Seabass's 17.4 Gallon (taken down)

[jeremai]

I used KNO3 (potassium nitrate) and KH2PO4 (monopotassium phosphate); but yes, feeding and bio-load can help. The DSB will likely make maintaining nitrate more difficult. I still have a lot more to learn about it.

you probably didn't have to go quite so deep. what prompted you to use that much sand?

[seabass]

Oar Grass doesn't really need a 6" sand bed. However, some other grasses do. There are a few reasons that I went this way. First, I wanted to demonstrate what a DSB in a nano really means (I've read so many people refer to their 2 and 3 inch sand beds as DSBs). Second, I have never kept a true deep sand bed before, and it seemed like a good time to try one out. Third, I'm convinced that beds, which are in between shallow and deep, become the most problematic. And finally, I liked the shallow water display that resulted from a deep bed. I'm growing kind of fond of it.

[jeremai]

good reasons all. I'm planning Halophila for my new tank, just a 2" sandbed though. one of those problematic middle-of-the-road types.

[seabass]

I'm planning Halophila for my new tank, just a 2" sandbed though. one of those problematic middle-of-the-road types.

Will you be using Star Grass (Halophila engelmannii)? I assume that mine is Halophila ovalis. I'd also like to add some Shoal Grass, if I can find a vendor for it.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing your tank come together. I feel that I don't know that much about it and am interested in any tips/tricks that you might discover. John at Reef Cleaners suggested it might do better in warmer water (around 80ºF).

 

I've used 2" sand beds before. It should stay fairly well oxygenated, so I doubt you'll have much of a problem. If I understand correctly, the issue results in oxygen depleted areas that develop (without the underlying structure/function of a deeper bed).

[jeremai]

I'd love to use H. engelmannii, if I can find it. otherwise I'll stick with H. ovalis. my plan is for a skimmerless, sumpless SPS tank, with cardinalfish and peppermint shrimp providing natural larval plankton and using seagrass and a couple Tridacna clams for nutrient control. should be interesting.

 

have you started dosing CO2 yet? any results? iirc, sara lardizabal had some luck with CO2 injection producing some rapid growth as well as stabilizing pH. any visible downside for the cnidarians in your system?

[seabass]

Sounds interesting. No, I haven't setup my CO₂ supply yet. I need to get the tank filled (I will hopefully get that done this week). With it being controlled by a pH probe and controller, I'm not anticipating any resulting issues. We'll see how much CO₂ I can dose with the supply cutoff when the pH drops below 7.9

[bitts]

Thanks!

 

I've tried seagrass before and was unsuccessful. I can't really say that I know what is going to work. You are correct in that lack of nitrate (even phosphate) can be a limiting factor. I even got to the point of dosing nitrate and phosphate in an attempt to spur growth.

 

The substrate, lighting and CO₂ are also important contributors. This time I have a true DSB (with some mud), better lighting, and will be dosing CO₂ with a CO₂ tank and the help of my controller (to prevent low pH values). It will be interesting to see if my changes are going to be successful.

 

seabass & jer it would be of great value. if you could start a thread & post some of this in the macro forum. Having at least one dedicated thread to seagrass would be awesome.

[seabass]

seabass & jer it would be of great value. if you could start a thread & post some of this in the macro forum. Having at least one dedicated thread to seagrass would be awesome.

Here you go. I will contribute more to that thread as time permits.

[bitts]

Awesome linked into the Macro thread as the seagrass info thread. Thanks.

[seabass]

I did a little research on where to get my new CO₂ tank filled/refilled. I discovered that there are three grades of CO2. Scientific grade is the purest, while food and industrial grades are both 99.97% pure. Food grade requires a glass lined container that is washed before it is refilled, so most home beer brewers get their CO2 tanks filled by welding supply stores or places that service fire extinguishers (industrial grade CO2).

 

I just got my tank filled at a SCUBA shop this afternoon (they also fill and service fire extinguishers). I didn't know that the tank would get so cold. It was single digits this morning, but the tank got much colder than that. I'll let the temperature adjust tonight and maybe hook it up tomorrow or over the weekend.

 

The seagrass doesn't look any better than when I put it in. I'm hoping the CO₂ will help. I'll have to start testing nutrient levels. My fish seem to be adjusting well. Both are eating normally now. Also, the tank experienced a diatom bloom; however, it is clearing up pretty well.

[bitts]

Fingers crossed.

 

I'm looking for some marine botany textbooks to download as pdf's. if I can ever get my hands on them I'll let you know. All of the ones I have so far are on Biogeochemistry & Meiobenthology. but let me know if your interested.

[seabass]

Regulator installed:

 

Temporary bubble counter to test output:

 

The next step is to setup my pH prob and solenoid on my RK2.

[jeremai]

that's hardcore, lol.

 

I distinctly remember my seagrasses dying back and then reemerging with new growth after a couple weeks. maybe they just need time to settle? some calcareous algaes are like that, too - Udotea, Penicillus, etc.

[seabass]

I distinctly remember my seagrasses dying back and then reemerging with new growth after a couple weeks. maybe they just need time to settle? some calcareous algaes are like that, too - Udotea, Penicillus, etc.

Thanks, I hope they start to improve.

 

I cranked up the heat to turn on at 80ºF and off at 81.5ºF. Plus, I've introduced CO₂. Here's the solenoid and check valve for CO₂:

 

If dosing CO₂, make sure that you get CO₂-proof tubing and a CO₂-proof check valve. The check valve should go between the tank and the solenoid. Some people use a timer to run CO₂ during the day, and shut it off at night; however, I'm using my RK2 controller and pH probe to shut it down when pH drops below 7.9.

 

The pH was 8.1 to start. I'm dosing maybe 30bpm without a diffuser. I've ordered a pair of Lee's limewood diffusers to see how they work, but I'm currently just running the tubing straight into the sump. Since there is no diffuser, I don't need a bubble counter to monitor the flow. I'll adjust as necessary, but I'm just trying to get a feel for the new setup.

 

To keep everyone in the loop, here's what the grass looks like today:

 

Cross section shot of the sand bed:

[Zer0]

Great cross section shot.

 

Ever wonder what that sandbed is going to look like in a year? Maybe 2?

[seabass]

Great cross section shot. Ever wonder what that sandbed is going to look like in a year? Maybe 2?

Thanks! Yeah, I'm guessing it will start changing color. Hopefully, it will have some seagrass roots someday. I'll probably add some more life too. It could use more worms, pods, and such.

[RedAgent]

I am enthralled by this thread. I am brand new to this hobby and the art that some of you guys create is just amazing. I am following this with great interest.

[Squared]

Just finished looking over this thread. Pure awsomeness...I will be following along for the rest .

 

Also do you have an FTS with the fish and seagrass?

[bitts]

seabass it would be awesome to see a month by month of the beds stratification. I'm especially interested in taking note of how the zonation forms around the Iron & manganese stratifications. with regard to there movement based on DOP & effects from the root structure's influence.

 

I'm expecting the coloration caused by the iron to be forced down as the roots penetrate deeper into the bed. But I could be smoking crack to.

[seabass]

I am brand new to this hobby and the art that some of you guys create is just amazing.

Thanks for following along!

 

 

Just finished looking over this thread. Pure awsomeness...I will be following along for the rest .

 

Also do you have an FTS with the fish and seagrass?

Thank you! Here you go (taken today):

 

 

seabass it would be awesome to see a month by month of the beds stratification. I'm especially interested in taking note of how the zonation forms around the Iron & manganese stratifications. with regard to there movement based on DOP & effects from the root structure's influence.

I'm afraid I don't know what DOP is.

 

However, I'm contemplating covering one of the sides so that light doesn't reach the sand and cause photosynthetic algae, bacteria, or whatever to affect the view. Then we'd be able to see a truer view of the bed as it might look in the middle. IDK

[Squared]

How much space (height) is between the top of then sand and the surface of the water?

[seabass]

How much space (height) is between the top of then sand and the surface of the water?

Around 7 inches.

[bitts]

DOP: Dissolved Organic Particulates.

Combines to form detritus.

Detritus & Dissolved Particulates

Detritus can be defined as any dissolved particulate matter, regardless of the trophic layer it originated from. Normally this is dead planktonic matter which has combined with mucous secretions or other binders (sugars, amino’s...) to congeal into larger forms, called flocculent matter or more commonly snow. This then allows it to settle out of the water column. Resulting in an increase in the diversity & abundance of the fauna present. Through the improved availability of organic matter. How ever this benefit will only be realized so long as the accumulation & decomposition of the detritus does not cause the level of dissolved oxygen to be negatively effected. Where detritus is composed from mostly planktonic source’s DOM is comprised mainly of bacterial waste, with the remainder being from decaying plants & animals. The prevalence of DOM can in fact be 20-30 times that of DOP. With concentrations in the pore water reaching an order of magnitude greater than that of the water column.

In seagrass beds & mangrove forests the the void space within the sand can become saturated this detritus accumulation. In some cases reaching 40%. It will be very interesting to watch this, & see how it affects the bed itself. I'm expecting a incredible amount of diversity to come from it. But the how it will interact with the roots, is what I'm really excited about. mostly I want to see if the roots push the utilization of metals, for respiration further down into the bed.

 

 

As to the light. Even with the side blocked. The light will penetrate the sand for about 2cm ish. Then on the side where the light can be reflected by the glass. It may have an effect for another couple cm's. So while this may negate the effect your looking for. it could be of greater benefit by showing the development of phyto within the richest part of the bed. That or I'm talking out of my &^%& again.

[Squared]

how deep does a DSB need to be to be considered a DSB? also what kind of sand should be used in a DSB?

[bitts]

Squared I don't want to jack the thread so Ask here & I'll answer any Questions you have on sand.

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=260742