, crabs and shrimp picking at them....

 

Some great suggestions by everyone.. I'll try out the final fish solution to see what happens.. but it might just be less annoyance in the end to just take the rock out.. separate the coral and clean the system down... 

 

Cheers all 

[Lebowski_]

That sounds like a lot of work, but also an opportunity to deep clean the whole system, rescape, rethink coral and fish/invert choices, etc. In a way, it might be a fun weekend project, even if it feels overwhelming to imagine.

[seabass]

You've gotten some excellent suggestions.

 

1 hour ago, Murphs_Reef said:

I broadcast feed coral and fish

While the corals will appreciate this, so do the aiptasia.  And the peppermint shrimp will likely prefer this food over the aiptasia, making them less likely to eat the anemones.

 

IDK, breaking down the tank is an option; but you don't want to use new dry rock, which could invite additional problems (like algae, dinos, etc).  If you decide to go down that path, make sure you are using mature live rock.

[Murphs_Reef]

2 hours ago, seabass said:

You've gotten some excellent suggestions.

 

While the corals will appreciate this, so do the aiptasia.  And the peppermint shrimp will likely prefer this food over the aiptasia, making them less likely to eat the anemones.

 

IDK, breaking down the tank is an option; but you don't want to use new dry rock, which could invite additional problems (like algae, dinos, etc).  If you decide to go down that path, make sure you are using mature live rock.

Yeah great feedback as always.. just when I was about to shut up my nanoreef shop as well... Love this community even though it's some what shrunken.. 

 

It would be brand new dead rock yeah. But I do have an adequate system to store all of my coral.fish.inverts in for a few months in the shed. 

 

As it turns out the shop don't have the Kleins 

That was listed. I missed out...  maybe a good thing....not sure. 

 

I'm starting to go around in circles here so if I can't source a copperband in the next few weeks, I'll be getting my gloves on 

 

 

[mcarroll]

On 8/16/2023 at 10:18 AM, Lebowski_ said:

On a tank this size, though...I

Indeed.   The only upside in this case is that his infestation is "low"....maybe a hundred or so.  Hypothetically still within range of human intervention. 😉 (It can be way worse. 😬)

 

On 8/16/2023 at 10:33 AM, Murphs_Reef said:

I broadcast feed coral and fish.... And Aiptasia I guess.

If you stop broadcast feeding it's almost certain your Aiptasia will at least stop spreading, and possibly even succumb to the Pepperminty Shimp after a time.

 

Personally, I'd give this some serious thought if you haven't already tried taking a hiatus.  

 

Not trying to beat a dead horse, but.. 😉  Broadcast feeding definitely has upsides, but IMO the downsides rule it out for use in most display tanks.

 

The fact that some common pests (aiptasia, vermitids, etc) are encouraged by it is one reason.  In a frag tank or grow-out system those downside factors can be dealt with more or less easily. Not really in a display tho.

 

On 8/16/2023 at 10:33 AM, Murphs_Reef said:

it might just be less annoyance in the end to just take the rock out.. separate the coral and clean the system down... 

Didn't you mention they are in your drain system as well...that's where they seemed to spread from initially?  Thoughts on clearing that out?   Seems like that is a main priority since even Berghia aren't likely to work in there....certainly a fish won't. 😉 

 

Even draining the tank wouldn't do it since they could probably remain wet for days...unless that's not an issue.  (I haven't thought about this much though...)

 

But if you get the drains cleared, then clearing the display and other parts would be an even bigger win for whatever solution you go with.

[Lebowski_]

I was just reading about how you want to specifically target blue head Kleins butterflies for aptasia in a reef tank. Just thought I'd pass that on, as apparently they do a much better job and are less likely to pick at anything other than a zoa, compared to a normal Kleins.

 

 

I wasn't even actually looking for this info, I just happened to come across it and it reminded me of this thread. Apparently they have the hardiness of a normal Kleins but an aptasia appetite of a copperband - and once they have cleaned things up, they are much more likely than a copperband to et prepared foods...even pellets!

[mcarroll]

2 hours ago, Lebowski_ said:

I was just reading about how you want to specifically target blue head Kleins butterflies for aptasia in a reef tank.

I noticed that "trend" within the talk on Kleins as well, but I feel fairly confident calling BS on the concept.   Here are my main thoughts "why"....

 

For one....  Someone later in one of the threads I saw on the topic noted how widespread Kleins are in general and how there are so-called blue headed individuals in all of the regions around the world.  It's not likely an indicator of anything IMO....just a natural gradient in coloration, maybe even a seasonal one.  They hybridize with other Butterflies, after all.  Also, a quick survey of Kleins pictures online via Google Images shows that almost all have some blue.  Same with pictures of them in books I have.

 

For two...  After I saw posts on the topic, I could only think about how in my own experience I've never paid any attention to "how blue" their heads are, and they've all done a perfect job eliminating aiptasia.  No exceptions on this front.  (Also, unlike a copper band, those Kleins' all survive too....even if they end up getting removed to a FOWLR tank later.  Henioches butterfly is another aiptasia eater that I'd put in a category with the Copperband....I'm sure they work, but they don't seem nearly as hardy in aquaria as the Kleins.)

 

With only a very small percentage of Kleins going "off the ranch" and eating coral after they ran out of aiptassia, most I have encountered have even been good reef citizens, leaving corals alone (or making no observable impact).  To me, this affirms they a good bet, but not zero-risk.  IMO good for a low-risk tank like this.  Feeding frequently, if you can, is a good way to moderate their post-aiptasia appetites.  I suspect not everyone tends adequately to their appetites and that plain old hunger explains most of the coral eating they reputedly do.)

[Murphs_Reef]

Thanks gents. 

 

@mcarroll I have actually spoken about this to one of the guys I chat to at the weekend. I have white vinegar and a spray bottle. Tomorrow I have a job to empty the Weir out and vinegar spray it.  I'll leave it 4 or 5 hours to dry up a bit and let the various coraline, algae and Aiptasia absorb it.. then rinse the weir out in tap water a few times before filling and turning the return back on with a fresh sock to catch anything I didn't get out.. 

 

There are no  Kleins or copperbands around at the moment locally so they are off the menu for now.. 

 

Assuming the weir cleaning works out and the filefish continues.to keep the sump clean. We are down to the display. 

The vast majority of Aiptasia are on 2 rocks which after a little fiddling I can remove and replace with stuff I have cooking in the shed without taking the reef apart. This would leave me with maybe 20 or 30 Aiptasia stragglers, which I would hit with AIPTASIA-X. 

 

Will come back Sunday with an update on the Weir work ...

[Lebowski_]

Alright well I will zip it in that case lol but good luck Murph! 🍻

[debbeach13]

Sounds like you will be doing the best plan possible using what you have available to work with. Two thumbs up.

[Murphs_Reef]

On 8/18/2023 at 6:08 PM, Lebowski_ said:

Alright well I will zip it in that case lol but good luck Murph! 🍻

Got my big boy pants on.... GULP!!!! 

 

[Murphs_Reef]

Some shots of the nice bits 

 

 

 

 

[mcarroll]

6 hours ago, Lebowski_ said:

Alright well I will zip it in that case lol but good luck Murph! 🍻

No offense intended – was just observing my thoughts after we apparently read similar threads!  😬 (Sorry!) 

[Pjanssen]

good luck murph

[Murphs_Reef]

49 minutes ago, Pjanssen said:

good luck murph

Thanks penny 😀

[Murphs_Reef]

So!.. a jobs been done

I syphoned out the Weir and sprayed it down with vinegar. After that I left it all for around an hour and a half in the end, before washing it out.. 

The systems back (18hrs ago) up and running and nothing in the display seems to have been bothered. 

Can't see anything left in the Weir but I will shut down the return this afternoon so I can have a good look. 

 

Assuming that's ticked off, the Weir and sump are good... Just the display (the hard bit) 

 

 

[Murphs_Reef]

On 7/24/2023 at 12:45 PM, Murphs_Reef said:

People eaters with all zooxanthellae expelled... Still pushing new polyps.... 

Looks good though... 

 

Update on the above zoas...a month in and... Little more coral to them eh?

 

[Murphs_Reef]

Not going stop coming over to nanoreef but have picked up on my R2R build thread and updated it a little bit. 

I have been mainly using Instagram to record progress visually but document thoughts over at R2R more I think.. 

 

For anyone that's got an account over there I'm still murphs_reef and my build thread will carry on at 

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/murphs-mixed-reef-now-with-minor-sps.860822/

[Lebowski_]

I stopped using R2R as much lately after learning a bit about how the site is run. I guess they sensor a lot of negativity if it affects sponsors. There's also a whole story about a conflict re: LGBT, some say because rev (the owner, a Reverend) is against LGBT. I have never seen that personally, but can't speak for others. The general feeling from a lot of longer time members seems to be that it's essentially business that puts vendors over members. I don't have any personal issues with rev and have talked with him a couple times, so it's hard to judge what's true and what's just a spurned previous member who is angry and is cooking up a conflict.

 

Not sure how much of that is true, but I do feel there is a very commercial/corporate vibe, so I stick to Nano-Reef, Humble Fish and my local group's chat.

 

However, enough with the negativity - the tank looks great 🙂 Those zoas really bounced back nicely.

[Murphs_Reef]

Don't really disagree with any of that @Lebowski_ my main concern really isnt lack of engagement here.. there may not be a great deal of users but there is plenty of engagement. I worry that the service will cease as the user base shrinks. It costs time and money to keep the site up. As long as the site is here I will update my build thread but I don't want to loose the logs I have either so will maintain on the other platform as well.  

 

I do miss the stuff like the TOTM and the competitions we used to run or rather @seabass used to run.  I used to be a paying member... But for some reason it's just not the same anymore with less to read and help out with (if I can anyway lol). 

 

I even have one of the old tank stickers 😁

[seabass]

I share your concerns about a shrinking user base.  There does seem to be less traffic these days.  Instagram and R2R currently seem to be getting more attention; however, I still like Nano-Reef the best.

 

55 minutes ago, Murphs_Reef said:

I do miss the stuff like the TOTM and the competitions we used to run or rather @seabass used to run.

I'm actually currently working on the possibility of bringing back some form of the TOTM.  I have an idea which I will share with @Christopher Marks very soon.  I hope that it works out.  I feel that the TOTM helps draw new people to this site, and might keep current members more active.

 

As for the contests, the last one ended this January.  That's really not that long ago.  However, there wasn't that much participation (only 8 members completed the 90 day contest, even though it didn't require people to purchase anything).