Official Mandarin and Dragonet Show off thread

[lkoechle]

Zhuque passed away in the middle of the night. Most likely from starvation. She was getting thin and not eating anything. Not tiggerpods, live black worms, mysis, pellets, rods eggs, sweetfish roe, live brine shrimp, nothing. It was like she just decided to give up. Super bummed. I am throwing the rest of her pods into the display for when I am ready for dragonets again. :'(

[metrokat]

I'm sorry to hear that. One of my mandarins shipped from blue zoo was the same. Never ever even pecked at the rocks. I would watch live brine shrimp and black worms dancing on his nose but he never even showed curiosity. Sometimes they are too stressed and never recover.

[lkoechle]

I'm sorry to hear that. One of my mandarins shipped from blue zoo was the same. Never ever even pecked at the rocks. I would watch live brine shrimp and black worms dancing on his nose but he never even showed curiosity. Sometimes they are too stressed and never recover.

Yeah. I am just torn about what to do in the future. We want to QT everyone now to prevent this from ever happening again, but I don't want to stress a fish like this ever again. We have talked about seeing if the LFS will order an ORA mandy when the time comes so there's better luck of it eating prepared... I don't know. How does someone increase the chances of a successful qt with such a delicate fish?

[cjm3fl]

For delicate fish I like to pick them up at my LFS.

I had one (need to find another) where I could order fish from. I could look at it to see any damage or health issues before paying and taking home. No questions. I didn't like I didn't have to buy.

For something they had in stock I could watch in the DT and the employees would feed it so I could see if it was eating.

 

I know there is a $$ issue most times. Online purchases can save lots of cash.

Some delicate fish just don't travel well and you don't get to observe the fish before it arrives.

 

QT is something I've always done and recommended. Even for CB livestock.

[BulkRate]

I cheated. The place I bought mine from does the qt for you - darkened room with divided tanks fed independently of the main store's circulation w/ a few tiers of overspecced UV & prophylactic treatment regimens for common infections/parasites + time (minimum of 2/3 weeks/variable for some particular species). If you're feeling paranoid they'll even hold the fish out of their main tanks until you pick it up.

 

Makes a $20 mandarin cost $40 but worth it in my books. A lot of locals gripe about the price there, but IMO it's a decent deal. Supposedly during the QT period they also make a concerted effort to wean finicky fish over to a mix of commonly available foods... although mine refused everything but nutramar once in my tank she WAS in great condition at the end of their custody, ie clearly not starved.

[lkoechle]

For delicate fish I like to pick them up at my LFS.

I had one (need to find another) where I could order fish from. I could look at it to see any damage or health issues before paying and taking home. No questions. I didn't like I didn't have to buy.

For something they had in stock I could watch in the DT and the employees would feed it so I could see if it was eating.

 

I know there is a $$ issue most times. Online purchases can save lots of cash.

Some delicate fish just don't travel well and you don't get to observe the fish before it arrives.

 

QT is something I've always done and recommended. Even for CB livestock.

Both of mine were purchased locally. The male I had on prepared foods, the female i bought from a local guy who claimed she ate prepared, but, as you can see, there is no evidence of that whatsoever. My tank broke out in ich so everyone had to be moved and thats what did them in.

[cjm3fl]

Sad to hear about the ich and the lost female Mandarin.

No matter how careful we try to be there's always something that can pop up and bite us.

But we have to try to be careful with the stock we have and any new stock we get.

 

For certain fish I would definitely pay the extra money for that level of pre-purchase care.

My favorite LFS had been open for more then 30 years and suddenly closed up about 3 years back.

A sad, sad day. It specialized in saltwater and had a the most knowledgeable staff.

[LebaneseDlight]

Sorry to hear about the loss I purchased a nice ruby read from Vivid, and drip acclimated it. It hid in my rocks and I never saw it again. When I bought it, it was still in a bag from the distributer. I'm sure starting off with the right specimen is everything.

 

Then I got a pair from UC, which have been eating since day one. I've fed them frozen mysis only, as their mouths are too small for the small pellets I have. Since I have to feed frozen, and I leave so early in the morning for work, I only end up feeding them once a day. I let them feast for about 20 minutes before putting the pumps back on. I would say they eat like 10 mysis shrimp each?

 

With a relatively new system (4 months), I feel like I should feed them twice a day. I'm thinking of buying an auto-feeder, but what can I feed them that doesn't need to eb refrigerated or frozen?

 

Here's an update video I took of them eating the other day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGACHMF-LWg

[jamescstein]

Sorry to hear about the loss I purchased a nice ruby read from Vivid, and drip acclimated it. It hid in my rocks and I never saw it again. When I bought it, it was still in a bag from the distributer. I'm sure starting off with the right specimen is everything.

 

Then I got a pair from UC, which have been eating since day one. I've fed them frozen mysis only, as their mouths are too small for the small pellets I have. Since I have to feed frozen, and I leave so early in the morning for work, I only end up feeding them once a day. I let them feast for about 20 minutes before putting the pumps back on. I would say they eat like 10 mysis shrimp each?

 

With a relatively new system (4 months), I feel like I should feed them twice a day. I'm thinking of buying an auto-feeder, but what can I feed them that doesn't need to eb refrigerated or frozen?

 

Here's an update video I took of them eating the other day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGACHMF-LWg

 

Your best bet I would think is to dump pods pods and more pods in your tank. It is expensive but you can really get a good population going and then your mandy can eat when it wants. All of ours eat all the pods they can find as well as brine/pellets/eggs when we feed. Our male splendus literally dances at feeding time. You could also try a narrow jar on its side filled with the smallest pellets you can find. Eventually the mandy's will find their way into it.

[LebaneseDlight]

Thanks. I have already supplemented with pods, and bought more even more pods, and will start a fuge to populate more pods. But I know pods in a 20gallon, young system with 2 dragonets isn't a sustainable option. They can eat a couple thousand a day from what I've read. What size pellets do most dragonets eat? It's not for lack of trying, they really do try to gobble them up - they just cant fit them into their mouths.

 

I'm currently using these: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0037LZO6O?psc=1

[JoeDigiorgio]

Instead of saying its hard to QT delicate fish, we should be welcoming that period with open arms. It's the perfect opportunity to not only ensure the fish is disease free but also teach it to eat from a pipet. Like I said before, nano tanks are great for these fish because competition for food is minimal and target feeding is easy but for our friends with bigger tanks, it's a huge help that the fish knows to go to the pipette instead of hide from it.

 

People say 'yea but there are no pods in quarantine'. Yea. Exactly. That's my point. Quarantine doesn't have to be stressful. Throw in tons of PVC fittings and some caulerpa unless you have to medicate. The fish doesn't know the difference and as they get hungrier they're more willing to try new things. The ones that don't even try pecking around like you guys shared about above aren't going to live anyway so there's still no reason to skip a month of training before letting them into the display.

[cjm3fl]

Well said, Joe!

[lkoechle]

Instead of saying its hard to QT delicate fish, we should be welcoming that period with open arms. It's the perfect opportunity to not only ensure the fish is disease free but also teach it to eat from a pipet. Like I said before, nano tanks are great for these fish because competition for food is minimal and target feeding is easy but for our friends with bigger tanks, it's a huge help that the fish knows to go to the pipette instead of hide from it.

People say 'yea but there are no pods in quarantine'. Yea. Exactly. That's my point. Quarantine doesn't have to be stressful. Throw in tons of PVC fittings and some caulerpa unless you have to medicate. The fish doesn't know the difference and as they get hungrier they're more willing to try new things. The ones that don't even try pecking around like you guys shared about above aren't going to live anyway so there's still no reason to skip a month of training before letting them into the display.

Yeah except mine just starved itself to death. Thats why its stressful and I do not look forward to it again. And she was fat and happy in my display constantly cruising and hunting and had been kept for 2 1/2 years in her previous tank. You're assertion she would die anyways is therefore false. She stopped eating because she was stressed. Your negativity implies a lack of dedication on my part and I do not appreciate it.

[cjm3fl]

I would take no offense to the post. It's informative and gives some decent information for those of us that don't understand these fish.

 

I am wondering something, since you mentioned she was in her previous tank for 2 1/2 years.

I wonder how old was she? And how old do these guys get?

[lkoechle]

I would take no offense to the post. It's informative and gives some decent information for those of us that don't understand these fish.

 

I am wondering something, since you mentioned she was in her previous tank for 2 1/2 years.

I wonder how old was she? And how old do these guys get?

10 to 15 in the wild. But they have a poor track record in captivity. 2 to 4 years. But it makes me wonder if she would have lived beyond that if her previous owner didn't move.

[cjm3fl]

I had no idea they could live that long.

Being moved to a new tank is always stressful. Even for young and healthy fish.

 

I have a similar concerns with a cat of mine. He's so old and so frail.

The next move I make could kill him, and I'm moving in a week.

[JoeDigiorgio]

Yeah except mine just starved itself to death. Thats why its stressful and I do not look forward to it again. And she was fat and happy in my display constantly cruising and hunting and had been kept for 2 1/2 years in her previous tank. You're assertion she would die anyways is therefore false. She stopped eating because she was stressed. Your negativity implies a lack of dedication on my part and I do not appreciate it.

The post wasn't directed at you it was a general statement about the stigma of quarantining delicate fish and if I recall correctly you said prior that you had already been having issues getting her to eat anyway so I'm not necessarily ready to accept that my statement is false either about long term survival rates of fish that don't take to prepped foods at all. Maybe she was taking something with the previous owner. Not enough to support her without the live stuff in the tank but enough to hold her over when populations were low. There are plenty of more delicate wrasses that this idea also applies to.

 

And sorry to say but there are times in all of our lives where doing your best still isn't enough. It doesn't mean you didn't do your best.

[metrokat]

I had no idea they could live that long.

Being moved to a new tank is always stressful. Even for young and healthy fish.

 

I have a similar concerns with a cat of mine. He's so old and so frail.

The next move I make could kill him, and I'm moving in a week.

You have to make a trip with just the cat. Wrap her in something familiar, like your sweater or her blanket. Hold her while someone else drives. IF this is not possible, use catnip, rescue remedy, talk to her. Anything to alleviate some of her stress. In the new home have her old things already someplace that she can find easily and will be familiar. Keep the litter box right next to it till she calms down enough to explore the new place and find the litter box wherever it is supposed to be.

[lkoechle]

You have to make a trip with just the cat. Wrap her in something familiar, like your sweater or her blanket. Hold her while someone else drives. IF this is not possible, use catnip, rescue remedy, talk to her. Anything to alleviate some of her stress. In the new home have her old things already someplace that she can find easily and will be familiar. Keep the litter box right next to it till she calms down enough to explore the new place and find the litter box wherever it is supposed to be.

My 10 year old is still pretty vivacious but he liked being on his cat leash in the car and slept in the footwell the whole time. The crate really stressed him out, to the point he explosively urinated everywhere. He didn't like being held while wrapped in a towel or on the towel on my lap. The footwell seemed to calm him the best. I think because it was kind of dark, but he wasn't enclosed so he didn't feel trapped and it was stable, not rocking like the crate or my lap. Just things to keep in mind while moving with your feline. A harness could be a good option and give you another avenue if the crate or lap doesn't work out like with us. We moved from Phoenix, AZ to Denver, CO with a hotel trip too. Stressful event, but the cat adjusted okay. We stuck a small litter pan in the trunk and moved it to the footwell when we were stopped or driving around a town so he could relieve himself. I think he only did it once and then held it until the hotel.

[metrokat]

My cat is terrified of stepping outside the apartment, vet visits are an ordeal for this reason. I had to go to the animal hospital for an emergency last year, was 45 minutes away. When I got there they thought he was having respiratory issues as the emergency because of his crazy breathing. He was there for blood in his stool and vomit. The breathing problems were just his stress due to the car ride. They had to put him in an O2 chamber for 45 minutes to calm him down before his examination.

[cjm3fl]

Thanks for the tips, everyone. I'll put them all some kind of use.

This move will take about 1 1/2 hour travel time where the others haven't been more then 10 or 15 minutes.

He just hates anything to do with "outside" and now that's he's pushing 13 or 14 years old it's the stress of change that gets him most.

 

Now the 'little guy', he just gets too excited about anything new!

[JoeDigiorgio]

So today I introduced the new male ruby red from QT to the dragonet and baby clownfish tank. I only QTed him about a week because I'm lucky enough to have a store in my county that quarantines and premedicates very reliably. Their fish cost a premium but well worth it. So it was more for peace of mind and pipette training but he took to it all very quickly.

 

I'm not gonna lie I was nervous my spotted was going to kick his ass but they're getting along great. I added some tigriopus from my culture station and they pecked away at them right next to each other. Cleared a shot glass full of shocked tiggers in way under a minute.

 

I took a video of the ruby's acclimation ill post later, I'm leaving for my moms now. You will see the spotted wasn't welcoming at first. I made sure he was full of mysis before I let the ruby out and I'm happy with their interactions now.

 

Now I'm searching for not one but two different females...ugh.

[kimberbee]

Thanks for the tips, everyone. I'll put them all some kind of use.

This move will take about 1 1/2 hour travel time where the others haven't been more then 10 or 15 minutes.

He just hates anything to do with "outside" and now that's he's pushing 13 or 14 years old it's the stress of change that gets him most.

 

Now the 'little guy', he just gets too excited about anything new!

 

While I don't know the overall health of your cat... my sister moved from Chicago-area to London with her 17 year old cat. Her kitty made it just fine. Good luck!

[cjm3fl]

I'll look forward to your video, Joe.

I've fallen in love with the Ruby the moment I saw my first one!

Starting to plan a tank with small fish. Would love to be able to include a few of these.

 

Thanks kimberbee. We'll see how it goes.

[JoeDigiorgio]

Excuse the loud TV and my girlfriend laughing at YouTube videos in the background.