THE OFFICIAL ASK ALBERT THIEL THREAD

[albertthiel]

:-) Dilution

 

Did that help ... ?

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

Oh man, not only are you informative but you are hilarious!

 

I have not been so lucky to have encountered this fire coral here in FL so I have no need to want to put urchin spines in my eyes, but the hubby did almost get a bunch of spines in his feet while he was in the Bahamas for work. He went out for a swim and the reef was right off the beach, well needless to say, the reef there was dead, and since there was algae, the urchins were everywhere! LMAO he came back with a few scrapes!

 

We have to go hang with those cubbin urchins they are a blast I bet!

 

Well in Atlanta I do not have to worry about firecoral and stepping on Urchins .. but urchins for the tank are great indeed as long as one finds small ones that do not overtake the tank and start moving all the rocks around .. :-)

 

I do however always get stung when I have to move a ricordea or a mushroom, them and froggies are the only ones I am sensitive to.... Weird the mushies sting me....

 

That is odd indeed ... I have not been stung by anything in the tank .. guess I must have elephant skin thanks to my age :-) Guess you may want to wear gloves from now on ... I touched Yumas and other corals but have not been stung ... not even by a Bubble Coral like one of our Members :-)

 

I am so glad their alive!

 

Yes glad they are alive for you too .. and on the sea star hopefully that one will do OK too ...

 

Oh I talked to a computer person, basicaly what they are doing is like with your car, they build them to only last "so long" then you have to replace them, the theory is they don't make $$$ off the service, they make it off the equipment, and if they make them so you have to replace them about once every year or so that's how they recoup their cost.

 

They only make laptops to last a year or 2 unless your not using it for anything but the basics, I literally had a computer sales person tell me and A that they make them that way on purpose so people HAVE to replace them.

 

I think it's all BS if I pay $$$ for something it should last longer then a year!

 

Yes it is odd indeed that things fail right after the warrantee expires right ... OTOH I don't think that they build a failure factor in their computers ... that would lead to massive lawsuits if that were true ... so I guess that was just one of the myths ..

 

Albert

[Paul.b]

Some thoughts on fish health

Keeping fish healthy is a very simple thing, fish want to get and stay healthy even though they are rarely in that condidion when you get them. Of course we know why that is with the stress of collection, shipping and then being placed in a tiny, bare tank with other, un familiar creatures in artificial sea water with artificial lighting that abruptly comes on and goes off then being fed an assortment of un familiar foods that don't wriggle or try to get away. It's a miracle anything lives. Unfortunately, many don't. But, luckily for us, it is easy to get and keep fish in "almost" the same condition they were in in the sea. How do we know if our fish are in great condition? That is also easy. If they die, that is a no brainer, if they get sick, any type of sickness, that is also un acceptable as fish in the sea rarely get sick. There is a reason for that and that reason is food. Yes water chemistry is a factor but it is more of a factor for corals than fish. Fish don't really care if their salinity is a few points higher or lower than what the "experts" tell us it should be. They don't notice if the nitrates are zero or 40. They may like it better at zero but my 19 year old fish have never complained. They also did not complain when I was away and the "babysitter" let the water level go down by 7" making the salinity off the scale. The fish also didn't text me when the temperature went into the 90s or from the Hurricane Sandy, into the 60s.
No, I don't advocate letting these things happen, I also don't want hair growing out of my ears or gaining a few pounds, I don't like when my taxes go up or when I get a flat tire, but you know what? These things happen so get over it.
"But" if the fish are in great shape, they will forgive us and we can try to remedy the situation and try to change things so it doesn't happen again.
Getting fish in great shape should be a goal of everyone in this hobby that keeps a tank for enjoyment. Tanks in malls, stores or Paris Hiltons house are there for entertainment of people who like to see the brilliant colors but usually don't know a healthy fish from a plate of halibut steaks.
(I had that for dinner last night and it popped in my head)
Fish are simpler than us, (well, most of us) they don't worry about what to wear, or what other fish think about them because fish only think about three things. Eating, being eaten and spawning. (I myself also only think about 2 of those things, I won't say which two)
Being eaten is easy to prevent in a fish tank, don't add something that will eat them. So no Great white Sharks, or polar bears. Spawning is something that fish "always" do, not just some times, not just on holidays or birthdays, but always.
That is why there are so many fish. Are they spawning in your tank? Why not? Well, usually it is because they have no mate but even if there is no mate, many fish, especially bottom dwellers or fish in the damsel family don't seem to realize that there is no mate in there for them and if they are a male, they should be looking for a mate and cleaning a nest site.
Fish in spawning condition also do not get sick. "Almost" never, they also "almost" always live a very long time. Many of the fish we commonly keep should live 15, 20 or more years. There are no fish with a lifespan that is only a couple of years. Seahorses and pipefish have the shortest lifespan but even them should live 4 or 5 years.
Clownfish will live over 20 years as many people keep them that long and if one can live to that age, they all can.
Why don't they? Because they are not in breeding condition. That is the main reason.
Keeping the fish in clean water, feeding them a variety of food and watching what they like on TV will not get them in breeding condition. Sometimes it will but to get fish in that condition and keep them there all comes down to food.
Yes they will live on flakes, pellets, shrimp tails and a few other things but most fish were not designed to eat that type of diet. If you want to keep your fish in breeding condition, disease free and have them live forever you need to do a little extra work. First there is that TV thing, but then you have to know what "your" fish are supposed to eat. Not my fish, not Miss Hiltons fish, but your fish. Most fish in the sea do not live on flakes so you can do without them. I feed flakes to my worms.
There is nothing wrong with flakes for keeping fish alive but flakes are dried and usually heated.
If you think that is a good diet, eat them for a month and see if anyone wants to spawn with you.
Fish in the sea eat other fish, other whole fish. They do not eat shrimp and spit out the head and guts, they do not eat a fish and spit out the guts and bones. Guess why?
Bones are made of calcium and fish need calcium just as we do. I eat fish almost every day but I don't eat the bones and guts, but I am not a fish. Fish need "mostly" the guts and bones along with the eyes, tails, scales, eyelashes etc. They are also getting the benefit of what was that fishes last meal.
As I said fish don't worry about the things we worry about because we are not fish.
When a fish eats another fish it is getting (I am making up this number) 40% of it's meal as calcium, 20% fish oil and the rest is an assortment of minerals that the prey fish is made out of which happen to be "exactly" what the fish in our tank are made out of. What a concept, a food that is composed of exactly what our fish are made out of.
Shrimp tails, squid tentacles, fish fillets and Alpo dog food are just made out of muscle tissue, lacking most of what fish need.
So if we can feed fish exactly what they are made from, they have no choice but to be in the best condition they can be.
Of course if we keep them in saw dust instead of sea water, it will not matter what we feed them and they "may" not spawn.
Feeding whole fish is very hard because they are not available commercially. I have spoken to fish food distributers about this but they don't seem to care. The closest we have is frozen mysis. Mysis are a complete food but they have a problem. a large part of them is un digestable shell and that shell is not calcium so much of that food is wasted.

Putting whole fish in a blender is just disguesting and mush of the oils are lost. (Saturday Night Live used to do a Skit with the "Fish O Matic" where they did this.
A great food is clams because we are feeding the entire animal, guts and all. A better food is live blackworms. If you feed your fish live worms a couple of times a day, and you don't keep your fish in saw dust, I can almost guarantee they will get in spawning condition (all other factors correct) Live worms are a whole food with blood, guts and all.
(I think that was a John Wayne movie) Fish eggs are another really good food as they also contain everything a fish is made out of but they also contain chemicals that will make your skimmer go nuts so they have to be rinsed very well.
For small fish like mandarins and pipefish, new born brine shrimp are excellent because most of them when they are just born are mostly oil from their yock sack. After a few hours they lose much of their nutrition so you have to hatch them yourself. I do and also fed live worms every day. My mandarins spawn every few weeks as do my 19 year old fireclowns blue striped pipefish. I don't have to quarantine and have no use for a hospital tank, but if you don't have my tank, you may want to keep your quaranting procedures and hospital tank.
In the unlikely event that you disagree with this post, start your own thread called, "PaulB doesn't know a clam from Paris Hilton's dog and he should stick to breeding guppies in his bathtub"

[albertthiel]

Firecorals have that name for a reason as you can imagine and depending on how much of your skin is exposed to a firecoral that determines how many tuxedo urchin spines you want to stick in your eye to take your mind off the pain. I once brushed a large part of my belly (and I have some large parts of my belly) on one and screaming underwater is not easy but it has the same effect. The pain starts to ebb in an hour or so but doesn't completely go away for a day or so. I am not sure how the fire coral feels but I have gotten stung more times than I would like to remember. That is easy to happen if you are snorkling in shallow water and you try to swim over a firecoral head. Remember, underwater distances and sizes are 30% different so it may look like you have plenty of room, but you don't

 

For those of you interested in FireCoral here is a good article ...

 

Firecoral is not endangered but an interesting remark make by a diver to me in a personal comm. is that it is sometimes mistaken for a form of Seaweed and divers may not be careful enough in avoiding it ..

 

Link to the Article : http://jrscience.wcp.muohio.edu/FieldCourses00/PapersMarineEcologyArticles/Milleporina.TheFireCoralD.html

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

Response to Paul's Post on Fish Health and the Food they Need ....................

 

Great overview Paul of what fish need and why they are in good health when they are given that kind of food, with as usual a little humor here and there as you like to do and what makes reading your post that much more interesting.

 

"And no you do not need to start breeding guppies in your bathtub" + your wife may not like that too much ... They nibble on you as you well know ... and she may be ticklish :-)

 

On the Clams I am going to start feeding clam scrapings today ...

 

I have been feeding Shrimp, not the ones they sell at the LFS, but the ones you buy for human consumption ( I posted a picture of parts of one a few days ago and posted pics of the Little Necks yesterday ).

 

So after I finish up a few things it will be feeing time.

 

And on the DSL modem ... there is a computer store a few miles from where I was at Mc. D. and I got one there, and configured it and I guess all is well since I am able to access the Net and post messages.

 

Now ... I keep wondering about that dog you refer to ... does she have that special a one if she actually has one ? I never seen her carry one, not that I have seen Paris Hilton on TV for quite some time, and am certainly not going to search the Net for pics of it ... it could be a Pitbulll or a Mongrel for all I know .. or maybe a Pooddle or a little a little Yorkshire Terrier for that matter.

 

Thanks for the detailed overview of the food issue ... and the need for the "real" stuff ... and a little more fish oil added to any food if I remember correctly.

 

Al "theBook" bert

 

I guess everyone had a chance to read the update on the book and how to pre-order and what the retail price will be etc ... so go ahead and get it at the real low price + all the goodies that come with it for that price

[Paul.b]

I have been feeding Shrimp, not the ones they sell at the LFS, but the ones you buy for human consumption ( I posted a picture of parts of one a few days ago and posted pics of the Little Necks yesterday ).

 

Albert, eat those shrimp yourself or send them to me. Cocktail shrimp are just muscle. They are OK but no guts in there. Thats why we like to eat them.

Clams are much better but not as easy to get where you live.

Paris Hilton has a little, silly looking dog that she carries in her bag. I have not seen anything about her lately either. Maybe she is spending her time setting up a reef tank.

[rick12]

Paris Hilton has a little, silly looking dog that she carries in her bag. I have not seen anything about her lately either. Maybe she is spending her time setting up a reef tank.

Don't let her feed that little dog to the gobies! "YIKES!

[albertthiel]

 

I have been feeding Shrimp, not the ones they sell at the LFS, but the ones you buy for human consumption ( I posted a picture of parts of one a few days ago and posted pics of the Little Necks yesterday ).

 

Albert, eat those shrimp yourself or send them to me. Cocktail shrimp are just muscle. They are OK but no guts in there. Thats why we like to eat them.

 

Clams are much better but not as easy to get where you live.

 

Paris Hilton has a little, silly looking dog that she carries in her bag. I have not seen anything about her lately either. Maybe she is spending her time setting up a reef tank.

 

When I cut them open Paul I can see all the guts in them though ... so I guess there must be more than muscle but I am sure that based on what you say that Clams are better ... I have those Little Necks ... are you OK with those or do I need to even larger ones?

 

BTW as I noted yesterday I took my Oxydator out of the tank to see how the corals would react ... well I can say now that they do NOT like if for sure !

 

I will post some pictures I took to show what they look like without the Oxydator in the Nano, and I will be putting it back in this afternoon.

 

Even the Yumas do NOT like it at all ...

 

Albert

[Julian_blnc]

AH, ALBERT,

After the lights kicked on this morning, i unfortanely found living hydroids.

90% of the tanks hyorids are dead but a little colony smack dab in the middle of the tank are alive, had to break out the big lens to photograph but heres the photos,

Live colony

 

Vs dead Colony

 

Can you recommend a plan of attack now that they are confirmed alive?

Thanks Albert

Julian

[albertthiel]

Don't let her feed that little dog to the gobies! "YIKES! Paris Hilton's Dog

 

No ... we don't want that ... and I believe that she has "17" dogs and even set up some foundation to help or rescue dogs or something to that effect ... Not sure which ones .. but I am sure that if one is interested it can be found on the Net

 

Albert

[Paul.b]

When I cut them open Paul I can see all the guts in them though ... so I guess there must be more than muscle but I am sure that based on what you say that Clams are better ... I have those Little Necks ... are you OK with those or do I need to even larger ones?

 

 

 

 

Albert

When you cut them open you see the intestine full of poop. In the US they don't sell whole shrimp because they are always frozen, even fresh shrimp where you live are frozen. They clean them by removing the guts and head before they freeze them to allow them to keep longer.

 

Unless you are buying them with their heads on like you can get them in the gulf and some parts of Florida.

No head=no guts because they are not selling them for fish food. A shrimp, as you know is a swimming animal and thus, mostly muscle.

A clam is a lazy lump that sits around sucking in seawater so it has no need for muscles except adductor muscles that close the shell so it is mostly guts and good for fish food and linguini. When we buy a scallop, we are buying only the adductor muscle and no guts at all. So they are also not a great food.

[albertthiel]

AH, ALBERT,

After the lights kicked on this morning, i unfortanely found living hydroids.

90% of the tanks hyorids are dead but a little colony smack dab in the middle of the tank are alive, had to break out the big lens to photograph but heres the photos,

Live colony

Vs dead Colony

Can you recommend a plan of attack now that they are confirmed alive?

Thanks Albert

Julian

 

Live ones are hard to get rid of and hobbyists have tried a large number of methods, and some report success with them and others not. So here are a few things you can try ... that is if you cannot remove the rock because if you can then just boil the rock and then clean it as best as you can with a stiff brush. If you cannot remove the rock then:

 

- use a syringe and squirt boiling water on them, may have to be repeated a few times but seems to work as long as you do it enough times and remove the dead ones by siphoning them out

- spray them with a little hydrogen peroxide, again may have to be done a few times. Use only a little of it at a time but repeat about every 2 hours. Inject right into them not a little away from them

- use tweezers to pull them out but don't break them up (this is IMO not a good method as they do break up and just come back elsewhere

- use small amounts of muriatic acid and squirt that into them and repeat if necessary

But best of all IMO is to use a device called the Majano Wand that is used to kill Majano's and Aiptasia and kill them one by one by using the device. You can find info on it at majanowand.com - and the nice thing about that is that you can use it over and over again if you see any come back, or if you get Aiptasia, or Majanos

 

I have used it myself and it "works".

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

When you cut them open you see the intestine full of poop. In the US they don't sell whole shrimp because they are always frozen, even fresh shrimp where you live are frozen. They clean them by removing the guts and head before they freeze them to allow them to keep longer.

 

Unless you are buying them with their heads on like you can get them in the gulf and some parts of Florida.

No head=no guts because they are not selling them for fish food. A shrimp, as you know is a swimming animal and thus, mostly muscle.

A clam is a lazy lump that sits around sucking in seawater so it has no need for muscles except adductor muscles that close the shell so it is mostly guts and good for fish food and linguini. When we buy a scallop, we are buying only the adductor muscle and no guts at all. So they are also not a great food.

 

I got you on the shrimp ... meaning I understand what you are saying ... so what about the live clams one can buy live the Little Rock ones ... do they have everything in it that you say they should have ?

 

Albert

[jedimasterben]

When you cut them open you see the intestine full of poop. In the US they don't sell whole shrimp because they are always frozen, even fresh shrimp where you live are frozen. They clean them by removing the guts and head before they freeze them to allow them to keep longer.

 

Unless you are buying them with their heads on like you can get them in the gulf and some parts of Florida.

No head=no guts because they are not selling them for fish food. A shrimp, as you know is a swimming animal and thus, mostly muscle.

A clam is a lazy lump that sits around sucking in seawater so it has no need for muscles except adductor muscles that close the shell so it is mostly guts and good for fish food and linguini. When we buy a scallop, we are buying only the adductor muscle and no guts at all. So they are also not a great food.

I actually just collected half a dozen peneus shrimpies last night. they went right into my DT along with a stupid amount of nerite snails. When I finally start making my own food, I will get some more and use them live and whole in the mix.

[albertthiel]

So here is what the corals look like after having taken out the Oxydator about 36 hours ago or so

 

Not looking too happy I say ....

 

I will be putting the Oxydator back into the tank:

 

 

 

 

Not expanded nearly as much as they normally are

 

 

Looking darker and not as expanded

 

Close-up of the other view that you can see in the first picture

 

These were taken late yesterday and IMO they look even less happy today

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

I actually just collected half a dozen peneus shrimpies last night. they went right into my DT along with a stupid amount of nerite snails. When I finally start making my own food, I will get some more and use them live and whole in the mix.

 

Do you mean these :

 

http://www.wildsingapore.com/wildfacts/crustacea/othercrust/shrimp/bluetail.htm

 

Albert

[slickwill613]

In the unlikely event that you disagree with this post, start your own thread called, "PaulB doesn't know a dog from Paris Hilton's clam and he should stick to breeding guppies in his bathtub"

 

You always have some of the most entertaining posts Paul, but the long one should've ended the way I misquoted it.

 

 

Albert, how about this weather we're having? Cross your fingers for some heavy N. GA snow so I can play hookie from work.

[albertthiel]

You always have some of the most entertaining posts Paul, but the long one should've ended the way I misquoted it.

 

 

Albert, how about this weather we're having? Cross your fingers for some heavy N. GA snow so I can play hookie from work.

 

Paul always has some real good info to share and always manages to add some fun and humor to it which makes them that more interesting to read.

 

And on the weather .. not sure what is going on but here in Alpharetta it is now 39º and I don't think we are getting any snow here. Anything up in your area expected to fall ?

 

Albert

[Paul.b]

I got you on the shrimp ... meaning I understand what you are saying ... so what about the live clams one can buy live the Little Rock ones ... do they have everything in it that you say they should have ?

 

Albert

 

 

I got you on the shrimp ... meaning I understand what you are saying ... so what about the live clams one can buy live the Little Rock ones ... do they have everything in it that you say they should have ?

 

Albert

Any kind of live clam or mussel will work.

[atoll]

We got our first snow of the winter here a few hours ago but still only very light however its expected to get much worse tomorrow. I hope its not so bad as my avenue is on a gradient and it can be difficult for cars never mind vans to get up to where I live in the snow. I wouldn't mind but I have been waiting for this TV since the week before Christmas.

Paul always has some real good info to share and always manages to add some fun and humor to it which makes them that more interesting to read.

 

And on the weather .. not sure what is going on but here in Alpharetta it is now 39º and I don't think we are getting any snow here. Anything up in your area expected to fall ?

 

Albert

Thats really interesting Albert. I wouldn't have expected such a down turn in your corals in such a short time but I guess the redox dropped quite quickly when you removed the Oxydator. It will be very interesting to see what happens when you re install it and how your corals react hopefully very positively.

Les.

So here is what the corals look like after having taken out the Oxydator about 36 hours ago or so

 

Not looking too happy I say ....

 

I will be putting the Oxydator back into the tank:

 

 

 

 

Not expanded nearly as much as they normally are

 

 

Looking darker and not as expanded

 

Close-up of the other view that you can see in the first picture

 

These were taken late yesterday and IMO they look even less happy today

 

Albert

[slickwill613]

Paul always has some real good info to share and always manages to add some fun and humor to it which makes them that more interesting to read.

 

And on the weather .. not sure what is going on but here in Alpharetta it is now 39º and I don't think we are getting any snow here. Anything up in your area expected to fall ?

 

Albert

 

I'm in the "zone" for winter weather, just a stone's throw from the real mountains. I'm hoping for a three day weekend, but if I can make it to work I'll take the hours.

Google map "crane's store dawsonville" and I can walk to that place.

[albertthiel]

Any kind of live clam or mussel will work.

 

Thanks, that what I thought since when sold live they obviously still have all their innards and nothing has been removed.

 

BTW I love mussels but being from Belgium that is not unusual ... we eat them in any which way you can think of, even with Merlot added to the water with the vegetables when they are cooked ... or a little booze added to the small amount of water needed when they are being steamed .... and name it you will find it done (well within limits of course .. we would not put Paris Hilton's dog in the pot)

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

We got our first snow of the winter here a few hours ago but still only very light however its expected to get much worse tomorrow. I hope its not so bad as my avenue is on a gradient and it can be difficult for cars never mind vans to get up to where I live in the snow. I wouldn't mind but I have been waiting for this TV since the week before Christmas

 

Well hopefully whoever has to deliver it will have chains on their tires (tyres) ... did not realize your area was getting that much snow. Here in GA, the snow is mostly West and North of Atlanta although we may get a dusting here. However they expect black ice but since I do not have to drive anywhere tomorrow it will not affect me personally

 

Thats really interesting Albert. I wouldn't have expected such a down turn in your corals in such a short time but I guess the redox dropped quite quickly when you removed the Oxydator. It will be very interesting to see what happens when you re install it and how your corals react hopefully very positively.

Les.

 

Well even more interesting is that when I put the Oxydator back in and instead of 6% used 4% peroxide not only did it produces a few large bubbles but a very visible stream of very small bubbles and did so for about 5 or 6 minutes, without any negative effect on the corals and then the stream slowed down and now it is back to normal where it is actually hard to see whether any bubbles are coming out of it, but of ocurse we know that they do.

 

And ... the corals are already looking a lot better. I'll post a few pics in a little while ... so yes the negative reaction when removed is fast but the positive reaction when the Oxydator is placed back in the tank is very fast as well ... quite interesting indeed as I did not think that the positive effect would happen that fast.

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

Pictures taken less than 30 minutes after putting the Oxydator back in the tank

 

Really interesting how fast the corals are changing again for the positive and this is less than half an hour after putting the Oxydator back in the tank

 

 

 

 

 

[atoll]

That's great Albert,

Now we just need to work out the why's. That is why did the corals react negatively so quickly and why did they react positively so quickly when the Oxydator was replaced. Also just what caused each to happen so quickly as I would have expected a more slow decline and a more slow improvement in your corals. Sure water quality will be the answer but just what was the oxydator doing exactly to improve your water quality so drastically.

Was/is it the oxidation of undesirable compounds, the incesae in oxygen level in your tank or something else that triggered such speedy reactions. What I would also like to see is others results using Oxydators. You can measure your water quality with a redox meter of course but its just what is being oxidised like DOC for instance and if it is DOC what is it oxidising it into. It would e great if some laboratory work could be done to establish exactly what is happening when an Oxydator is introduced into the reef aquarium.

 

Les.

Well even more interesting is that when I put the Oxydator back in and instead of 6% used 4% peroxide not only did it produces a few large bubbles but a very visible stream of very small bubbles and did so for about 5 or 6 minutes, without any negative effect on the corals and then the stream slowed down and now it is back to normal where it is actually hard to see whether any bubbles are coming out of it, but of ocurse we know that they do.

 

And ... the corals are already looking a lot better. I'll post a few pics in a little while ... so yes the negative reaction when removed is fast but the positive reaction when the Oxydator is placed back in the tank is very fast as well ... quite interesting indeed as I did not think that the positive effect would happen that fast.

 

Albert