CNCreef Asis Pro 824 LED/T5HO Evil Cluster Hybrid

[jedimasterben]

Eh, you'll still only get that shimmer in the middle of the tank.

[bamby]

hi jedi is this a good led BXRA-40E0950-B-03 to run with four luxeon M 12 watts RB leds and 4 hv from LGB

[jedimasterben]

The 950-B is the main LED that this thread is about.

[bamby]

but the last two number of the numeration what is the difference from the BXRA-40E0950-B-03 to the BXRA-40E0950-B-00

[jedimasterben]

The -03 is the replacement for the -00. http://www.bridgelux.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/DS24-Bridgelux-ES-Rectangle-Array-Data-Sheet-2013.10.11.pdf

 

 

Slightly better performance, but realistically the difference is negligible.

[bamby]

ok thanks will be ordering on Monday 3 for my 40bd tank plan is to run them with no optics and see how the colors blend

[jedimasterben]

They blend damn well without lenses, and pretty well with them, too.

[jedimasterben]

Ordered six Bridgelux Vero10 4000K chips for the arrays, figured while I'm moving them to a new heatsink/housing might as well get it up to date

 

 

 

I think that for the big tank I'll use:

 

4x Bridgelux VERO10 4000K @ ~250mA (2x in parallel on two 500mA LDD)

8x Luxeon M RB @ 1000mA

8x Cree XP-E2 blue @ 1000mA

8x LEDGroupBuy HV @ 700mA

8x LEDGroupBuy TV @ 700mA

2x 39wATI Coral Plus

 

The little tank:
2x Bridgelux VERO10 4000K @ ~250mA (2x parallel on a 500mA LDD)

4x Luxeon M RB @ 1000mA

4x Cree XP-E2 blue @ 1000mA

4x LEDGroupBuy HV @ 700mA
4x LEDGroupBuy TV @ 700mA

2x 24w ATI Coral Plus

 

 

Note that those are maximum currents and I probably won't run them that high in practice, and if I do, it'll be on a parabolic or bell curve over the course of the photoperiod. Aiming for ~150 PAR across the sand. I don't think I will be dimming the T5 bulbs since it reduces the useful life of the phosphors by quite a bit. I took the dimming function off of the current array a couple of weeks ago and haven't seen any negative responses.

 

 

You guys will notice that I am reducing the amount of violet by good amount (down from 20x HV with tight optics in my current array) and doing a 50/50 ratio of 430nm and 405nm. This is due to the immense amount of PAR that the HV are capable of, if I run them at full power I cannot keep anything else turned up and the tank is pretty dim. I want to have a hard limit of 500 PAR at any point in the tank, no coral can photosynthesize above that and any pigments will still show up without needing more to activate the coral's protection.

 

Also of note is the (planned) switch to the XP-E2 for the standard blue, as long as they test out to be lower in wavelength than the Rebel blue which are closer to cyan.

Whoops, I guess I should add that I'm finally moving the damn tank to another room and adding in the 24x24x12 30g tank into the system, and switching from a large custom canopy to both tanks using custom Nanobox heatsinks and housings.

[You_Wrasse_is_Mine]

I dont know about you guys, but I'm finding that I need quite a bit of CB to get the look I'm after. Nearly 75% of the same amount of RB I'm pushing, but man does it look great! I will never skimp on CB again

[jedimasterben]

You're using Rebels, right?

[You_Wrasse_is_Mine]

You're using Rebels, right?

I switched the rebels out for xp-e2

[jedimasterben]

I just got an email back from Milad and he's saying that the XP-E2 are M2 bin and order code 201, which basically means they are unbinned for wavelength and are anywhere from 465-485nm.

 

So you're not running them at the same current or you want to add more of them? Compared to the royal blue what do they look like, do they look a bit toward cyan?

[You_Wrasse_is_Mine]

I just got an email back from Milad and he's saying that the XP-E2 are M2 bin and order code 201, which basically means they are unbinned for wavelength and are anywhere from 465-485nm.

 

So you're not running them at the same current or you want to add more of them? Compared to the royal blue what do they look like, do they look a bit toward cyan?

Not sure what bin the ones from LGB are. I was unable to find that info. I did do a sample array with RB XT-E/CB rebel/CB XP-E. They were deffinetly bluer then the rebels and sat nicely between the RB and rebel C. Much better then the rebel CB did.

 

Now I must say that I have a 460nm CB (off brand) and the XP-E2 that i have are about 5-10nm greener then them which would put them at about 465-470nm if I were to make a good guess.

 

I am running them at 1000ma same as the rebels were. I did add 2 extra CB though. The rebels were a little brighter.

[milfordguy]

Hey Ben, why did you decide to switch from the BXRA's to the Vero's? I was about to pull the trigger on two BXRA's for my 40 Breeder build.

[jedimasterben]

Not sure what bin the ones from LGB are. I was unable to find that info. I did do a sample array with RB XT-E/CB rebel/CB XP-E. They were deffinetly bluer then the rebels and sat nicely between the RB and rebel C. Much better then the rebel CB did.

 

Now I must say that I have a 460nm CB (off brand) and the XP-E2 that i have are about 5-10nm greener then them which would put them at about 465-470nm if I were to make a good guess.

 

I am running them at 1000ma same as the rebels were. I did add 2 extra CB though. The rebels were a little brighter.

That's what I got from Milad, they are unbinned 465-485nm ones in the M2 bin (which is 39.8lm at 350mA).

 

Are the 'generic' CB from LEDGroupbuy? I keep meaning to order a couple of those and put them side by side.

 

Hey Ben, why did you decide to switch from the BXRA's to the Vero's? I was about to pull the trigger on two BXRA's for my 40 Breeder build.

Mostly because they're available. Bridgelux has not changed their phosphor sets, so a 4000K ES array will look the same as a 4000K Vero. The Vero is a little more efficient, but the forward voltage is higher, so instead of being able to run two per LDD, you can only run one or multiple in parallel strings.

[milfordguy]

Are these the vero's you're using? It looks like they are 500ma.

[You_Wrasse_is_Mine]

The generic CB are no names from china somewhere. They may be from Aquastyle.

[jedimasterben]

Are these the vero's you're using? It looks like they are 500ma.

Those are the Vero13. I'm using the Vero10. 500mA is the test current. Check out their datasheets for the currents and outputs and such. http://www.bridgelux.com/products/vero-series/product-datasheets/

 

The generic CB are no names from china somewhere. They may be from Aquastyle.

Gotcha. The older Rebels I got from Steve's just after I convinced him to order more choices than cool white and royal blue were much more 'blue' than cyan, but those seem to be long gone. le sigh.

[jedimasterben]

Ok, so to compare according to the actual bins, Steve's CB Rebels are H4E (50-60lm, 3.27-3.51v, 475-480nm at 350mA) and LEDGroupBuy XP-E2 blue are 201 (39.8lm, 465-485nm at 350mA). The Rebels are in a much tighter bin (and are very close to the ~490nm start of 'cyan') but higher than the possibility of getting a lower dominant wavelength from the XP-E2. Unfortunately, the XP-E2 doesn't come in a tight bin (5nm width for the dominant wavelength) that is close to 465nm.

[You_Wrasse_is_Mine]

Ok, so to compare according to the actual bins, Steve's CB Rebels are H4E (50-60lm, 3.27-3.51v, 475-480nm at 350mA) and LEDGroupBuy XP-E2 blue are 201 (39.8lm, 465-485nm at 350mA). The Rebels are in a much tighter bin (and are very close to the ~490nm start of 'cyan') but higher than the possibility of getting a lower dominant wavelength from the XP-E2. Unfortunately, the XP-E2 doesn't come in a tight bin (5nm width for the dominant wavelength) that is close to 465nm.

I took a gamble and ordered them from LGB. They get the job done just fine for me. There much bluer then the rebel CB. I wouldn't get too hung up here because the chances of actually seeing a difference between the chips I have and a known lower bin number in the midst of all the other arrays will be nearly impossible IMO. Even the difference between the rebels and these xp-e's is minimal though there is a difference when compared side by side. These xp-e make the rebels look quite green.

[milfordguy]

Those are the Vero13. I'm using the Vero10. 500mA is the test current. Check out their datasheets for the currents and outputs and such. http://www.bridgelux.com/products/vero-series/product-datasheets/

 

Gotcha. The older Rebels I got from Steve's just after I convinced him to order more choices than cool white and royal blue were much more 'blue' than cyan, but those seem to be long gone. le sigh.

How about optics? I didn't really see any on their site. I know you are using between 40 and 60 on your other LEDs if I'm not mistaken.

 

Also, judging by your numbers are you using a different ratio of RB to white? Looks like possibly 2 Luxeon M and 2 Blue per 1 Vero? And then 2 HV and 2 TV per cluster?

[jedimasterben]

I took a gamble and ordered them from LGB. They get the job done just fine for me. There much bluer then the rebel CB. I wouldn't get too hung up here because the chances of actually seeing a difference between the chips I have and a known lower bin number in the midst of all the other arrays will be nearly impossible IMO. Even the difference between the rebels and these xp-e's is minimal though there is a difference when compared side by side. These xp-e make the rebels look quite green.

Gotcha. I'll probably end up ordering some of their 'exotic' cool blue and see how they stack up, too. Those are spectrally measured unlike the others.

 

 

How about optics? I didn't really see any on their site. I know you are using between 40 and 60 on your other LEDs if I'm not mistaken.

Optics on the array right now are 50° reflectors on the BXRA, 63° reflectors on the M, generic 90° lens on the blue Rebels, and 60° on the hyper violet.

Also, judging by your numbers are you using a different ratio of RB to white? Looks like possibly 2 Luxeon M and 2 Blue per 1 Vero? And then 2 HV and 2 TV per cluster?

Right now I'm using one BXRA-40E950-B-00 to four RB M at the same maximum current of 1000mA. This is approximately 1,955 lumens of white and 24,840mW of royal blue, a 1:12.7 ratio. I run the white LEDs at half the current of the royal blue.

 

The next array is one Vero10 per two RB M, the Vero at 250mA and the M at 1000mA, so approximately 870 lumens of white to 12,420mW of royal blue, a 1:14.3 ratio (which is close to how it was). Then one standard blue per M at the same current, and then a pair each of HV and TV.

[KnH]

jedimasterben Is This what you are saying about your next Evil Clone

 

[jedimasterben]

pretty much, just a little different scale

[milfordguy]

Gotcha. I'll probably end up ordering some of their 'exotic' cool blue and see how they stack up, too. Those are spectrally measured unlike the others.

 

 

Optics on the array right now are 50° reflectors on the BXRA, 63° reflectors on the M, generic 90° lens on the blue Rebels, and 60° on the hyper violet.

Right now I'm using one BXRA-40E950-B-00 to four RB M at the same maximum current of 1000mA. This is approximately 1,955 lumens of white and 24,840mW of royal blue, a 1:12.7 ratio. I run the white LEDs at half the current of the royal blue.

 

The next array is one Vero10 per two RB M, the Vero at 250mA and the M at 1000mA, so approximately 870 lumens of white to 12,420mW of royal blue, a 1:14.3 ratio (which is close to how it was). Then one standard blue per M at the same current, and then a pair each of HV and TV.

 

 

Are you expecting this array to have approximately the same color temperature as your original? I see that it is almost the same ratio so I'm assuming that's what you mean. I'm just a little new to these terms lol

 

If I'm not planning on running T5's would you suggest adding anything else to the clusters?