Official Mandarin and Dragonet Show off thread

[kimberbee]

Was that live bloodworms or dried or what? Did you isolate them to feed? I haven't had a repeat performance of the jar unfortunately...

 

Frozen. I've been mixing them with the spirulina brine hoping for a bit better nutrition. I plan to add cyclops when I can find it.

[lkoechle]

Update on training:

 

I fed some SELCON Boost soaked mysis to the tank today (I rotate frozen foods on a daily basis. variety is the spice of life!) and the male was striking and exhibiting hunting behaviors. I'm not sure if actually ate, but I'm considering a step in the right direction. The female is still fat and no spawning behavior witnessed yet. I'm still sick so I went to bed early again, so who knows. She didn't seem as interested in hunting as the male did, but she also seems more shy (yet outgoing at the same time). She will hang out more in the open but runs when she sees you. The male usually hides, but he stands his ground if he's out in the open and sees you. Funny fish they are. lol

 

My kitty goes in for his wellness check up at PetSmart today, so I'll see if they have some frozen or live blackworms.

May I add a beautiful photo of kitty since he is currently link to my attempts at dragonet training?

 

Frozen. I've been mixing them with the spirulina brine hoping for a bit better nutrition. I plan to add cyclops when I can find it.

Have you thought about soaking them in a food additive? My fish seem to be a huge fan of SELCO Boost. It has HUFAs and Omega 3s and other vitamins as well as garlic. http://reefbuilders.com/2013/04/09/selco-boost-food-soak-supplement-garlic-extract/

[Snow_Phoenix]

Very nice Mandy/Dragonet photos on here! I'll post more pics of my boy tomorrow if I can get him to behave and stay still in front of the camera.

[kimberbee]

 

Have you thought about soaking them in a food additive? My fish seem to be a huge fan of SELCO Boost. It has HUFAs and Omega 3s and other vitamins as well as garlic. http://reefbuilders.com/2013/04/09/selco-boost-food-soak-supplement-garlic-extract/

 

I probably should. Sounds... tasty... I guess...

[D Z]

 

I probably should. Sounds... tasty... I guess...

I use that same stuff as well. My clowns love it. My mandarin shows similar signs of interest in frozen food as what Ikoechle mentioned regarding her male, so maybe my target likes the selco boost as well. It is hard to tell whether he is actually eating small bits of the frozen food out of the water column or just small pods that I cannot see.

[lkoechle]

I use that same stuff as well. My clowns love it. My mandarin shows similar signs of interest in frozen food as what Ikoechle mentioned regarding her male, so maybe my target likes the selco boost as well. It is hard to tell whether he is actually eating small bits of the frozen food out of the water column or just small pods that I cannot see.

Yeah, I get real confused when he spits out sand. I don't know if he's actually picked anything up or not. It doesn't help that the mysis looks just like the sand. My water gets cloudy after I feed anything that's been soaked. Do you strain or rinse yours to prevent cloudiness? I always wonder if rinsing would undo what the soaking added.

[D Z]

Yeah, I get real confused when he spits out sand. I don't know if he's actually picked anything up or not. It doesn't help that the mysis looks just like the sand. My water gets cloudy after I feed anything that's been soaked. Do you strain or rinse yours to prevent cloudiness? I always wonder if rinsing would undo what the soaking added.

I used to rinse my frozen food after soaking it, but was also wondering the same thing. I would think that some of the nutrients get soaked up into the food deep enough that some of it remains, but I still feel that just straining is a better alternative. I usually put a chunk of LRS into a container(I personally use an little espresso mug), then a squirt of selco boost. After it sits for about 10 minutes of so, I use a straw to kinda squeeze out any excess selco from the chunk, then rinse the selco out of the cup. If I am feeding mysis, then I use a 5ml measuring cup with holes drilled it the bottom as a strainer since the mysis seperate when defrosting. With this method, I don't notice any cloudiness in the tank.

[jedimasterben]

Straining/rinsing food is throwing out coral/invert food. It should never make your tank cloudy, especially as large of a tank as you have. When I feed frozen, it's either a 1.5"x1" sheet of LRS Reef Frenzy or one 'cube' each PE mysis and cyclop-eeze, and neither has made my water cloudy.

[D Z]

Straining/rinsing food is throwing out coral/invert food. It should never make your tank cloudy, especially as large of a tank as you have. When I feed frozen, it's either a 1.5"x1" sheet of LRS Reef Frenzy or one 'cube' each PE mysis and cyclop-eeze, and neither has made my water cloudy.

She is specifically talking about after soaking food in SELCO Boost. The bottle of selco boost specifically says not to directly add it to the aquarium as it will make your water cloudy.

 

Also, from everything I have read, you should always rinse your frozen food after defrosting it to remove unwanted phosphates, nitrates, and other toxins. This is straight out of an article that was in Jan/Feb 2015 Coral Mag regarding feeding techniques.

[lkoechle]

Straining/rinsing food is throwing out coral/invert food. It should never make your tank cloudy, especially as large of a tank as you have. When I feed frozen, it's either a 1.5"x1" sheet of LRS Reef Frenzy or one 'cube' each PE mysis and cyclop-eeze, and neither has made my water cloudy.

Selco boost makes the water cloudy, not the food itself. If I don't soak, no cloudiness. I don't know how to get around the cloudiness. I guess I will just have to live with it. Its just a pita when i feed a lot (like trying to entice mandarins to eat while pacifying the swarm of beasts at the other end)

[Nstocks]

If I'm able to find a Mandarin that will eat frozen food (not quite sure how hard they are to find), is it still necessary to have an established tank (around 1 year) before adding it? Could there be a good chance that given some time, the Mandarin no longer wants to eat the frozen food and ends up starving unless copepods are provided.

[Neebles]

Not sure if anyone has seen this or tried it, but it looks like a good idea.... http://www.saltwatersmarts.com/diy-target-feeder-mandarinfish-pipefish-2804/

[metrokat]

Not sure if anyone has seen this or tried it, but it looks like a good idea.... http://www.saltwatersmarts.com/diy-target-feeder-mandarinfish-pipefish-2804/

Yeah Paul B posts on this forum also, that feeder is neat. I've made something smaller before.

[lkoechle]

Yeah Paul B posts on this forum also, that feeder is neat. I've made something smaller before.

 

That's cool. I wonder if something similar can be made for dead food? My wrasse looks like he's going to explode. I can't keep going like this and its only been a weekend. lol And I don't think they acknowledge the jar very well. Alternate ideas?

[Neebles]

Yeah Paul B posts on this forum also, that feeder is neat. I've made something smaller before.

 

Oh cool, I didn't know he was on here too. He's a funny dude. I don't have a mandarin yet, but I will probably build something like this for when I do

[metrokat]

I had used one of these

 

where the white screw is, I inserted a feeding tube, and removed all the spings etc that are inside so it was just a cave and I could put food in there.

 

I had also made an open diner, basically cut open a food jar or bottom of a plastic bottle. Weighed it down with a frag disk. Glued a series of connected straws and fed live BBS from the top via a syringe. Here's Draco.

 

Does anybody know if Nutramar Ova is back in stock worldwide?

[lkoechle]

I had used one of these

 

where the white screw is, I inserted a feeding tube, and removed all the spings etc that are inside so it was just a cave and I could put food in there.

 

I had also made an open diner, basically cut open a food jar or bottom of a plastic bottle. Weighed it down with a frag disk. Glued a series of connected straws and fed live BBS from the top via a syringe. Here's Draco.

 

Does anybody know if Nutramar Ova is back in stock worldwide?

I haven't seen any around here yet. For posterity of people wanting to look at cute mandarin photos, JUST LOOK AT THESE LOVE BUGS! i JUST WANT TO CUDDLE THEM!

 

 

PS Did you like using that box thing? I just don't know if they'd prefer a box or a shallow open dish...

[metrokat]

cuddle bugs. Kim, see that noticeable size difference? That's what you want.

[lkoechle]

I built this for the mandys this morning:

 

 

 

The main issue I've had with the jar, is everything gets eaten by snails or moved out via current by the time the mandys' are confident enough to check it out (like 6 hours later) after I've moved it. Hopefully now I can surprise them with food while they're sitting in the jar... The airline tubing is held in the jar with super glue and coral putty (glue doesn't cure on the glass) and the airline tubing is suction cupped to the wall.

 

In other news, Kai (my cat taken to the vet yesterday) is in kidney failure so that was a poopy check-up

 

Edit: AND IT WORKED! Qinglong was sitting inside the jar and I squirted food (enriched brine soaked in SELCO boost) in and he started eating. Kind of ironic the fresh from the wild mandy is adjusting faster then the female "eats prepared" (I'm not convinced that was true). Either way, at least she's lived in a tank for awhile and she did calm the male when he was spastic. I just think its funny that it might be wild mandy teachng captive mandy how to eat frozen instead of the other way around.

[Snow_Phoenix]

Finally managed to get a few snapshots of my Mandy, Hercules. I got a free scoopful of live BBS from my LFS yesterday, and he finished them off in less than 2 hours.

 

 

 

 

 

He's still a bit on the skinny side, even though he's eating live and both frozen four times a day. Any recommendation on how to fatten him up further so that his lateral line is less visible?

 

 

[lkoechle]

So, made the mandy's a new box. Its just an acrylic box with a hole cut and a hole drilled for airline. This one will fit both mandarins. Hopefully the female comes in soon. The male is pigging out on brine, live black worms, mysis and roe.

 

DSC_0069 by lkoechle, on Flickr

 

qinglong_box by lkoechle, on Flickr

 

My concern is with the female. How do I know if she's losing weight? (I'm not very good on IDing fish weight) I've caught her hunting a couple times (striking at something), but we're approaching a week and she's still very skittish and shy. Today she did seem curious about the box when Qinglong was sitting inside (he practically lives in it...) but when should I be concerned? How does she look?

 

DSC_0086 by lkoechle, on Flickr

[kimberbee]

I cant tell you how she looks, but I can say I love that box!! What a great idea to give the mandys a safe place to eat!!

[jedimasterben]

Also, from everything I have read, you should always rinse your frozen food after defrosting it to remove unwanted phosphates, nitrates, and other toxins. This is straight out of an article that was in Jan/Feb 2015 Coral Mag regarding feeding techniques.

The math confirms the opposite. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/3/chemistry

 

 

 

Rinsing Foods and the Effect on Phosphate

 

Now that we have some information on the phosphate in foods, we can critically examine the concern that many aquarists have about foods, and specifically their rinsing of frozen foods before use. A typical test you see is someone taking a cube of fish food, thawing it, and putting it into a half cup of water. They then test that water for phosphate and find it "off the charts". Let's assume that means 1 ppm phosphate, which would give a very dark blue color in many phosphate tests. Bear in mind this is a thought problem, not an actual measured value, but it is typical of what people think the answer is.

 

Is that a lot of phosphate? Well, there are two ways to think of the answer.

 

The first way is as a portion of the total phosphate in that food. A half cup of water at 1 ppm (1 mg/L) phosphate contains a total of 0.12 mg of phosphate. A cube of Formula 2 contains about 11.2 mg of phosphate. So the hypothetical rinsing step has removed about 1 percent of the phosphate in that food. Not really worthwhile, in my opinion, but that decision is one every aquarist can make for themselves.

 

The second way to look at this rinsing is with respect to how much it reduces the boost to the aquarium phosphate concentration. Using the same calculation as above of 0.12 mg of phosphate, and adding that to 100 gallons total water volume, we find that phosphate that was rinsed away would have boosted the "in tank" phosphate concentration by 0.12 mg/379 L = 0.0003 ppm. That amount washed away does not seem significant with respect to the "in tank" target level of about 50-100 times that level (say, 0.015 to 0.03 ppm), nor does it seem significant relative to the total amount of phosphate actually added each day in foods (which is perhaps 50-1000 times as much, based on input rates from Table 4. Again, the conclusion I make is that rinsing is not really worthwhile, in my opinion.

 

Selco boost makes the water cloudy, not the food itself. If I don't soak, no cloudiness. I don't know how to get around the cloudiness. I guess I will just have to live with it. Its just a pita when i feed a lot (like trying to entice mandarins to eat while pacifying the swarm of beasts at the other end)

The only thing that additives like that really do is make the food 'smell' different. If the fish are already eating it, then you don't really need to add it IMHO, especially since you have you sexy new box for them to eat in

[metrokat]

ikoechle - the box looks great. The female is fine as long as she is seen hunting pods. Weight loss can be seen in a sunken belly, that fat part in the picture where I said she was eggbound - that will be visibly concave. It's a long way before she reaches that stage, I wouldn't worry as that will make you hover more and she be skittish. Turn off flow when you feed. Once Quinglong is in the box you can feed her wherever in the tank she is to see if she will start eating there.

Finally managed to get a few snapshots of my Mandy, Hercules. I got a free scoopful of live BBS from my LFS yesterday, and he finished them off in less than 2 hours.

 

He's still a bit on the skinny side, even though he's eating live and both frozen four times a day. Any recommendation on how to fatten him up further so that his lateral line is less visible?

 

 

Live black worms are extremely nutritious and fatty.

[lkoechle]

I cant tell you how she looks, but I can say I love that box!! What a great idea to give the mandys a safe place to eat!!

I would love to claim that i am witty and clever. But I am not. Some British lady who's trained 11 wild dragonets (scooters and mandys) to eat paste food (yes, paste) came up with the idea. Its called the Dragonet Den. But I like mine better, with hers you have to stick your hand in the tank with the syringe which I would think would freak them out. I have air tubing that comes out of the tank. Lol the one good thing is the elevated door seems to make it harder for the nass hoard to get in.