THE OFFICIAL ASK ALBERT THIEL THREAD

[albertthiel]

Albert,

 

I am starting a tank soon and would like to keep pests out. I will have simply Base Rock (BRS Eco Rocks) and CaribSea Arag-Alive "Live Sand" I realize the "Live Sand" just has some bacteria added to help with the cycle etc.. So my question is:

 

Will having essentially "Dead" rock and barely "Live Sand" create the needed biological filtration needed for a healthy tank?

 

Most people say "Get some sand from an established tank" but honestly would like to minimize risk of introducing pets etc..

 

Time isn't an issue, so if the time to establish the needed biological filtration is going to take 2+ months or however long, doesn't matter to me. I am taking it slow, and doing it right once.

 

Using that type of rock and the kind of live sand you say should certainly minimize HH's and probably none will come in with the rock and as you say yourself the sand may bring in only bacteria so you should be ok there.

 

Cycling will occur of course as long as there is a source for the cycle to begin, so you may need to add some organic material that can break down, such as a little fish food, or one of the cycle starting additives that are sold.

 

Once the tank has cycled, if you do not add life forms, you need to keep organic material in the tank to keep the bacteria alive and going and that is done either by adding small amounts of food that can decompose and keep the bacterial filter to continue, or by adding more of the additive I mentioned.

 

If there is no food for the bacteria, their numbers will slowly go down and you end up with a sterile system if noting is done to keep teh nitrogen cycle going, so either add a fish, or an organic additive or one of the products sold to keep biological filters running and you will be ok.

 

Hopefully this helps but if you have more questions do not hesitate to post them here on this thread

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

the tank will cycle on its own. Everyone has personal preferences. Adding established media to your tank can but will not always speed up the cycle process. But at this point you expose yourself to potential pests

 

Yes the tank will cycle but only if there is organic matter in the tank that decomposes for the bacteria to feed on and multiply, and once the tank has cycled, to keep the biological filter going, organic matter needs to be in the tank so it can decompose and continue to feed the bacteria .. or actually for bacteria to continue to grow and multiply ... as no food for the bacteria in the tank == they die off, and eventually the tank becomes sterile again ... so either organic matter needs to be added, or a life form or as I noted above one of the many products that are around to cycle a tank.

 

Of course once the cycle has completed fish or other life forms can be added and that will keep the cycle going too.

 

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

For me time is no issue. I won't even be adding corals or livestock for months anyways, and prefer to have a more mature tank before doing so. Thanks for the reply.

 

Yes I understand but once the tank has cycled, for the cycle to continue as explained you need organic material in the tank or the bacterial filter will die off, so if you do not add fish or organic matter it will not continue. See my messages above that suggest what you will need to do. IMO after a month or so when the cycle has completed you can start adding life forms slowly and you will be ok.

 

And on HH's if you do add anything to the tank other than fish inspect it carefully for any unwanted lifeforms such as snails, or nudibranchs or whatever may come along on pieces of rock you add.

 

It is practically not possible to avoid introducing some other life forms when you add a piece of rock ... and even if you do not see anything on them, there may be some life forms that will grow over time and develop.

 

I have a number of them in my own tank that I never intentionally added but that are there now anyway and I did inspect everything I added carefully.

 

When the tank cycled it is best to add some life forms, including a clean up crew that consumes detritus and uneaten food that you fed to whatever you added e.g. fish or a coral or invert or whatever you added.

 

Just start the tank up and when that is done if you have any other questions feel free to post them here and I will be more than happy to answer them.

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

The Large Worm Overview Article

 

© Chuck's Addiction

 

 

The vast majority of worms will prove to be harmless or at the least, a predator of other small worms and pose no threat to the larger life forms that we place in our tanks.

 

Of course there are exceptions. While some worms can grow large and seem threatening they are in fact a vital part of the clean up crew, taking care of unseen livestock deaths and left over food.

 

It is this clean up service that they provide that has led to some species being labeled as fish killers as they are usually blamed for such fish losses when they are seen on the corpse of the fish doing their job of cleaning house.

 

Link : http://www.chucksaddiction.com/hitchworms.html

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

At-A-Glance Guide to Marine Life

 

Limpets, Snails, Nudibranchs, Bi-valves, Chitons and more

 

© DereilaNature

 

Link : http://www.dereilanatureinn.ca/lagoon/marine-guide/index.htm

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

The Candelabrum Hydroid: A killer ?

 

© Julian Sprung

 

Link : http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/6/inverts

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

Does a Reef Need Activated Carbon ?

 

A long review by Joe Jaworski

 

Link: http://joejaworski.wordpress.com/2008/05/09/does-a-reef-tank-need-carbon/

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

Feather Dusters and the Reef Aquarium

 

© Julian Sprung

 

Link : http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/8/inverts

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

A few images of unwanted Nudibranchs. Great photography but not so nice Nudis !

 

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2008/06/nudibranchs/doubilet-photography#/1-green-striped-714.jpg

 

Albert

[Paul.b]

Injecting it into your skimmer would IMO be like adding a stronger ozonizer to the tank and would not have the same effect as the Oxydator does. You can try it out and see what happens but watch your ORP carefully to make sure it does not suddenly shoot up to far too high a level.

 

I guess you need to think some more about how to make what you have more Oxydator like.

 

Albert

 

So on your question :

 

Both are basically doing the same thing except that if you inject in the skimmer and then flow it over the algae scrubber you are greatly reducing its ORP because the algae will take up oxygen out of the water in addition to the nutrients you are trying to eliminate.

 

Now if you set it in the tank then the oxygen gets directly in the tank's water and increases its oxygen level and ORP.

 

You could do a test and that is measure the ORP of the water coming out of the skimmer and then measure the ORP of the water right before it flows back into the tank and I am sure you will find quite a difference. At the skimmer end it should be real high and on the other side it will have lost if I had to guess around 100/150 mv or so, but that is just a guess.

 

Putting the "Paulydator" in the tank will gets oxygen in the tank's water and that raises the ORP in the tank and more oxidation of of organics will take place and the water quality will improve.

 

The redox in your tank now is lower than what it will be when you have the device producing tiny bubbles that mix with the water in the tank ... Hope this makes sense.

 

Albert

I know what you are saying but I am not sure about the algae trough removing oxygen, the algae is well lit and makes oxygen, I think the oxygen from the oxidator (or Paulydator) will just add to the oxygen already created by the algae. I also think it will be hard to notice a difference in my tank with aded oxygen due to the fact that the algae produces pure oxygen already.

I just want to do this as an experiment but I still think that putting the output of the oxidator through an orifice like a venturi or powerhead will diffues much more oxygen into the water than just letting it bubble out in microscope bubbles. A venturi greatly increases the preasure there by producing much smaller bubbles. If you increase the preasure even a little more the oxygen will be completely in solution without forming bubbles like a soda bottle is before you open it or the nitrogen in a SCUBA divers blood when he decends.

I feel the oxygen will do much more good if it is completely diffused in the water.

I can also diffues the oxygen bubbles into the intake of the powerhead that runs my RUGF. The oxygen would go under the gravel and that part of the tank has the most preasure so the bubbles will remain tiny and stay these longer or they may completely diffuse into the water without evenmaking bubbles. I really need an oxygen tester.

I can easily build an oxidator like the commercial model but I like to improve on things and I don't think the way it works is optimal. It's just me.

 

 

 

 

What are your thoughts on that?

[nanoreefnate]

Hello Mr Thiel,

I have been trying to research the importance of a reverse light cycle refugium, but I have not found a very good answer to my question. How important is it to have a refugium reverse lit, and will having the refugium on the same light cycle as the display tank cause adverse effects on the inhabitants? Additionally, does a refugium necessarily need a deep sand/mud bed or can it just contain live rock and macro algae such as cheato? Thank you for your time.

[albertthiel]

I know what you are saying but I am not sure about the algae trough removing oxygen, the algae is well lit and makes oxygen, I think the oxygen from the oxidator (or Paulydator) will just add to the oxygen already created by the algae. I also think it will be hard to notice a difference in my tank with aded oxygen due to the fact that the algae produces pure oxygen already.

I just want to do this as an experiment but I still think that putting the output of the oxidator through an orifice like a venturi or powerhead will diffues much more oxygen into the water than just letting it bubble out in microscope bubbles. A venturi greatly increases the preasure there by producing much smaller bubbles. If you increase the preasure even a little more the oxygen will be completely in solution without forming bubbles like a soda bottle is before you open it or the nitrogen in a SCUBA divers blood when he decends.

I feel the oxygen will do much more good if it is completely diffused in the water.

I can also diffues the oxygen bubbles into the intake of the powerhead that runs my RUGF. The oxygen would go under the gravel and that part of the tank has the most preasure so the bubbles will remain tiny and stay these longer or they may completely diffuse into the water without evenmaking bubbles. I really need an oxygen tester.

I can easily build an oxidator like the commercial model but I like to improve on things and I don't think the way it works is optimal. It's just me.

 

What are your thoughts on that?

 

Well I guess the thing to do then is to try it out ... and inject it into the skimmer and let's see what happens .. it should not take a long time to see a difference if indeed this raises the oxygen content ... and if you take an ORP reading before and while it is going on, let's see if their is an increase.

 

And on the water running over the algae, if you can do the ORP test that I suggested, I would be interested in seeing what ORP numbers you come up with Paul

 

Let's do it .. well I mean can "you" do it so we get some numbers to look at ... Thanks

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

Hello Mr Thiel,

I have been trying to research the importance of a reverse light cycle refugium, but I have not found a very good answer to my question. How important is it to have a refugium reverse lit, and will having the refugium on the same light cycle as the display tank cause adverse effects on the inhabitants? Additionally, does a refugium necessarily need a deep sand/mud bed or can it just contain live rock and macro algae such as cheato? Thank you for your time.

 

The reverse cycle is actually used to cut down on pH fluctuations, as the algae in the refugium produce oxygen while the lights are on then there will be less CO2 in the water and less downpull on the pH.

 

If you run it on the same cycle as your other lights nothing untoward will happen, but you will not get the benefit of the reduced pH swings between morning readings and later on during the day when photosynthesis has been going on for a while.

 

No, you do not need a deep sand bed in your refugium, in fact I personally do not like it, but you can have a shallow one if you wish, and put some CUC's in there that keep it stirred.

 

If you do not then some live rock is fine but remember to squirt any accumulated detritus off it once week or so so it can be removed by your mechanical filter as it moves out of the refugium and in the main water column.

 

And yes, put as many macro-algae in there as you can, and you may also want to put some pods in there so they can multiply and serve as food for your fish that may need pods as food.

 

Hopefully this helps but if you have more questions do not hesitate to post them here on this thread.

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

Great News from Reef Builders :

 

The intro of a new online aquarium magazine ... Editorial by Tony Vargas

 

Link : http://reefbuilders.com/2013/01/19/editorial/

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

Rescuing Acanthastrea Coral

 

Part 1 : http://www.reefdup.com/2012/10/28/rescuing-dying-corals-acanthastrea-part-i/

 

Part 2: http://www.reefdup.com/2012/10/30/rescuing-dying-corals-acanthastrea-part-ii/

 

.

Albert

[Paul.b]

Let's do it .. well I mean can "you" do it so we get some numbers to look at ... Thanks

 

Albert

Let me check out my ORP probe, as I am not sure how accurate it is or if it is even working. It is probably 15 years old but I can test it with some bleach.

I just love experimenting.

 

 

[albertthiel]

Let me check out my ORP probe, as I am not sure how accurate it is or if it is even working. It is probably 15 years old but I can test it with some bleach.

I just love experimenting.

 

Thanks Paul ... should be interesting to see what you come up with ... Hope you can get the prove cleaned up and calibrated

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

Let me check out my ORP probe, as I am not sure how accurate it is or if it is even working. It is probably 15 years old but I can test it with some bleach.

I just love experimenting.

 

Yes you are the " Experimenpaulogist " !

[Paul.b]

Why do we find this stuff so facinating?

 

I don't know about many of you guys but I have been watching fish for well over half a century and today as I was sitting close to my tank watching every move of every tentacle I started thinking. Wow, I must really be a fish Geek.
After all these years and countless hours peering at fish in my tank, in other tanks, in LFSs and while diving, everything about them still facinate me and I never get bored.
I mean, I still like looking at girls, scenery, my boat, my Grand daughter and other things, fish are such a large part of my life and always have. It is in my genes as my family has been in the fish business as far back as history goes but that is a different sort of fish, that is just dinner.
As I was looking at the tank just now I turned off the pumps after I filled the baby brine shrimp feeder with new born shrimp. In a minute or two, the two mandarins stopped their eternal hunt for pods and made a Bee line to the feeder.
Did the shrimp text them that it was dinner time? Do mandarins smell pods? Do they hear them? I don't see ears on my mandarins and I can't hear baby brine shrimp, well maybe when they bump into each other but that rarely happens.
The copperband butterfly also knows exactly when baby brine shrimp are served and he just finished eating a large portion of fresh clams and live worms so I am surprised he can still eat.
I turn on the pumps just for a minute to scatter some shrimp through out the tank, then again turn off the pumps. Now the fun starts because the zinia start pulsing as they sense the shrimp hitting their tentacles and thin tentacles pop out from every crevace. Tiny hermit crabs that I didn't even realize were in there set out looking for food that they smell.
The clams I fed are their favorite food and they literally run in every direction until they find a piece, often crashing into each other. I wonder if they recognize each other, give a high five, remark on the new shell they may be sporting or just ignore anything that is not edible.
The sheer number of tentacles emerging from every place is also a wonder. How do all these things ever get enough to eat?
It is not like I dump in a Happy Meal from Burger King, food by necessity is kind of scarce except at feeding time and then it all is devoured as soon as it hits the water.
If I look even closer, I can just see the tiny faces of amphipods trying to determine if it is safe to venture out for a bite of something. I collect them in the summer and dump them in but they seem to like the tropical temperatures of the tank and even re produce. I find them in the skimmer bathing in the ozone infused water. So much for ozone killing everything and being so dangerous.
The large volume of bristle worms remain hiding but if I look under the rocks or in the dark recesses in the back of the tank, I can see them just chilling with each other. They know, that I know they come out at night hunting for prey and that prey could be anything on the gravel from a clam to a freshly shed crustacean. I can easily trap them with my bristle worm trap but that is an ongoing task as these things have been in the tank from the beginning and the gene pool goes back to when Nixon was President. (He was after Lincoln)
Of course while I am checking out the tiny stuff the fish keep blocking my view, they have no respect. I have these two fireclowns that are very old and they spawn but even when the female has no eggs, the male keeps trying to push her into his pad (broken bottle) where he has been cleaning a nest since before Paris Hilton was born. Way before. I can't blame him though, I would do the same thing, she is cute. I had hermit crabs that also did that but I am not sure if the larger one wanted to mate or just steal her shell. I lost them a year ago when they were about 13 years old. I am not sure if that is old for a crab as Social Security doesn't keep records on them. But the male (I think) would chase the female, (not very fast) and he would push her into a coral then jump into her shell. I always stopped looking at that point because I am not A perv, but I think they spawned many times. It is hard to tell with hermit crabs but that is what I think because I would then see him standing on one claw, leaning against a rock smoking a cigarette.

Being a fish Geek isn't to bad unless you are in mixed company with a bunch of people you just met. Like last night, my Son N law opened a new restaurant and it was just for friends and family but there were quite a few people there that I just met. When they ask me what I do, I am not going to say I am a fish Geek and I put on magnifying goggles, kneel in front of my tank in the dark with a flashlight looking for amphipods and worms. Of course not, I say I am a Martial Arts instructor, test pilot, Double for George Cluney, secret service agent, Navy Seal or all of the above. I will be married 40 years this year and to this day my wife thinks I am Sylvestor Stallone's personal body guard and I haven't even told her yet, that we have fish.

[albertthiel]

Why do we find this stuff so facinating?

 

 

I don't know about many of you guys but I have been watching fish for well over half a century and today as I was sitting close to my tank watching every move of every tentacle I started thinking. Wow, I must really be a fish Geek.

After all these years and countless hours peering at fish in my tank, in other tanks, in LFSs and while diving, everything about them still facinate me and I never get bored.

I mean, I still like looking at girls, scenery, my boat, my Grand daughter and other things, fish are such a large part of my life and always have. It is in my genes as my family has been in the fish business as far back as history goes but that is a different sort of fish, that is just dinner.

As I was looking at the tank just now I turned off the pumps after I filled the baby brine shrimp feeder with new born shrimp. In a minute or two, the two mandarins stopped their eternal hunt for pods and made a Bee line to the feeder.

Did the shrimp text them that it was dinner time? Do mandarins smell pods? Do they hear them? I don't see ears on my mandarins and I can't hear baby brine shrimp, well maybe when they bump into each other but that rarely happens.

The copperband butterfly also knows exactly when baby brine shrimp are served and he just finished eating a large portion of fresh clams and live worms so I am surprised he can still eat.

I turn on the pumps just for a minute to scatter some shrimp through out the tank, then again turn off the pumps. Now the fun starts because the zinia start pulsing as they sense the shrimp hitting their tentacles and thin tentacles pop out from every crevace. Tiny hermit crabs that I didn't even realize were in there set out looking for food that they smell.

The clams I fed are their favorite food and they literally run in every direction until they find a piece, often crashing into each other. I wonder if they recognize each other, give a high five, remark on the new shell they may be sporting or just ignore anything that is not edible.

The sheer number of tentacles emerging from every place is also a wonder. How do all these things ever get enough to eat?

It is not like I dump in a Happy Meal from Burger King, food by necessity is kind of scarce except at feeding time and then it all is devoured as soon as it hits the water.

If I look even closer, I can just see the tiny faces of amphipods trying to determine if it is safe to venture out for a bite of something. I collect them in the summer and dump them in but they seem to like the tropical temperatures of the tank and even re produce. I find them in the skimmer bathing in the ozone infused water. So much for ozone killing everything and being so dangerous.

The large volume of bristle worms remain hiding but if I look under the rocks or in the dark recesses in the back of the tank, I can see them just chilling with each other. They know, that I know they come out at night hunting for prey and that prey could be anything on the gravel from a clam to a freshly shed crustacean. I can easily trap them with my bristle worm trap but that is an ongoing task as these things have been in the tank from the beginning and the gene pool goes back to when Nixon was President. (He was after Lincoln)

Of course while I am checking out the tiny stuff the fish keep blocking my view, they have no respect. I have these two fireclowns that are very old and they spawn but even when the female has no eggs, the male keeps trying to push her into his pad (broken bottle) where he has been cleaning a nest since before Paris Hilton was born. Way before. I can't blame him though, I would do the same thing, she is cute. I had hermit crabs that also did that but I am not sure if the larger one wanted to mate or just steal her shell. I lost them a year ago when they were about 13 years old. I am not sure if that is old for a crab as Social Security doesn't keep records on them. But the male (I think) would chase the female, (not very fast) and he would push her into a coral then jump into her shell. I always stopped looking at that point because I am not A perv, but I think they spawned many times. It is hard to tell with hermit crabs but that is what I think because I would then see him standing on one claw, leaning against a rock smoking a cigarette.

 

Being a fish Geek isn't to bad unless you are in mixed company with a bunch of people you just met. Like last night, my Son N law opened a new restaurant and it was just for friends and family but there were quite a few people there that I just met. When they ask me what I do, I am not going to say I am a fish Geek and I put on magnifying goggles, kneel in front of my tank in the dark with a flashlight looking for amphipods and worms. Of course not, I say I am a Martial Arts instructor, test pilot, Double for George Cluney, secret service agent, Navy Seal or all of the above. I will be married 40 years this year and to this day my wife thinks I am Sylvestor Stallone's personal body guard and I haven't even told her yet, that we have fish.

 

That is a great story Paul and yes it is true ... that is what we do ... even after all those years of keeping fish and corals we still marvel at what we see in our aquariums as it seems like every time we look it is a different scene and yet other life forms we did not know we had show up somehow . Thanks are fascinating and looking at them in the manner you describe is addictive !

 

Truly fascinating indeed ... thanks for penning that store ... I truly enjoyed reading it .

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

The Narcosis Angel Fish

 

Link : http://reefbuilders.com/2013/01/19/rapture-deep-elusive-narcosis-angelfish/

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

Great video of a Clown "riding" the Wave from the Power Head and What A Ride it Is ...

 

From Hobbyist Dana

 

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

Yuma being Fed Thawed Frozen Clam Shavings

 

Before and After view

 

Note that the other Yuma was fed yesterday so it is not showing any real difference between the two images. Fish ate the clam shaving with "gusto" and Candy Cane will be fed tonight as will the other corals. Note that the Clam shavings look larger than they really are ...

 

Clam shavings on the Yuma ... look at the change in appearance after the shavings have been lying on the Yuma for maybe 30 to 45 seconds

 

 

 

No more clam shavings to be seen. They were slowly moved towards the middle and ingested

 

 

Albert

[Paul.b]

OK I have some numbers and I fixed my ORP probe. My numbers yesterday were most likely wrong. This morning the ORP in the tank was 214 with no oxidator. My tank runs low probably because of it's age and all the stuff I add. In the algae trough it was 229 which makes sense because the water with the ozone in it flows through there.

When I injected the oxygen from the oxidator into the skimmer for about an hour the reading went up to 263 in the trough.

Now I put the outlet from the oxidator back into my powerhead where it fills the tank with miniscule oxygen bubbles and after 2 hours the ORP in the tank is 263.

So it seems to have gone up 49 points with the oxidator. I am going to let it run all night like this and see what happens.

This is hard to tell because the ORP changes during the day anyway. But after I run it all night I should have a better idea. I know the orp probe is working now because I put it in a tube, then added a little Clorox and it went up quite a bit.

 

When I have time I want to remove the tube from the powerhead and stick it either in the powerhead that feeds the UG filter or back into the skimmer which is easier.

[albertthiel]

Link to the First Articles in Aquarium Frontiers RB Magazine

 

http://reefbuilders.com/author/tonyvargas/

 

 

Albert