albertthiel Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Well we do read about some strange discoveries but this one is a Real Strange one: "Sperm Casting" by Barnacles © The Huffington Post Link : http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/19/barnacle-spermcast-penis_n_2507077.html Albert Quote Link to comment
Paul.b Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 OK problem solved, somewhat. What I did was to install the device outside the tank and I have an air hose entering the intake of a powerhead. This is so cool but I don't want it to run like this very long because the entire tank is now filled with very tiny oxygen bubbles that resemble smoke. I will let it go for a while just for an experiment but I don't like the look. If I had a sump, this would be the way to go because the bubbles are so tiny that they stay in solution for a very long time. About every 3 seconds, my powerhead pumps out a puff of "smoke". My ORP reading now is 439 which is higher than I have ever seen it and higher than I would like. If I reduced the size of the catalyst, it would produce much less oxygen which is what I may have to do. I may wake up tomorrow and everything including myself will have Pop Eye. Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 As I suspected, it does work with a tube, I have it working now about 6" deep. I don't know how deep I can get it to work but I would imagine if I wait a while the oxygen produced will be under enough preasure to go to the bottom of my tank, if not, I will have to submerge the entire unit like the commercial ones. I also don't like the stream of bubbles and feel this is not a great way to introduce oxygen into the tank. Even though the bubbles are tiny, they come to the surface and burst there by wasting most of the gas. I want the oxygen to infuse with the water, without becomming obvious bubbles. That will be a little trickier but hopefully not insurmountable. Also in freshwater like I have it now in my worm tank, the bubbles will be much larger, that is why we don't use skimmers in fresh water tanks, they don't work because of this. Only the tiny bubbles that you actually cannot see are the ones that dissolve into the water, and yes I have had small bubbles too when I was trying to build one myself, but as you say, they rise to the top and do not dissolve into the water at all and just pop at the top. That is what I found also. The key is to get it to produce those real tiny ones, so tiny that you can actually not really see them ... and it should not be a stream either as when I look at my Oxydator in the dark with a flashlight angled to get the reflection of the bubbles so I can see them, they are not coming out in a stream but intermittently sometimes 1 or 2 and sometimes a little later a few more than that, and so on. There never seems to be a continuous stream. What I did notice though is that after feeding the tank more of them are being produced than a few hours later .. I guess it may adjust itself to what the quality of the water is but that is an assumption I am making. You may be able to make those tiny bubbles to happen but not sure how ... but then you have figured so many things out that you may figure that one out too. On the Oxydator itself they come out from the bottom, and I guess they have to go underneath that brown cover to do so ... not sure as obviously I cannot see that happen. Maybe we need a clear one rather than a brown one ... All I know is that one time I put that cover in the wrong way (upside down) and the result was to no bubbles came out of the Oxydator. Anyway let us know what you find out Paul ... And I still get little bubbles in that container I set up ... so there does not seem to be a loss of strength in the peroxide. I am just letting it run and we'll see what happens. Albert Quote Link to comment
Paul.b Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 OK another idea and I think only Albert may be able to answer it. What would happen if I injected this oxygen into the venturi of my skimmer "with" the ozone I am also injecting? I can easily figure out how to do this but amnot sure if it would do any good. It would also solve the "smoke" problem while still injecting the oxygen into the water. I love this experimenting, it gives purpose to my life. Another thing that brings purpose into my life are the muscles I am going to eat tonight. Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 OK problem solved, somewhat. What I did was to install the device outside the tank and I have an air hose entering the intake of a powerhead. This is so cool but I don't want it to run like this very long because the entire tank is now filled with very tiny oxygen bubbles that resemble smoke. I will let it go for a while just for an experiment but I don't like the look. If I had a sump, this would be the way to go because the bubbles are so tiny that they stay in solution for a very long time. About every 3 seconds, my powerhead pumps out a puff of "smoke". My ORP reading now is 439 which is higher than I have ever seen it and higher than I would like. If I reduced the size of the catalyst, it would produce much less oxygen which is what I may have to do. I may wake up tomorrow and everything including myself will have Pop Eye. Yes I agree, you are producing too much oxygen and a smaller catalyst will solve that one as you say but you still need to figure out a way I guess to get the bubbles to be so small that they are not visible and certainly do not make your tank look like a milk vessel :-) And if your ORP went up that much to 439 mv then yes the oxygen level did indeed increase a great deal but the water quality is also getting better as the oxygen oxidizes organic material. But what you have discovered is that the use of peroxide in that manner does improve the water's redox potential and its ability to deal with organic pollution. Have you seen any effect on your fish and corals (corals more so than fish as they do not seem to react to it other than breathing slower and looking better). Albert Quote Link to comment
Paul.b Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Hre is an audio visal video of the oxidator suppling oxygenated water to my tank. You can see the thin hose entering the grill below the powerhead Quote Link to comment
Paul.b Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 I don't think that video is working so make believe i looks like smoke coming out every 4 seconds. I don't notice any changes but my fish always look good already. I don't know what my ORP was before I installed this thing but it usually ran in the 300s. I don't want to run this all night like this so I will shut it off in about an hour (By removing the catalist) Then tomorrow I will check the ORP. Is this working, or is it me? http://s258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/urchsearch/?action=view¤t=MVI_2410.mp4'> Quote Link to comment
Paul.b Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Albert, I forgot, you asked me if any of the corals ate the peanut butter and one actually did. This giant mushroom actually swallowed it and now looks great. It always looks great after it eats so I don't know if it is due to the oxygen or the peanut butter. I was tempted to add some jelly because he seemed to enjoy it so much. I didn't try it on any other corals but to my amazement, the hermit crabs ignored it, and they are hermit crabs. Looking at the tank now, I can't swear to it but it seems like the organ pipe corals are really standing up and plumping up much more than usual. I don't notice anything else doing anything out of the ordinary. except my wife is doing the macarana This is the pipe organ. If you turn off your TV you can almost hear it play Ava Maria Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 OK another idea and I think only Albert may be able to answer it. What would happen if I injected this oxygen into the venturi of my skimmer "with" the ozone I am also injecting? I can easily figure out how to do this but amnot sure if it would do any good. It would also solve the "smoke" problem while still injecting the oxygen into the water. I love this experimenting, it gives purpose to my life. Another thing that brings purpose into my life are the muscles I am going to eat tonight. I would not do so although you can but ozone is such as strong oxidizer already that adding oxygen to it is like increasing the amount of oxygen that is produced from your ozonizer as the ozone breaks down into oxygen and free oxygen which then binds with other free oxygen so I don't really see how it will get you the results that we are trying to achieve. I think you need to try to find a way to get the unit to produce those fine bubbles and you may indeed have to put the device in the tank and let it generate real small bubbles like the ones that the Oxydator does. And since right now it seems to be producing too much oxygen but in large bubbles, you may need to reduce the size of your catalyst and see if that gets you those tiny bubbles. Injecting it into your skimmer would IMO be like adding a stronger ozonizer to the tank and would not have the same effect as the Oxydator does. You can try it out and see what happens but watch your ORP carefully to make sure it does not suddenly shoot up to far too high a level. I guess you need to think some more about how to make what you have more Oxydator like. Albert Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 I don't think that video is working so make believe i looks like smoke coming out every 4 seconds. I don't notice any changes but my fish always look good already. I don't know what my ORP was before I installed this thing but it usually ran in the 300s. I don't want to run this all night like this so I will shut it off in about an hour (By removing the catalist) Then tomorrow I will check the ORP. Is this working, or is it me? You are right the video is not working ... well you did not get the Oxydator result but the injection of the oxygen the way you did it via the power head greatly increased the dissolved oxygen level and obviously increased your ORP. You did find out though that more oxygen will improve your ORP, and after a while the water quality but not in the way that the Oxydator does, but the solution for you may be to run your ozone as you do and put the unit you built in the tank and let it do its thing but use less of the catalyst. Also it would be interesting to see then after it runs for a while whether it raises the ORP and your ozonizer shuts off because it has reached the ORP set on your controller. As the ORP increases from the unit you built the controller will sense the higher ORP and decide to shut your ozonizer off as whatever number you set it for will have been reached. I would not continue to run it the way you do as you say yourself but try putting the unit in the tank and see what happens when you do so. Albert Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Albert, I forgot, you asked me if any of the corals ate the peanut butter and one actually did. This giant mushroom actually swallowed it and now looks great. It always looks great after it eats so I don't know if it is due to the oxygen or the peanut butter. I was tempted to add some jelly because he seemed to enjoy it so much. I didn't try it on any other corals but to my amazement, the hermit crabs ignored it, and they are hermit crabs. Looking at the tank now, I can't swear to it but it seems like the organ pipe corals are really standing up and plumping up much more than usual. I don't notice anything else doing anything out of the ordinary. except my wife is doing the macarana This is the pipe organ. If you turn off your TV you can almost hear it play Ava Maria Looking great ... yes true it is difficult to know whether it is due to the peanut butter or the higher ORP, my guess is that it is the ORP that make it happen. Great looking and it is not "Ave Maria" that I hear but "Give me more, Give more More" ... I think that the short burst of additional oxygen was beneficial and if you can figure out how to get that unit to work the way it should and produce real small bubbles then I think you will see your corals look even better than they already looked. And on the peanut butter ... let me know whether any other coral eat it ... interesting ... and forget the jelly :-) but add some more Worms and Clam shavings :-). We'll sure a lot of messages about the Oxydator .... and I guess we did learn a few things indeed ... reverse engineering it is not as easy as it would seem ... at least that is the impression I get. But, knowing you it will be on your mind and you'll eventually figure something out to make it work ! Albert P.S. my peroxide in that little container is still producing bubbles ... Quote Link to comment
Paul.b Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Mine is still producing bubbles and I have no doubt will forever as long as there is hydrogen peroxide in there. I will connect it to my skimmer tomorrow Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 Mine is still producing bubbles and I have no doubt will forever as long as there is hydrogen peroxide in there. I will connect it to my skimmer tomorrow Sounds like a plan Paul and let's see what happens. Measure the ORP before and then let's see what happens to it and what the corals look like once you have it running for a while. My guess is the ORP will go up so IMO you need to watch it to make sure the ORP does not go too high too fast as the corals will react negatively to too rapid a change but if it is gradual there should not be a negative effect, on the contrary. I would still like that unit you built to start producing those real tiny bubbles ... so that it acts like the Oxydator does and so you do not have to inject its output into the skimmer or a power head. Albert Wow you now have 125 Likes .... Quote Link to comment
Paul.b Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 The first unit I built is producing those tiny bubbles in the small tank. I can put that in my reef but what do you think the advantage of that would be as opposed to injecting it into the skimmer? Doesn't the thing just produce oxygen or is it supposed to do something else? The skimmer is 5' tall and the reacttion time is a couple of minutes because I designed it to swirl quite a bit before it finally emerges into my algae trough. I do see what you are saying and I will also find a way of introducing it while by passing the skimmer. It should not be a problem. Now, thats a Man skimmer. Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 The first unit I built is producing those tiny bubbles in the small tank. I can put that in my reef but what do you think the advantage of that would be as opposed to injecting it into the skimmer? Doesn't the thing just produce oxygen or is it supposed to do something else? The skimmer is 5' tall and the reacttion time is a couple of minutes because I designed it to swirl quite a bit before it finally emerges into my algae trough. I do see what you are saying and I will also find a way of introducing it while by passing the skimmer. It should not be a problem. Now, thats a Man skimmer. That is some piece of skimmer indeed Paul and the fact that you make the water swirl in it is how the newer skimmers are now made to increase contact time with the bubbles, of course there is no comparison with yours since yours is so tall ... So on your question : Both are basically doing the same thing except that if you inject in the skimmer and then flow it over the algae scrubber you are greatly reducing its ORP because the algae will take up oxygen out of the water in addition to the nutrients you are trying to eliminate. Now if you set it in the tank then the oxygen gets directly in the tank's water and increases its oxygen level and ORP. You could do a test and that is measure the ORP of the water coming out of the skimmer and then measure the ORP of the water right before it flows back into the tank and I am sure you will find quite a difference. At the skimmer end it should be real high and on the other side it will have lost if I had to guess around 100/150 mv or so, but that is just a guess. Putting the "Paulydator" in the tank will gets oxygen in the tank's water and that raises the ORP in the tank and more oxidation of of organics will take place and the water quality will improve. The redox in your tank now is lower than what it will be when you have the device producing tiny bubbles that mix with the water in the tank ... Hope this makes sense. Albert Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Are you into Acans ? Here is some info on A. echinata Link : http://animal-world.com/Aquarium-Coral-Reefs/Acan-Echinata Albert Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 More on Acans : A. lordhowensis Link : http://animal-world.com/Aquarium-Coral-Reefs/Acan-Lord Albert Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Sponges : An article by Rob Toonen, Ph. D. © Advanced Aquarist Magazine Link: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2004/4/inverts Albert Quote Link to comment
Trogdor447 Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 So Albert a silly question. You say your book is about 500 pages give or take. How many pages of reading did it take you to get there? at least 20x? Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 So Albert a silly question. You say your book is about 500 pages give or take. How many pages of reading did it take you to get there? at least 20x? Not quite sure what the question is ... do you mean did I have to read 20 x 500 pages or 10 000 to get to 500 pages for the book ? BTW as the format was changed to a larger size, it is not 500 anymore but more like 430 or so. Albert Quote Link to comment
Trogdor447 Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Yea about how many pages of reading do you think you are at like 10000, 50k pages etc. Well dont you have to be a downer killing my 500 page reading goal! - Not really I am looking at 3x 500 page books for this semester yuck! Quote Link to comment
albertthiel Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Yea about how many pages of reading do you think you are at like 10000, 50k pages etc. Well dont you have to be a downer killing my 500 page reading goal! - Not really I am looking at 3x 500 page books for this semester yuck! Honestly I do not have any idea how much of what I wrote I had to verify or double check and how many pages that would amount to. Sometimes double checking something only requires reading a few paragraphs and sometimes maybe one or two pages so it is hard to put a number on it as I did not keep track of that ... Enjoy reading your 3 books, I hope they are on interesting topics Albert Quote Link to comment
Hexadron Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Albert, I am starting a tank soon and would like to keep pests out. I will have simply Base Rock (BRS Eco Rocks) and CaribSea Arag-Alive "Live Sand" I realize the "Live Sand" just has some bacteria added to help with the cycle etc.. So my question is: Will having essentially "Dead" rock and barely "Live Sand" create the needed biological filtration needed for a healthy tank? Most people say "Get some sand from an established tank" but honestly would like to minimize risk of introducing pets etc.. Time isn't an issue, so if the time to establish the needed biological filtration is going to take 2+ months or however long, doesn't matter to me. I am taking it slow, and doing it right once. Quote Link to comment
Trogdor447 Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 the tank will cycle on its own. Everyone has personal preferences. Adding established media to your tank can but will not always speed up the cycle process. But at this point you expose yourself to potential pests Quote Link to comment
Hexadron Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 the tank will cycle on its own. Everyone has personal preferences. Adding established media to your tank can but will not always speed up the cycle process. But at this point you expose yourself to potential pests For me time is no issue. I won't even be adding corals or livestock for months anyways, and prefer to have a more mature tank before doing so. Thanks for the reply. Quote Link to comment
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