THE OFFICIAL ASK ALBERT THIEL THREAD

[atoll]

Keep up the good work Paul.

 

When I was experimenting with Oxydators many years ago I was lent a redox meter (few used them in those days in marine aquaria) This was a lab grade one and the probe was calibrated for me before it was given to me. I had the use of it over the weekend and as I remember I could easily achieve over 450mv. In fact I took it over 500mv if I recall but then things started to react negatively.

 

To get the MV so high I was using around 17% peroxide (it could have been even higher). I don't recommend anybody repeats my experiments but I just wanted to see how far I could push it before things took a turn for the worse. IME experiences the first animals to react negatively to too high a peroxide % are anemones and ric's. My anemone turned itself inside ( its guts came out of it oral cavity) out but thankfully recovered and was as good as every after. Ric's either folded up or shrunk at such high % of peroxide.

 

I was using 2 catalysts in each of 2 oxydator "A" in my 130gallon sumped system during this experiment. It was often thought an MV of around 450mv was best but I would suggest around 350mv would be a better ball park figure. I am sure Albert will correctly if wrong about desirable MV as it was suggested back in the late 80s early 90s.

 

Les.

After the lights came on the ORP in the tank is 272. That may be because the lights are now on over the algae trough.

The ORP reading at the beginning of the trough right where the ozonized water enters is 282.

I will try to see what the ORP reading is at the other end of the trough. I am not sure if the wire is long enough from the ORP probe.

The Oxidator is still bubbling oxygen into the powerhead but today I will install it into the intake of the skimmer.

The skimmer is almost 5' deep so the preasures at the bottom are more tham double the preasures in the tank. Any oxygen produced should be completely in solution and not even in bubble form any more.

 

[Coco66]

Hi Albert,

I am running a five gallon pico and I am pretty sure I have an Eunice worm in there. Aside from braking the rock apart to get him out do you have other suggestions? I was wondering about buying canned air ( the kind people use to blow dust of computer key boards) and blast his lair once I have the rock out of the water. My rocks are full of live and I would hate to kill anything else in my quest to kill this worm. Also read somewhere to flush him out with carbonated water. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[albertthiel]

That's great Albert and when I have the prices and info etc I will post them on here.

 

Thanks Les .... I will be interesting to see what they will be. Will you have an idea of the shipping costs as well ?

 

Albert

[atoll]

Yep as I think I said in my first post Adrian will send me all the prices together with the shipping cost (international) to both the USA and Canada. However these will be in pounds sterling not US dollars. The upside is he will take PayPal and you can easily convert UK pounds sterling into Canadian and US dollars or whatever currency anybody wishes.

 

Les.

Thanks Les .... I will be interesting to see what they will be. Will you have an idea of the shipping costs as well ?

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

Keep up the good work Paul.

 

When I was experimenting with Oxydators many years ago I was lent a redox meter (few used them in those days in marine aquaria) This was a lab grade one and the probe was calibrated for me before it was given to me. I had the use of it over the weekend and as I remember I could easily achieve over 450mv. In fact I took it over 500mv if I recall but then things started to react negatively.

 

To get the MV so high I was using around 17% peroxide (it could have been even higher). I don't recommend anybody repeats my experiments but I just wanted to see how far I could push it before things took a turn for the worse. IME experiences the first animals to react negatively to too high a peroxide % are anemones and ric's. My anemone turned itself inside ( its guts came out of it oral cavity) out but thankfully recovered and was as good as every after. Ric's either folded up or shrunk at such high % of peroxide.

 

I was using 2 catalysts in each of 2 oxydator "A" in my 130gallon sumped system during this experiment. It was often thought an MV of around 450mv was best but I would suggest around 350mv would be a better ball park figure. I am sure Albert will correctly if wrong about desirable MV as it was suggested back in the late 80s early 90s.

 

Les.

 

Well 17% or around that concentration would indeed be very high, as I guess you found out, and raised your ORP too high indeed and probably too rapidly.

 

Yes, many years ago the recommendation was 400 to 450 mv, with 450 behind the high end, and currently the recommendation and suggestion seem to have gone down indeed to 350 to 400 mv.

 

I would use those numbers as guidelines as the higher numbers were really recommended at the time that few hobbyists kept delicate corals, but kept mostly fish who do not seem to be affected as much with high ORP levels, even the 500 mv you mention, but corals and other cnidarians do, and yes anemones and other life forms react more quickly when the ORP goes up higher than 350 to 375 mv.

 

Zoas tend IME to react quickly to the higher levels as well, and oddly enough Palys do not seem to react the same way, at least not in my Nano.

 

However after the level has been running at a higher # for a while to Zoas reopen and look their normal self again.

 

Of course the fast change in the level may have a good deal to do with the reactions that are observed. Changing it to a higher level in a slower manner does not appear to affect anything the way a rapid change does (but then that is not unique to ORP or oxygen saturation or over-saturation, anything in the water chemistry that gets changed too quickly affects corals and they react negatively to such changes).

 

I trust you are not using 17% peroxide anymore and stick to either 6 or 9% and maintain a lower ORP in line with the numbers suggested above (350 to 375).

 

Thanks for the info though on what you experimented with and how it affected the life forms and which ones more so than others.

 

Currently I am running 4% with 1 catalyst and the corals all look great and based on looking at the peroxide level in the unit and how it is going down, I figure that 1 filling will last about a week or may a day less.

 

I'll post some pictures later after the lights have been on for a while. I took some yesterday late in the day and will post those as well.

 

So, what is your ORP running at now in the AM and what is it after the lights have been on for a few hours if I may ask ?

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

Hi Albert, I am running a five gallon pico and I am pretty sure I have an Eunice worm in there. Aside from braking the rock apart to get him out do you have other suggestions? I was wondering about buying canned air ( the kind people use to blow dust of computer key boards) and blast his lair once I have the rock out of the water. My rocks are full of live and I would hate to kill anything else in my quest to kill this worm. Also read somewhere to flush him out with carbonated water. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

You could try putting some epoxy over the hole he is in and seal it up and kill it off that way, or yet the carbonated water approach would make him come out of the crevice allowing you to catch him (but you obviously have to do so in a separate container). If the rock is out o the water blasting the hole with that compressed air may work but that is so cold that you may freeze him in place and not get him to come out so you may have to use a little at a time and try to get the worm to come out so you can remove it (make sure you get all of it or it will more than likely regrow from what is left of it that is still in the rock). You can also try a worm trap in the aquarium and see if you can get he worm to go in it .. use a piece of shrimp or clam or some similar meaty food).

 

So you have different methods that IMO will all work but again make sure you get the entire worm.

 

Albert

[atoll]

Hi Albert,

Noooo I dare not use 17% and have found with my current set up with the Oxydator "A" 9% peroxide and 2 catalysts (as supplied with it) to be ideal. I do not own a redox meter anymore but my eyes even though I wear specs tell me all I need to know with regards to the use of the Oxydator and the % of peroxide to use. I know I am in safe limits using that concentration and number of catalysts I do. Remember I am running 60 gallons with quite a high stocking level of corals and fish along with my regular feeding regime, (I tend to feed 3 or 4 times a day).

 

We have already discussed the recommendations for starting off and running Oxydators so I won't go over old ground here. Also i don't want to give people any idea the use of Oxydatorts in anyway may be detrimental or that they in some way pose a risk when they do not nor are the in anyway difficult to use as quite clearly the opposite is the truth.

 

Les.

Even squiring a little weak peroxide into his hole should either bring him out or kill him. However i guess you would rather he came out than kill him in the rock.

You could try putting some epoxy over the hole he is in and seal it up and kill it off that way, or yet the carbonated water approach would make him come out of the crevice allowing you to catch him (but you obviously have to do so in a separate container). If the rock is out o the water blasting the hole with that compressed air may work but that is so cold that you may freeze him in place and not get him to come out so you may have to use a little at a time and try to get the worm to come out so you can remove it (make sure you get all of it or it will more than likely regrow from what is left of it that is still in the rock). You can also try a worm trap in the aquarium and see if you can get he worm to go in it .. use a piece of shrimp or clam or some similar meaty food).

 

So you have different methods that IMO will all work but again make sure you get the entire worm.

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

Yep as I think I said in my first post Adrian will send me all the prices together with the shipping cost (international) to both the USA and Canada. However these will be in pounds sterling not US dollars. The upside is he will take PayPal and you can easily convert UK pounds sterling into Canadian and US dollars or whatever currency anybody wishes.

 

Les.

 

Thanks and yes the conversion should not be that complicated but may be a little different from day to day depending on how the US dollar versus the Pound Sterling goes up or down ... no Euro prices anymore in the UK I guess ?

 

Albert

[rick12]

Yep as I think I said in my first post Adrian will send me all the prices together with the shipping cost (international) to both the USA and Canada. However these will be in pounds sterling not US dollars. The upside is he will take PayPal and you can easily convert UK pounds sterling into Canadian and US dollars or whatever currency anybody wishes.

 

Les.

And in addition to the shipping fees, UPS has their own additional brokerage fee (at least for Canada) on top of the shipping. I had to pay an additional $24 CN at the door to the delivery guy for their work in bringing my package through customs.

R.

[atoll]

The UK is not in the Euro as you know (I think). I am not sure if that is a good or bad thing put I will go with good. regarding different currency's Euro US or Canadian dollars that should not be a problem using Paypal as they can convert it to any currency you wish as far as I am aware.

 

Thanks and yes the conversion should not be that complicated but may be a little different from day to day depending on how the US dollar versus the Pound Sterling goes up or down ... no Euro prices anymore in the UK I guess ?

 

Albert

Now that is a bummer (is that a Brit saying/) We don't have to pay such unless there is customs charges to pay. The PO add around £7 to collect any tax charges.

And in addition to the shipping fees, UPS has their own additional brokerage fee (at least for Canada) on top of the shipping. I had to pay an additional $24 CN at the door to the delivery guy for their work in bringing my package through customs. R.

[rick12]

The UK is not in the Euro as you know (I think). I am not sure if that is a good or bad thing put I will go with good. regarding different currency's Euro US or Canadian dollars that should not be a problem using Paypal as they can convert it to any currency you wish as far as I am aware.

 

Now that is a bummer (is that a Brit saying/) We don't have to pay such unless there is customs charges to pay. The PO add around £7 to collect any tax charges.

Bummer...it's universal :-) but it may show your age.

Perhaps another shipping method/company would be less costly?

My oxydators arrived in three days, I was happy; however, now poor. JK

Rick

[albertthiel]

Hi Albert,

Noooo I dare not use 17% and have found with my current set up with the Oxydator "A" 9% peroxide and 2 catalysts (as supplied with it) to be ideal. I do not own a redox meter anymore but my eyes even though I wear specs tell me all I need to know with regards to the use of the Oxydator and the % of peroxide to use. I know I am in safe limits using that concentration and number of catalysts I do. Remember I am running 60 gallons with quite a high stocking level of corals and fish along with my regular feeding regime, (I tend to feed 3 or 4 times a day).

 

We have already discussed the recommendations for starting off and running Oxydators so I won't go over old ground here. Also i don't want to give people any idea the use of Oxydatorts in anyway may be detrimental or that they in some way pose a risk when they do not nor are the in anyway difficult to use as quite clearly the opposite is the truth.

 

Les.

 

Even squiring a little weak peroxide into his hole should either bring him out or kill him. However i guess you would rather he came out than kill him in the rock.

 

Yes I am sure you would not use that strength anymore ... as that is indeed very high. And yes by now I agree that you can tell just by looking at the tank whether what you are using is the right % or not ... it's a bit like testing, after a while we can "see" what is going on and don't need to test all the time to know what to do. I guess that comes with time :-)

 

 

And I agree we don't want to make it sound more complicated than it is as it is not. Fill the unit with peroxide in the manner needed based on the model and place it in the aquarium and that is it really, nothing more to it. Simple as it can be.

 

Albert

[danimal1211]

I had to pay a 2.5% currency fee for the exchange (paypal). Hopefully the UPS guy won't have additional shipping charges but ill let everyone know if they do.

[albertthiel]

And in addition to the shipping fees, UPS has their own additional brokerage fee (at least for Canada) on top of the shipping. I had to pay an additional $24 CN at the door to the delivery guy for their work in bringing my package through customs. R.

 

Wow Canadian Customs sure add a good chunk to the cost of them that's for sure ... what % was that ? Seems high but then I don't know what the import duties on aquarium products in Canada are

 

Albert

[rick12]

 

Wow Canadian Customs sure add a good chunk to the cost of them that's for sure ... what % was that ? Seems high but then I don't know what the import duties on aquarium products in Canada are

 

Albert

actually, it's not customs it is UPS fee for handling the package through the customs process

[albertthiel]

I had to pay a 2.5% currency fee for the exchange (paypal). Hopefully the UPS guy won't have additional shipping charges but ill let everyone know if they do.

 

Yes that is normal, I was charged the same fee for Hobbyists from Canada who have bought my book and paid in Canadian dollars, but that is not much considering the simplicity of it all in terms of a payment method. At least I think so.

 

Albert

[atoll]

_{Adrian is also selling Oxydators etc on the UK eBay here.}

_{http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_nkw=oxydator&clk_rvr_id=441662969834&adpos=1t2&MT_ID=12&crlp=21676002073_2113181&geo_id=32251&keyword=oxydator&crdt=0}

[albertthiel]

actually, it's not customs it is UPS fee for handling the package through the customs process

 

So no duty to import, just a handling fee ... that is good to know .. I thought that customs would have charged a certain percentage as well.

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

_{Adrian is also selling Oxydators etc on the UK eBay here.}

_{http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_nkw=oxydator&clk_rvr_id=441662969834&adpos=1t2&MT_ID=12&crlp=21676002073_2113181&geo_id=32251&keyword=oxydator&crdt=0}

 

Thanks ... good link indeed ...

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

Sunset on the Reef Video

 

A must see ...

 

Link : http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/sunrise-on-the-reef-2-video

 

Albert

[Coco66]

You could try putting some epoxy over the hole he is in and seal it up and kill it off that way, or yet the carbonated water approach would make him come out of the crevice allowing you to catch him (but you obviously have to do so in a separate container). If the rock is out o the water blasting the hole with that compressed air may work but that is so cold that you may freeze him in place and not get him to come out so you may have to use a little at a time and try to get the worm to come out so you can remove it (make sure you get all of it or it will more than likely regrow from what is left of it that is still in the rock). You can also try a worm trap in the aquarium and see if you can get he worm to go in it .. use a piece of shrimp or clam or some similar meaty food).

 

Thanks for your reply, I bit the bullet and smashed the rock. Worm was 15" long. Just got done putting the tank back together with lots of epoxy and superglue. It's amazing that something that big was living in a rock in my tiny pico. Glad I got it out and hoping that it was the only one.

Thanks again,

Corina.

 

[albertthiel]

A 5 Gallon Pico Reef by Nanoreefwannabe ...

 

A great looking Pico, with a sump, and the tank is round !

 

Link : http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/nanoreefwannabes-5-gallon-pico-reef-proves-good-things-come-in-small-packages

 

Albert

[Trogdor447]

Sunset on the Reef Video

 

A must see ...

 

Link : http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/sunrise-on-the-reef-2-video

 

Albert

This is absolutely awesome! I cannot wait until my algae is gone enough for me to take one of these videos including my sunrise/sunset controller would be sweet

[albertthiel]

 

 

You could try putting some epoxy over the hole he is in and seal it up and kill it off that way, or yet the carbonated water approach would make him come out of the crevice allowing you to catch him (but you obviously have to do so in a separate container). If the rock is out o the water blasting the hole with that compressed air may work but that is so cold that you may freeze him in place and not get him to come out so you may have to use a little at a time and try to get the worm to come out so you can remove it (make sure you get all of it or it will more than likely regrow from what is left of it that is still in the rock). You can also try a worm trap in the aquarium and see if you can get he worm to go in it .. use a piece of shrimp or clam or some similar meaty food).

Thanks for your reply, I bit the bullet and smashed the rock. Worm was 15" long. Just got done putting the tank back together with lots of epoxy and superglue. It's amazing that something that big was living in a rock in my tiny pico. Glad I got it out and hoping that it was the only one.

Thanks again,

Corina.

 

That is amazing indeed .. 15 inches that is most unusual indeed for a small tank. I suspect it was a bristleworm though and not a Eunice but not having seen a picture of it I cannot be sure.

 

Eunice ones would come out at night and capture whatever they can including fish and devour other life forms in the tank so not sure it that happened but if it did then yes it could have been a Bobbit worm.

 

Any pictures?

 

Glad you got it out and got the tank back together ... good for you and yes I hope there are no other ones although keeping an eye on what goes on at night in the tank will tell you.

 

Thanks for the update.

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

This is absolutely awesome! I cannot wait until my algae is gone enough for me to take one of these videos including my sunrise/sunset controller would be sweet

 

Glad you enjoyed it and yes it is quite a video indeed. Taking such a video of your own tank and posting it would be super ... hopefully you can make one soon

 

Albert