THE OFFICIAL ASK ALBERT THIEL THREAD

[albertthiel]

Hello Albert,

Have you come across Green Boring Algae on SPS, like so

 

http://aquariumcoraldiseases.weebly.com/gr...ring-algae.html ?

 

I have yet to find information on it, and your experience would be invaluable.

 

Thanks!

 

I have not personally come across it, and the link you gave indicates that apparently this Boring Green Algae has not been described, and that no cause for its appearance has been determined.

 

The article does mention other ones and suggests the use of red slime removers butI am not sure that they refer to using it for the Green Boring Algae as well.

 

I will do some more research and see what I can come up with ... and when I do I will post if for sure here on this thread.

 

You may wish to look at this link but I do not believe that is the one you are referring to :

http://www.springerlink.com/content/hj0w02704j263262/

 

Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

 

Albert

Edited October 28, 2012 by albertthiel

[Kfmmartin19]

This is on my other thread too, but thought I would post here for the people on your thread to see if they are following.

 

 

 

 

The deed is done, but I am left with more questions than I started with, and I want to chuck my tank out the window...

 

I individually took each rock out of the tank and inspected them. My bro was in town, and knows how much the tank means to me, so he also helped, and double checked each rock. No crab was found. No fish was found. The only interesting things were a giant worm (that scared the crap out of me), and this:

 

 

 

 

Appears to be more of a molt of the crab in question. Found it wedged between two rocks.

 

I really have no idea what to do now. Either this crab is a ninja, or there is no crab. And if there is no crab, then how did 3 fish disappear and only 1 body was found in less than a week? The angel and clown are still acting fine. Clown is chasing the angel as usual...if only they knew...

 

I am completely stumped. I would appreciate any advice as to how to proceed from here. There is no way I am adding any more fish until I figure this out, and I am scared for my remaining two.

Thanks.

 

R.I.P. She was a beauty.

 

 

[Bello]

Thanks Albert

 

From what I've observed, the affected Acropora does not show any growth whatsoever.

 

Polyp extension remains normal. The affected colony can exist in the tank "as is" for months.

 

Tips become brittle. I have one affected colony at the moment, and I'm uncertain, if it's nature is contagious. I'm inclined to feel so, but have no evidence of the same, whatsoever.

 

Also, have dipped the affected coral in cephalexin. Too early to report positive/negative results.

 

Thanks for looking!

Edited October 28, 2012 by Bello

[albertthiel]

Thanks Albert

 

From what I've observed, the affected Acropora does not show any growth whatsoever.

 

Polyp extension remains normal. The affected colony can exist in the tank "as is" for months.

 

Tips become brittle. I have one affected colony at the moment, and I'm uncertain, if it's nature is contagious. I'm inclined to feel so, but have no evidence of the same, whatsoever.

 

Also, have dipped the affected coral in cephalexin. Too early to report positive/negative results.

 

Thanks for looking!

 

Check this link which I added to the previous post but I do not believe that is the same one

 

http://www.springerlink.com/content/hj0w02704j263262/

 

I am looking for more info though ... hopefully I'll be able to find more details if anything has been published on that boring algae ...

 

Albert

Edited October 28, 2012 by albertthiel

[albertthiel]

This is on my other thread too, but thought I would post here for the people on your thread to see if they are following.

 

The deed is done, but I am left with more questions than I started with, and I want to chuck my tank out the window...

 

I individually took each rock out of the tank and inspected them. My bro was in town, and knows how much the tank means to me, so he also helped, and double checked each rock. No crab was found. No fish was found. The only interesting things were a giant worm (that scared the crap out of me), and this:

Appears to be more of a molt of the crab in question. Found it wedged between two rocks.

 

I really have no idea what to do now. Either this crab is a ninja, or there is no crab. And if there is no crab, then how did 3 fish disappear and only 1 body was found in less than a week? The angel and clown are still acting fine. Clown is chasing the angel as usual...if only they knew...

 

I am completely stumped. I would appreciate any advice as to how to proceed from here. There is no way I am adding any more fish until I figure this out, and I am scared for my remaining two.

Thanks.

 

R.I.P. She was a beauty.

 

Yes it was a very nice fish indeed and I am sure the other ones you lost were as well. What you have determined is that there was a crab but since all you found is the carapace it is obviously not the crab who was the one who got your fish.

 

You did make a statement above about nasty worms ... what kind were they ? Do you know and do you have a picture as if they were Eunice works (Bobbit worms0 they would get your fish too but to know what worm it was I would have to see a picture or you can go to this link and see if it looked like it :

 

The link is to articles and pictures here on my thread ... if the worm or worms you had/have look like those then they are the culprit for sure as they do capture fish ... in fact the links will show you videos

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?...=%2Bbobbit+worm

 

and check this sone too on Eunice worms here on my thread

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?...=%2Beunice+worm

 

And check this on the Net (type in search box) : Videos of Eunice Worm

 

and you should get a number of videos that show you what they look like

 

If you have those kind you need to get all of them out of the tank and after that you should be OK to put fish back in as long as you get the large AND all the small ones too

 

Albert

[Kfmmartin19]

Yes it was a very nice fish indeed and I am sure the other ones you lost were as well. What you have determined is that there was a crab but since all you found is the carapace it is obviously not the crab who was the one who got your fish.

 

You did make a statement above about nasty worms ... what kind were they ? Do you know and do you have a picture as if they were Eunice works (Bobbit worms0 they would get your fish too but to know what worm it was I would have to see a picture or you can go to this link and see if it looked like it :

 

The link is to articles and pictures here on my thread ... if the worm or worms you had/have look like those then they are the culprit for sure as they do capture fish ... in fact the links will show you videos

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?...=%2Bbobbit+worm

 

and check this sone too on Eunice worms here on my thread

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?...=%2Beunice+worm

 

And check this on the Net (type in search box) : Videos of Eunice Worm

 

and you should get a number of videos that show you what they look like

 

If you have those kind you need to get all of them out of the tank and after that you should be OK to put fish back in as long as you get the large AND all the small ones too

 

Albert

Geez Albert...

I looked at those and was like, "maybe that's it!"

Then I looked at the bristleworm and for me it is really hard to tell the difference...

Ugh I just should not have put that rock back in the tank! And it's like the bottom rock, to make matters worse! idk if that is the one, but it was definitely a huge worm...at least 5-6 inches minimum, probably bigger. I just dont know how to tell now if it was a bristleworm or something deadlier...what do you think I should do?

[albertthiel]

Geez Albert...

I looked at those and was like, "maybe that's it!"

Then I looked at the bristleworm and for me it is really hard to tell the difference...

Ugh I just should not have put that rock back in the tank! And it's like the bottom rock, to make matters worse! idk if that is the one, but it was definitely a huge worm...at least 5-6 inches minimum, probably bigger. I just dont know how to tell now if it was a bristleworm or something deadlier...what do you think I should do?

 

Well if you think it is a Eunice (Bobbit) worm then you have to get them out of the tank ... that may mean getting the rocks back out, and then in another container getting the worm or worms to come out of the rocks.

 

Spray some soda water on the rocks when you have them out of the tank and that should make the worms come out.

 

If you want to start over again then you have to use more drastic measures like boiling all the rocks and then rinsing them and getting any dead material off them including the worms that will have crawled out but you will lose your biological filter in the process of course.

 

Now if you think it is a large Bristleworm or a Fireworm, then set up a trap for them, and catch them that way over a period of maybe a few days.

 

Put the trap in at night with some bait, and then in the morning remove the trap and dispose of the worms and at night set it up again and keep doing so till you catch no more worms for two or three days in a two.

 

Do you have a picture of that worm ? If you do post it so I can see what worm it is.

 

Based on the links I sent you what worm do you think it is ?

 

Basically what I listed above are your options and what you should do depends on the type of worm or worms.

 

I would start with the trap and catch them and then take pictures and post then here so we can see what worm or worms you have in the tank and then we'll go from there.

 

I know all of this is not good news but it happens ... and all you can do is deal with it and not give up ...

 

All of us have had to deal with worm infestations at some point, and if not all at least most of us.

 

Let me know whether you have any other questions

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

So much going on in this thread, I am confused. But I love it.

I think I am ready for the hurricain, I have gas, I cleaned the storm drains and my gutters, filled both cars with gas and filled 15 gallons of water jugs.

 

Paul ... and all those who are in the Hurricane area and are going to lose power ... I wish you the best and hope that all goes well with your tanks

 

One thing you can do if you don't have done it yet on a tank is install a battery operated air pump, so you can create some circulation and aeration in the tank even if nothing else is running. Install more than one if you wish as it is certainly not going to hurt and have spare batteries available ...

 

I would not worry about the lighting or skimmer etc ... but creating water movement and oxygenation will help prevent major problems.

 

Of course you will need to clean all filters, and get rid of all the water that had no circulation e.g. in the sump, or in an HOB, or Skimmer, as that may have become fouled if it sits in there for a long period of time due to the power outage.

 

I wish you the best and keep us posted here on the thread.

 

 

Albert

Edited October 28, 2012 by albertthiel

[albertthiel]

Guilhem sent me these two Pics of his Corals

 

 

 

 

 

 

A link for more pics if you wish to see them :

http://www.facebook.com/aqua.crew.7/photos_stream

 

 

Albert

Edited October 28, 2012 by albertthiel

[Weetabix7]

There are pics of Bobbit/Eunice worms here as well: http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=266252

You could also google pics of them if you need to see more.

After thinking about it for a few mins, I wouldn't think a 5-6" specimen would eat fish. A larger one, sure, but I wouldn't expect it of one that size.

I kept an 18-24" one in a very small tank on my counter for a few days once, so I do have some minor experience with them.

[albertthiel]

There are pics of Bobbit/Eunice worms here as well: http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=266252

You could also google pics of them if you need to see more.

After thinking about it for a few mins, I wouldn't think a 5-6" specimen would eat fish. A larger one, sure, but I wouldn't expect it of one that size.

I kept an 18-24" one in a very small tank on my counter for a few days once, so I do have some minor experience with them.

 

Well stated indeed and we are not even sure that it is a Eunice worm so that sort of complicates the issue even more. And if it was a Eurnice, that would be considered a small one as you point out.

 

If what he has are Bristle or Fireworms and the size is 5 to 6 inches then they would not have been the cause of the fish disappearing either, so this whole thing remains a mystery IMO.

 

We know one got caught in the MP10 and that would IMO only happen if the fish was in bad shape as it would not swim inside unless there was some other reason and I have a feeling that the fish that was chasing all the ohter ones may have been the cause of that.

 

Where the other ones went ... well that is what I and I think a lot of other members do not quite understand.

 

Thanks for the post and clarification

 

Albert

[albertthiel]

The Kenya Trees (amongst other corals) that were given to me by Daviid

 

 

One is small and the other is real small but both have their feeder tentacle out to capture food and when I squirted some defrosted cyclop-eeze close to them I could seem them moving more than they were before (with all pumps off)

 

Albert

[Kfmmartin19]

Well if you think it is a Eunice (Bobbit) worm then you have to get them out of the tank ... that may mean getting the rocks back out, and then in another container getting the worm or worms to come out of the rocks.

 

Spray some soda water on the rocks when you have them out of the tank and that should make the worms come out.

 

If you want to start over again then you have to use more drastic measures like boiling all the rocks and then rinsing them and getting any dead material off them including the worms that will have crawled out but you will lose your biological filter in the process of course.

 

Now if you think it is a large Bristleworm or a Fireworm, then set up a trap for them, and catch them that way over a period of maybe a few days.

 

Put the trap in at night with some bait, and then in the morning remove the trap and dispose of the worms and at night set it up again and keep doing so till you catch no more worms for two or three days in a two.

 

Do you have a picture of that worm ? If you do post it so I can see what worm it is.

 

Based on the links I sent you what worm do you think it is ?

 

Basically what I listed above are your options and what you should do depends on the type of worm or worms.

 

I would start with the trap and catch them and then take pictures and post then here so we can see what worm or worms you have in the tank and then we'll go from there.

 

I know all of this is not good news but it happens ... and all you can do is deal with it and not give up ...

 

All of us have had to deal with worm infestations at some point, and if not all at least most of us.

 

Let me know whether you have any other questions

 

Albert

So do u recommend buying a trap or making one? Any specific way to make one that's most effective? Also, unfortunately at the time I was very intent on findin the crab, so I didn't take a picture or really do anything about the worm. However, I do remember that he was actually in the rock, not the sand. Like he was in a little hole in te rock that he retreated into before I could get a good look at him. Does that tell u anything?

[Weetabix7]

So do u recommend buying a trap or making one? Any specific way to make one that's most effective? Also, unfortunately at the time I was very intent on findin the crab, so I didn't take a picture or really do anything about the worm. However, I do remember that he was actually in the rock, not the sand. Like he was in a little hole in te rock that he retreated into before I could get a good look at him. Does that tell u anything?

 

See mine & Albert's most recent comments above.

You really only need to see the head of a Bobbit/Eunice worm to identify.

Look at the pics to see what I mean.

[albertthiel]

So do u recommend buying a trap or making one? Any specific way to make one that's most effective? Also, unfortunately at the time I was very intent on findin the crab, so I didn't take a picture or really do anything about the worm. However, I do remember that he was actually in the rock, not the sand. Like he was in a little hole in te rock that he retreated into before I could get a good look at him. Does that tell u anything?

 

You are probably better off buying one but I am sure you can do a search on the forum and on the net on how to build one ...

 

You saw one and if it is in the rock and only 5 to 6 inches then I do not think that the worm is the cause of your fish losses. Why you lost them (except for 1) I do honestly not know, maybe the chasing from the Clown was so aggressive that they were so harassed that they died because of it.

 

Now on the worm, if you think it is a Bristle worm and he is in a whole you can plug up the whole with aquarium safe epoxy but usually with worms, if there is one, there are more and there may be small ones that you have not seen, and so a trap may be the best way to go.

 

As I said buy one, or look up the DIY instructions on this forum or on the Net.

 

Hopefully you will get the 5-6 inch one out and maybe more, especially if you put the trap out several evenings in a row.

 

Albert

[Kfmmartin19]

See mine & Albert's most recent comments above.

You really only need to see the head of a Bobbit/Eunice worm to identify.

Look at the pics to see what I mean.

U would think I would have noticed a head like that...but honestly I just kinda ignored it and kept moving. Do all these worms live in burrows in the rocks? I thought most of them lived in the sand?

 

You are probably better off buying one but I am sure you can do a search on the forum and on the net on how to build one ...

 

You saw one and if it is in the rock and only 5 to 6 inches then I do not think that the worm is the cause of your fish losses. Why you lost them (except for 1) I do honestly not know, maybe the chasing from the Clown was so aggressive that they were so harassed that they died because of it.

 

Now on the worm, if you think it is a Bristle worm and he is in a whole you can plug up the whole with aquarium safe epoxy but usually with worms, if there is one, there are more and there may be small ones that you have not seen, and so a trap may be the best way to go.

 

As I said buy one, or look up the DIY instructions on this forum or on the Net.

 

Hopefully you will get the 5-6 inch one out and maybe more, especially if you put the trap out several evenings in a row.

 

Albert

It honestly coulda been a lot longer than 5-6". That's just how much I saw before it retreated into the hole in the rock. I know there was more worm in the hole, just not sure how much!

[Weetabix7]

Well honestly, Eunice/Bobbitt Worms do prefer to live in rocks, to my knowledge. They're very secretive & reclusive.

And I can also see how you might have been so focused on finding some type of crustacean that you didn't pay close attention to a worm. Worms (regardless of type) generally back into the rockwork fairly quickly when found, as well.

Do you remember which rock it was in? Is it a rock that has a lot of coral on it?

I've been in a similar situation and I understand your frustration quite well, although in my case it was coral dying and not fish.

[albertthiel]

U would think I would have noticed a head like that...but honestly I just kinda ignored it and kept moving. Do all these worms live in burrows in the rocks? I thought most of them lived in the sand?

 

 

It honestly coulda been a lot longer than 5-6". That's just how much I saw before it retreated into the hole in the rock. I know there was more worm in the hole, just not sure how much!

 

As suggested get a trap. More in the morning. Am out at friends

 

Albert

[Kfmmartin19]

Well honestly, Eunice/Bobbitt Worms do prefer to live in rocks, to my knowledge. They're very secretive & reclusive.

And I can also see how you might have been so focused on finding some type of crustacean that you didn't pay close attention to a worm. Worms (regardless of type) generally back into the rockwork fairly quickly when found, as well.

Do you remember which rock it was in? Is it a rock that has a lot of coral on it?

I've been in a similar situation and I understand your frustration quite well, although in my case it was coral dying and not fish.

It was actually a bottom rock with no coral on it.

[Weetabix7]

It was actually a bottom rock with no coral on it.

 

In that case, if you are willing to tackle this tonight while you know the worm is still in that rock & hasn't moved somewhere else, I would suggest taking the rock out and placing it in a pail or something & cover it w/distilled water. That'll get the worm out. If all you saw was 5" or so, it might be a lot bigger & longer than you thought.

[tiepilot68]

Hey Albert. Here is a picture of some type of filter feeder that is prevalent in my tank. They comprise of a very hard and brittle "stem" or tube that you can see sticking up here and there on my rocks.

 

 

 

I turn my sand now once a week to keep a healthy sandbed, and whenever I do these little guys (about a quarter inch in length, tube wise) send out long long sticky tendrils to capture the particles that get stirred up.

 

I assume they are beneficial as most filter feeders are but do you know what kind they are? Definitely fan worms.

 

The only problem I have with them is they are kinda ugly and whenever I pick up a rock to move it or clean it im always breaking one or two tubes off or poking my fingers on them.

 

And ID would be awesome and also a reassurance that they wont harm my tank if that's the case. I can get rid of them easy enough if that's not the case though, as they are easily broken off.

 

Also... Nothing ever comes out of the tube unless there are clouds of detritus in the water. They are not awaken by normal fish feedings.

 

Thanks!!

[dling]

Nice pictures Albert. Looks like their doing fine. I do wish we had a better camera.

 

 

Here are some pictures I took David :

 

Rock 1 : the larger one with the Cactus at the bottom and that other growth right next to it and then at the top of the rock

 

 

Rock 2 : You can see the Kenya Tree and the littler one and then that other growth that is sort of blanked out by the light. Focus is not all that good as when I enlarged the view on my iPhone it was difficult to get it back in the right focus but the K tree is visible and the smaller one is right above it, so in the pic they look like one

 

 

The Pavona that had broken off that I glued down (strings are from it but there are far fewer now than there were early this morning

 

 

Albert

[atoll]

Good morning Albert,

I have had a very busy weekend and it seems set to continue over the next few days new car searching at the mo.

I found the following posted on another forum which looks interesting.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/G24-11W-44-LED-S...=item3a7b08f4aa

They only do up to 6500k at the moment however.

 

Les.

[Paul.b]

To update the huricain a little, all the subways, railroads, bridges and tunnels in New York City are shut down for the first time in my life, maybe in history.

The streets are starting to flood on the south shore in whats called the Nautical Mile with the water expected to rise another 6' by high tide tonight. Tomorrow the storm is supposed to get worse as it is still over 600 miles away from here.

I still have power and all seems well so far.

Have a great day.

[Weetabix7]

To update the huricain a little, all the subways, railroads, bridges and tunnels in New York City are shut down for the first time in my life, maybe in history.

The streets are starting to flood on the south shore in whats called the Nautical Mile with the water expected to rise another 6' by high tide tonight. Tomorrow the storm is supposed to get worse as it is still over 600 miles away from here.

I still have power and all seems well so far.

Have a great day.

 

I am glad that they have decided to take those measures. I have several friends in the NYC & New Jersey area and have been following developments closely. I know that in NYC there were concerns that the schools would stay open.