Polarcollision's Nuvo 24: March FTS

[Polarcollision]

Tank looks lovely. I've never been drawn to chalices until seeing the beauties in your tank. What sort of light/flow do you have yours in?

 

Thanks! Oh, you'll love chalices. They're super easy to keep -- easier than zoas since they've never batted an eye at all the swings th tank has gone through. Memory is fading a bit on the exact numbers, but estimate is around 250+ PAR from LED. They can get away with much less light. Flow is lower where they're at. I guess medium flow? Enough to whip their feeder tentacles around but not enough to shimmy their flesh. When they were still just a couple eyes, I would feed them mysis 1-2x/wk.

 

A little tip for shaping them: Alwasy seemed strange to see a clearly defined frag plug under these guys. Pry the frag off the plug and attach it to a glob of suprglue. Each time it grows to the edge of the glue glob, pry it off the rockwork and add more glue globs. Did that for about a year until they had the lumpy cone shape and then let them run free. The two large ones are about 18 months or so old to give you an idea of growth speed.

[owenj]

Thanks! Oh, you'll love chalices. They're super easy to keep -- easier than zoas since they've never batted an eye at all the swings th tank has gone through. Memory is fading a bit on the exact numbers, but estimate is around 250+ PAR from LED. They can get away with much less light. Flow is lower where they're at. I guess medium flow? Enough to whip their feeder tentacles around but not enough to shimmy their flesh. When they were still just a couple eyes, I would feed them mysis 1-2x/wk.

 

A little tip for shaping them: Alwasy seemed strange to see a clearly defined frag plug under these guys. Pry the frag off the plug and attach it to a glob of suprglue. Each time it grows to the edge of the glue glob, pry it off the rockwork and add more glue globs. Did that for about a year until they had the lumpy cone shape and then let them run free. The two large ones are about 18 months or so old to give you an idea of growth speed.

Interesting, so their mouths are big enough to take mysis? I've never seen one with feeder tentacles out.

 

Thanks for the tips about shaping them. Do they grow out flat if you don't keep adding to its base?

[Polarcollision]

Interesting, so their mouths are big enough to take mysis? I've never seen one with feeder tentacles out.

 

Thanks for the tips about shaping them. Do they grow out flat if you don't keep adding to its base?

 

Totally. Normally they're closed, but if food is captured in their mucus membrane (gross!) they open and pull it in. At night, the feeder tentacles come out that latch on to anything. I think the largest mouth on the bubblegum monster chalice is about the size of a dime or nickel when fully open. Here's a cool video of one feeding complete with intense music to set the mood. ;-)

 

All three of mine grow smooth, but some make really cool bumps and boobies. Check out the chalice at 2:00 in the second video.

 

 

[Polarcollision]

PSAMMOCORA

 

Crossing fingers it is the branching variety.

 

12.10.14

 

 

This one is probably ORA green branching psammocora. Lots of great morphs of these

[Sk8n Reefer]

They are both nice but that (psammo? ) is really nice- great color

[Polarcollision]

They are both nice but that (psammo? ) is really nice- great color

 

The guy who sold me the frag confirmed that the green one is a psammocora too. It's so bright and vivid! LOL The orange one is super bright too, but the camera doesn't pick up the colors very well for some reason. Anyway, I really like the fuzzies.

[markalot]

I want some puh sammocora but any piece around here, no matter how small, starts at $50. This is when I hope my nearby LFS gets a frag in without knowing what it is and I can snag it. Yours look fantastic.

[Polarcollision]

I want some puh sammocora but any piece around here, no matter how small, starts at $50. This is when I hope my nearby LFS gets a frag in without knowing what it is and I can snag it. Yours look fantastic.

 

Sheesh - someone's trying to artificially inflate prices around you. May be time to negotiate or search craigslist - that's more than I paid for both.

[Polarcollision]

Boring color, but the growth pattern on this one makes up for it.

 

 

 

This one is a pavona, not psammocora. The patterns... gorgeous!

[kimberbee]

Crazy patterns!

[Polarcollision]

Hope everyone is having a wonderful holiday season so far!

 

The long view from the right 12.10.14

 

 

 

 

[Newtybar]

Polar - I'm sad to say my tank bit the dust today. I'd like to caution you and say that I think the failure rate is probably greater than the 1% we discussed prior.

[Polarcollision]

Polar - I'm sad to say my tank bit the dust today. I'd like to caution you and say that I think the failure rate is probably greater than the 1% we discussed prior.

 

Noooooooo! I'm so sorry to hear that. :-( How many Nuvo 24 tanks are left on NR now?

 

Edit: Got nervous again and looked up every nuvo 24 tank thread--found 21 threads. Seven of them ended with cracked tanks. Some of the remaining 14 threads were abandoned and I'm going to assume these tanks are OK or sold. 2/3 survival rate... yikes. Most of the failures were either the thin glass version or the tank cracked within a couple months of being set up.

[owenj]

Beautiful tank pics as always. But eep, hearing about all these Nuvo tanks breaking freaks me out

 

I've got my first chalice frag coming tomorrow--it's all your fault! I'm agonizing over where to put it in my tank.

[Newtybar]

Noooooooo! I'm so sorry to hear that. :-( How many Nuvo 24 tanks are left on NR now?

 

Edit: Got nervous again and looked up every nuvo 24 tank thread--found 21 threads. Seven of them ended with cracked tanks. Some of the remaining 14 threads were abandoned and I'm going to assume these tanks are OK or sold. 2/3 survival rate... yikes. Most of the failures were either the thin glass version or the tank cracked within a couple months of being set up.

 

Crossing my fingers for you. Hopefully, since yours is a bit more established and has survived this long, you are in the clear!

[Polarcollision]

Beautiful tank pics as always. But eep, hearing about all these Nuvo tanks breaking freaks me out

 

I've got my first chalice frag coming tomorrow--it's all your fault! I'm agonizing over where to put it in my tank.

 

Oooooh!! What did you get??! I have just learned that there are several genus--or was it species--I think it was genus--of chalice. Some take high light and some take lower light. Best to start with it about an inch or so above the sand and then move it up little by little

 

Crossing my fingers for you. Hopefully, since yours is a bit more established and has survived this long, you are in the clear!

 

Are you thinking of getting out? Say it isn't so.

 

It is set up for 14 months now, so hopefully that is a good sign.

[Newtybar]

Oooooh!! What did you get??! I have just learned that there are several genus--or was it species--I think it was genus--of chalice. Some take high light and some take lower light. Best to start with it about an inch or so above the sand and then move it up little by little

 

 

Are you thinking of getting out? Say it isn't so.

 

It is set up for 14 months now, so hopefully that is a good sign.

 

You can rest easy! Mine is an older model according to the serial number.

[owenj]

Oooooh!! What did you get??! I have just learned that there are several genus--or was it species--I think it was genus--of chalice. Some take high light and some take lower light. Best to start with it about an inch or so above the sand and then move it up little by little

A "Pink Edge" Echinophyllia sp. it's mostly blue-green with a lighter edge that apparently is pinkish. Description said low-moderate light, and I think I've got a decent spot for it.

[Polarcollision]

You can rest easy! Mine is an older model according to the serial number.

Oh no! I'm so sorry those were even out on the market to purchase. I'm sure IM will replace it with an equivalent fusion line so you can get back to enjoying the hobby.

 

A "Pink Edge" Echinophyllia sp. it's mostly blue-green with a lighter edge that apparently is pinkish. Description said low-moderate light, and I think I've got a decent spot for it.

Saw one named similarly over at unique corals. Very pretty choice!

[owenj]

Saw one named similarly over at unique corals. Very pretty choice!

That's the one

[metrokat]

This is an ORA psammacora. It will be one of the most vivid colors in corals you have ever seen. You can spot this guy from across the room. It grows slower than chalices IMO. And ORA does not sell psammacoras anymore because they are such slow growers.

 

 

This looks like a pavona to me, a psammacora does not have tentacles. Could even be a lepto.

 

 

[Polarcollision]

You've had me on an ID treasure hunt this morning and I'm still not certain what the orange frag is. The LFS sold it as a psammocora, but... LFS. The frag is so small it's hard to tell if it is an encruster or if it will plate out. Lithophyllon undulatum is a close match for polyp patterns:

 

It has a fantastic growth pattern if this is what it is:

 

 

On the other hand, I can find frags that look almost identical to mine that are all being sold as orange psammocora. Maybe the difference is encrusting vs branching variety. Here are 3 frags from Reef Gen, Jason Fox and AquaSD:

 

The coral ID site has a couple fluffier varieties os psammocora. This is a possibility as the mouths are clearly visible, surrounded by a ring of polyp tentacles. It also has a similar thickness and growth pattern in the parent portion of the frag:

http://coral.aims.gov.au/factsheet.jsp?speciesCode=0443

 

PAVONA

Here's a possibility for pavona (explanulata) though the mouth/polyp pattern is too regular and defined in comparison and it grows much flatter/smoother than the frag.

 

Pavona bipartita. Growth edges may be similar, but this one is not as fuzzy nor does it have a divoted skeletal pattern.

 

It's not this, but now I want it: Leptoseris tubulifera

 

The green ORA pasmmocora must be very happy where it is - it's growing just a little slower than the ponape bird and faster than my acros. :-) Yay! The bubblegum chalice on the other side of the tank steals the show from across the room right now, so I'm hoping the orange and green of the psammocora and setosa bounce the eye back and forth.

This is an ORA psammacora. It will be one of the most vivid colors in corals you have ever seen. You can spot this guy from across the room. It grows slower than chalices IMO. And ORA does not sell psammacoras anymore because they are such slow growers.

 

 

This looks like a pavona to me, a psammacora does not have tentacles. Could even be a lepto.

 

 

[tibbsy07]

My ReefDVM friends tested MB7... (I used to be Babyreef back then)

 

How had I not seen this?! Shows how busy I've been, lol. I was actually thinking recently that there is no real point in trying to do anything with the cultures. I'll only be able to visualize them under a scope and that means literally nothing. Either they are there or no. Age of bottle, shipping conditions, etc. can all affect that, so I wouldn't be able to do anything real.

 

This video is pretty cool, and is the best I've seen so far. The only problem is that they have the same problem I have - 99% of environmental microbes cannot be cultured in a lab, meaning that BA, Dr Tims, etc can't get the full range of microbes that we want because we simply can't grow them. It also means that try as they might, the ReefDVMs folks can only culture what they can. I believe their data (though seeing actual results would be nice), but the only REAL way to know would be to 16S Sequence the bottles when they are made and then over time. That's expensive and time consuming and there is no real way for me to do that.

 

My take home message on these is that MicrobeLift seems to have the most actual science behind it, and seems to have the most qualified people doing the work. That being said, anyone can claim anything and we are all subject to corruption and trying to make money. Most of these products are probably all the same and will have similar effects on tanks in the long run. Ultimately there is not enough data to rule them out, and not enough to rule them in. Use them with caution, like any product. If they produce a good effect for you, keep using them. If they don't, stop. The only thing you can do is experiment with them in your own tank.

 

 

Polar - I responded to your PM. I've been thinking about it a bit more and I DO think it's a cool idea, just semi difficult to set up and would likely not save any money. Oh, and your tank is gorgeous. Sheesh!!

[Polarcollision]

How had I not seen this?! Shows how busy I've been, lol. I was actually thinking recently that there is no real point in trying to do anything with the cultures. I'll only be able to visualize them under a scope and that means literally nothing. Either they are there or no. Age of bottle, shipping conditions, etc. can all affect that, so I wouldn't be able to do anything real.

 

This video is pretty cool, and is the best I've seen so far. The only problem is that they have the same problem I have - 99% of environmental microbes cannot be cultured in a lab, meaning that BA, Dr Tims, etc can't get the full range of microbes that we want because we simply can't grow them. It also means that try as they might, the ReefDVMs folks can only culture what they can. I believe their data (though seeing actual results would be nice), but the only REAL way to know would be to 16S Sequence the bottles when they are made and then over time. That's expensive and time consuming and there is no real way for me to do that.

 

My take home message on these is that MicrobeLift seems to have the most actual science behind it, and seems to have the most qualified people doing the work. That being said, anyone can claim anything and we are all subject to corruption and trying to make money. Most of these products are probably all the same and will have similar effects on tanks in the long run. Ultimately there is not enough data to rule them out, and not enough to rule them in. Use them with caution, like any product. If they produce a good effect for you, keep using them. If they don't, stop. The only thing you can do is experiment with them in your own tank.

 

 

Polar - I responded to your PM. I've been thinking about it a bit more and I DO think it's a cool idea, just semi difficult to set up and would likely not save any money. Oh, and your tank is gorgeous. Sheesh!!

 

All very good points. Thanks so much for your input. I've been dosing the remains of expired microbacter7 bottle here and there on the off chance it's contents provide nutrition for already present bacteria to flourish. It doesn't seem to be making anything worse.

 

Maybe the least complicated approach to get goodies that can't be cultured is to drive the 2 miles to Puget Sound and grab a cup of sand to hang in the media basket for the Nuvo 8 gallon mandarin-training tank. Huge temp difference though... Worst case I end up with a super awful pest. Best case, a more diverse system.

 

Anyways, I'm less concerned about the cost, and currently more interested in creating hands-off filtration for the little Nuvo 8 quarantine tank. Not a huge fan of water changes (the 24 gallon is closing up 4 weeks now without one).

[NanoTopia]

Yes, I still believe quality (fresh) live rock is the best, unfortunately, almost impossible to come by these days, except... for those large plugs that come with Indo mini colonies, they are the most diverse and easy to come by transports for a host of microbes. Not sure if you have seen my post in my 7 gallon thread but I recently acquired a baby plate coral off one of those man made Indo plugs, and a host of other interesting corals in the past. Simply amazing! However, I have also acquired AEFW eggs off the same plugs in the past.