bonese's 40b | revival

[bitts]

see if you can keep the random but reestablish the gyre to an extent. probable just move the 40 a bit more to the back wall. Maybe an inch or two. Well maybe probably depends on where you have it right. mmm... me thinks we need pic's.

[bonese]

Gyre meaning...

[bitts]

whirlpoolish

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2007/1/aaf...%20Than%20Light

[bitts]

ok so assuming that the vortechs are in the same spots on the glass just that they've been swapped. set the master to short pulse mode. use the auto tune on the highest setting you can get the tank to handle with out splashing water on the floor. next switch to eco mode, pink or what ever it is just after green. hit set so that your in eco nutirent transport mode. in this mode you get the same short pulse wave action that you just had, but you can now adjust the power or RPM's, next set the slave to anti sink or what ever it is sorry only run one in my tank so bare with me. then adjust the speed. the 10 should now have the same wave info as the 40 working together to swirl the water around the center of the tank while still providing the back n forth from the wave mode.

[bitts]

it sort of acts as a large conveyor belt allowing for the nutrients which are suspended in the water column to move back n forth across the coral.

[bonese]

Ok So if I'm understanding this right I should want a wave? I have them running on constant (Green) to mix the salt. I think the mp40 should be the master and the mp10 the slave, So I set up the master and slave on the pumps and switch the pumps to the pink setting?

[bitts]

you don't have to have a wave, really its just one way. but its how you get that nice gentle sway & of coarse theres that oldest reason of them all. cause I can. the wave doesn't have to be splashing the water out of the tank, just enough to get the back n forth. for example when I have mine pointed at open water. I would turn the pluse mode all the way up to set the wave but in eco mode drop it to about 3-4 dots. so there wouldn't be any wave on the surface at all. yep the 40 should work as the master just fine. as to being on constant mode. I'd probably let the dust settle, but play with all of the modes now while there's justrock & water.

[bonese]

So I set up the 40 as the master and the 10 as the slave. I can't say if I like it not being sble to tell what theyre actually doing but I do like that I'm under the influence that they're "Working together". They're on the pink set up and the dust is settling isn't 100% yet.

 

I'm getting some bubbles out of the return...normal for a new tank? I know someone mentioned the bubbles but they're not the overwhelming.

 

I still have yet to start the skimmer as it seems to just straight up overflow no matter how much i open the valve. Any suggestions to that?

[Arkayology]

Bubbles most likely will go away in a few days

[bitts]

the sand will settle faster with the power levels on the vortech set to min or off. but figure that its probably not bothering you that much or you would already have it set that way. the skimmer is reacting to the dust & other things in the water that change the waters surface tension. once these settle out, the skimmer should start behaving. you'll just want to start with it set wide open at first. may be 3 or 4 days before this is ready to start though. the bubbles will improve as the bacteria films develop. if not it means that the pipes are aspirating. no big deal it can be fixed if thats the case. just means there's an incredibly small leak at a joint in the plumbing. to small for water.

[bonese]

I'm going to do a 5 gallon fresh RO/DI water change to see if it helps with my SG levels. I hope it's a nice wen -.1 for every 5 gallons of fresh water but I highly doubt it. I am going to hopefully be picking up a test kit today I haven't notoced anything with the addition of the Sand so I may buy live rock and smash it up and mix it in with my fuge rock.

 

Bubbles are still coming but they're not bothering me. Also wanted to say thank you for the constant answers and reassurance. It's definitely helping me and making this a care free and the least stressful experience when I thought I would be never be able to do this.

[bitts]

no worry's mate.

 

keep in mind the sg is barely off so swap water out a little @ time & yeah some live rock in the sump will get the tank to start cycling.

[bonese]

Going to go pick up some Live rock tonight to bash up and stick in there.

 

If the water isn't clear yet is it bevause of the SG or is it because of something else? Should I find a way to run some filter floss in the return if possible?

 

I'll be programming the Apex tonight hopefully so what would be a the best lighting schedule for me as well as the perfect temperature for SPS.

 

Also JP could you give me your favorite type of wine and could you chime in with "Perfect Parameters for the SPS Reef" - I feel like thats a reef builders title.

[bitts]

the flow is keeping the dust in suspension. turn the vortechs off for a bit & things will settle down.

 

as for lighting thats going to depend on the spacifc coral & its par requierments. honestly for this your best bet is to run a search on rc for "par value" or "needed par". intill people do more research though its kind of a guessing game & open to a lot of speculation. most will assume that if you have the lights on for the same as the sun would be up that your good. but the corals will close long before their "sun" sets because the corals needs have been met. figure a ballpark of 6-9 hours depending on things like depth, morning & dusk simulation length, par out put by the lights, height above the waters surface... I use to run my 40 watt pc for 9.8 on my lps 10 & the corals for the most part closed like an hour before lights out. really its just going to take some reading in the lighting forum both here & on rc, Yeah I know its hard to gut the rc funk back off. but some times you do what you have to. talk to evil if you can for led or grim & weetie about T5's. sorry not sure who to talk with for mh.

 

"Perfect Parameters for the SPS Reef"

mmm... well thats simply get some super fancy high end salt. mix it up with water from that newfangled 5,6, or better yet 7 stage rodi system. let that sparkley wet water age a bit & fill the tank. ok now where all set. waters in the tank cycles ready to start so on. you've got about 5 min before the water starts to degrade. those 5 min are about it from then your in a race to keep them that way.

 

ok seriously the water should be that of fresh mixed water, ok thats not completely accurate since that can be off. so with out to much chemistry, cause I suck at it.

 

calc 420-450, alk 8-10, mag around I think 1600, ph 8.3-8.5

 

that should get you started the issue is keeping them there.

 

 

ok so as for wine either a grenache, Shiraz, and mourvèdre, I popped a bottle of mitolo gam back in march wow, or maybe like a chateau de beacastel. I've got a couple of those that I'm just dieing to pop. weren't you bottling stuff the other day. is it home brew, oh tell me you got in at a vineyard. damn that would be an awesome job.

[bonese]

Just got up and turned the power heads off. Hopefully the dust will settle, I've noticed that the rock seems to have alot of "Dust" on them if I use a baster to blast them off.

 

As for lights I'm thinking I'll run the actinic from 9 - 11 am and then run them all at 11 - 6 pm then 6 - 8 pm actinic then my DIY LED moonlights?

 

I am aiming for those numbers so I do hope they are spot on - nothing you ever have said is shoddy. I'm doing all my fish #### tomorrow to get it all out of the way.

 

Family owns a winery and vineyard - Let me know if you want some for all the help.

[bitts]

I actually have a copy of captive seawater fishes at the moment from the local library. don't ask me how I managed to find one but I got really lucky at the library. It's like a 300 dollar book so if you ever see a copy grab it. anyway pg 3 has the chemical break down of salt water. in mg/L

 

H is 108,000

O is 857,000

Cl is 19,000

Na is 10,500

mg is 1,350

S is 885

Ca is 400

K is 380

C is 28

N is 15

Br is 65

B is 4.6

Si is 3.0

Sr is 8.0

F is 1.2

Li is 0.17

P is 0.07

Rb is 0.12

I is 0.06

Al is 0.01

Ba is 0.03

Fe is 0.01

Zn is 0.01

Ni is 0.007

Mo is 0.01

Cu is 0.003

As is 0.003

V is 0.002

 

now keep in mind that some of these to benefit the corals are kept elevated. like the magnesium that I thought should be around 1600 looks to be 1300 in ocean water. but its kept elevated to help with calcium & alkalinity. maybe not to the 1600 mark but still high than in nature. then since they haven't been found to matter, others are completely left out of the salt mix. but thats the break down of actual sea water. of course the book goes on to list the rest of the periodic table. but, sorry love yea but not that much. seriously you gotta see about getting the library to do an inter library loan so you can read this book. it bridges the gap between an intro to marine bio text book & saltwater for dummies.

http://books.google.com/books?id=tMeuQ4v_m...p;q&f=false

 

at some point we gotta talk wine, thats just wow. I would of course take you up on anything. it's an incredibly generous offer, not necessary. but very appreciated.

[spanko]

I make about 150 gallons per year of many different types of wines, grapes, fruits, meads. In the later part of September we have a place here in the Detroit area that brings in truckloads of wine grapes from California and I do about 50 gallons from grapes, usually Pinto Noir, Grenache, and Carignane. The rest of the time it is fruits or concentrated juices from around the world in kit form. Yum!

 

As for the chemistry issue.............

Ammonia (NH3-4)

Natural Seawater Value: 0.010 mg/L

Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.050 mg/L

Ammonia levels can rise after the addition of new animals, after a water change, or after the changing of food diet. Any ammonia level above 0.05 mg/L is a cause for concern, and the source should be found and corrected.

 

Nitrite (NO2)

Natural Seawater Value: 0.010 mg/L

Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.100 mg/L

Residual levels of nitrite are common in marine aquariums. Levels of 0.05 or less are of little concern. If the levels are higher than this, the source should be found and corrected.

 

Nitrate (NO3)

Natural Seawater Value: 0.050 mg/L

Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 25 mg/L

Nitrate is not toxic in and of itself, but a rising level is indicative of deteriorating water conditions, and any level above 5.0 mg/L in reef aquariums is a reason for concern.

 

Phosphate (PO4)

Natural Seawater Value: 0.030 mg/L

Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.250 mg/L

The use of a phosphate absorbing resin is recommended to keep phosphate levels below 0.05 mg/L.

 

Silica (Sio2-3)

Natural Seawater Value: 0.040 mg/L

Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.500 mg/L

Silicate is required by many types of sponges for growth/reproduction, but will also encourage brown diatom algae growth. Any level above 0.3 mg/L may cause a diatom bloom in the aquarium.

 

Potassium (K)

Natural Seawater Value: 390 mg/L

Acceptable Range: 350 to 450 mg/L

Potassium is rapidly depleted from aquarium water by several plant and animal metabolic processes. Maintenance of appropriate levels is critical for cellular respiration, as well as being an important nutrient for coral zooxanthellae and macro algae.

 

Calcium (Ca)

Natural Seawater Value: 400 mg/L

Acceptable Range: 350 to 450 mg/L

Calcium is critical to healthy coral

skeletal growth, and many other biological processes. Maintenance of calcium levels that are

at or near seawater values is an important factor in having a healthy reef aquarium.

 

 

Boron (

Natural Seawater Value: 4.6 mg/L

Acceptable Range: 3.0 – 6.0 mg/L

Boron is an important part of the water buffering capacity, and a lack of boron can lead to dangerous fluctuations in pH and alkalinity.

 

Molybdenum (Mo)

Natural Seawater Value: 0.01 mg/L

Acceptable Range: 0.0 to 0.12 mg/L

Molybdenum is important to microbial activity in the aquarium filter, and may also be important to stony coral health and reproduction.

 

Strontium (Sr)

Natural Seawater Value: 8.1 mg/L

Acceptable Range: 5.0 to 12.0 mg/L

Strontium is important to coral growth, as they incorporate strontium ions into their skeletal mass, particularly SPS corals. It is also important to coralline algae growth.

 

Magnesium (Mg)

Natural Seawater Value: 1280 mg/L

Acceptable Range: 1100 to 1400 mg/L

Magnesium is a very important part of the water buffering system, and is incorporated into coral skeletons. It is also critical to any photosynthetic processes.

 

Iodine (I¯)

Natural Seawater Value: 0.060 mg/L

Acceptable Range: 0.030 to 0.090 mg/L

Iodine is required by soft corals, macro algae, and for pigment development in SPS corals.

 

Copper (Cu++)

Natural Seawater Value: 0.030 mg/L

Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.030 mg/L

Copper is fatal to marine invertebrates at levels as low as 0.05 mg/L for many species.

 

Alkalinity (meq/L)

Natural Seawater Value: 2.5 meq/L (7 dKH)

Acceptable Range: 2.5 to 5.0 meq/L (7 - 14 dKH)

Maintaining an appropriate alkalinity is crucial to maintaining a healthy aquarium. A fluctuating alkalinity will lead to serious problems in maintaining an appropriate pH, as well as problems keeping calcium and magnesium levels within required ranges.

[bitts]

mmm... seams that all of us fish geeks like to do some kind of brewing.

 

henry thanks for stepping in on the chemistry stuff. It's really where my knowledge begins to lack.

[bonese]

Awesome posts guys - Can't thank you enough for those. I will use them as my guide for sure.

 

In other news I got the salinity down to 1.025 by changing out 5 gallons - 1 gallon at a time measuring as I was going along. Tank still hasn't any "Signs of cycle" with the addition of the sand so I feel that tomorrow I will invest in some live rock (Not just say that I'm going to) smash it up and celebrate christmas with seeding of the tank.

 

What are the signs I'm looking for the cycle?

 

I'll try to grab some pictures of the winery. We have to bottle 750 gallons of Cab and 1500 of merlot. Busy week after christmas.

[bitts]

hey bones

cycle simply consists of organic material breaking down & then being utilized by other aspect's of the developing ecosystem. aka the movement of elements through there respective cycles. for now the one we care about is the nitrogen cycle. the first sign will be the presence of ammonia/ammonium, then nitrite followed by nitrate. for this there must be an organic source to brake down. normally this is supplied by the DOM (dissolved organic matter) as it decays from the live rock. then the bacteria in the rock & sand as it spreads, will move the elements through the cycle.

 

so with the use of dry rock there is a lack of DOM to brake down & begin the cycle. This can be over come by your planed addition of rock to the sump. the bacteria from the rock will quickly colonize the sand & dry rock. however there will need to be a source of nutrients to feed the bacteria & support the continued cycling. if the bacteria are limited by the amount of available nutrients, then the colony may not develop & possibly collapse. thus to compensate for the amount of DOM need to support the cycle. its needs to be added in another form, aka put some $%$##^ in it. doesn't really matter to much what it is so long as its something you would put in normally. as to the amount it should only need a very small amount to start the cycle then in time once the appropriate bacterias are present. the levels will drop to 0 ammonia & nitrite. this should take about 3-4 weeks & the development of diatoms should be an indication that things are on the right path.

 

mostly be patient it may take a little longer due to the dry rock but don't worry. just give it the time it needs to develop & there will be no difference between it & any other tank.

[spanko]

People do the initial cycling of their tanks will all matter of things. Live rock being the most common. The live rock as bitts said will come into you tank with, well, life on it. It will also have death on it as during transportation it will have been out of water at times and things will have died. This death provides the decaying material. Decaying material converts into a source of ammonia amongst other things. The bacteria the feed off the ammonia are everywhere just waiting for the chance to start feeding and multiplying.

 

So..........to start a cycle going in your case where there is just dry base rock and dry sand introduce some matter that will decay. Again live rock or fish food or dead fish\shrimp\clam\mussel you get the idea. Some people use live fish like Damsels and this was the accepted approach early on in the hobby. Pretty bad to put a live critter through the initial phased of the cycle where ammonia can get to be pretty high though. I could talk about the effects of ammonia poisoning on fish but let's just say it is not pretty. You could use pure ammonia. Some people pee in their tanks.

You get the idea. If your tank were mine, I would do the fish food gig. A pinch in there every day for a few days straight and doing some testing for ammonia and nitrites will show you how the cycle is going.

 

JMO

[bitts]

bingo

[bitts]

hey Bones, Merry C-Mas. hope your having a blast.

[bonese]

Bitts - I hope you and your family had a merry christmas, and also have a great New Year!

 

Sorry for the lack of update - The snow storm took a tole on me getting out and being able to get the testing equipment. Bottling the endless pallets of cases didn't help much either. Today I'm off to go get the API Reef Test Kit - So official sounding. Then I hope to be able to add the first pinch of fish food and we can start being little chemists and looking for a cycle.

 

I may need to add a TAD more sand - Easy method?

[spanko]

Buy dry, rinse well, use a piece of PVC pipe to aim it at the bottom where you want it. Pour the sand slowly into the pipe. This will help to avoid any major sandstorm.