bonese's 40b | revival

[bitts]

you know the control valve that adjusts the water going through the skimmer just before the output. open it all the way

[bonese]

Opened it up all the way - The water level in the cone drops to about an inch or so below the red label. It doesnt seem to have the same amount of bubbles either, I know its in freshwater and that may have something to do it with it but thats about all I know. Is it normal? Also the bubbles are larger in freshwater than they are in salt.

 

Henry! You are alive!

[spanko]

Muwhaahaahaa............

[bonese]

Videos coming...I need to go get a lift.

[bitts]

water type will have a great effect on the bubbles & most aspects of function.

the main reasion for overflowing is the water line at least after they get broken in & the tank water has been skimmed a while.

 

also put just the tiniest bit of viniger you can in the bucket to help break down the residual coating form the acrylic. couple drops will do.

[bonese]

JP this is all you. I name this a joint tank between you and I.

 

So right now what is the point of putting it in a tub full of freshwater letting it run? If the water will just change the way it works is this really helping? Or should I mix some salt into the tub water and let it skim that? I'll get the video up off of my iPhone in a little bit just have some #### to do prior.

 

Mb7 is about 3 hours away from being in my tank and possession.

 

The bastard wouldn't fit in a bucket so the tub was the next available choice. Vinegar in the tub?

[bitts]

its to help get some of the oils off the acrylic, doesn't take long & not someting you need to do with every skimmer. but since its been misbehaving worth a shot. plus much easier to fiddle with & get down when its out of the sump.

 

same stuff comes of the pvc I've actually had to turn my skimmer all the way down after adding new plumbing to a setup.

[bonese]

Ok so I just ran out and got the mb7 added two capfuls which is under-dosing by 10 gallons but I don't like to over do it. I have to add that every day for 2 weeks and hopefully we will be underway biologically then.

 

The skimmer is still running fully opened and the water level has not moved up. If I close the valve the water level rises but the bubbles don't increase. Should I let it overflow to help break it in or should I just leave it be for a few hours?

[bitts]

ok slowly close the valve to adjust the waterline & see what happens with the bubbles. you right a bout the salt changing things so if it never really bubbles not a big deal. just get use to the controls. you want to learn to adjust the water line & air flow. I'm assuming that there is a needle valve for the air line.

 

also before putting it back in the tank rinse well.

[bitts]

oh your tank probable counts as low nutrient at this point. otherwise the bacteria will starve it self out after eating everything in sight. so big first dose, then drop by drop.

[spanko]

Bitts, I haven't read much on peeps dosing MB7 without a carbon source, have you?

[bonese]

Yeah I got the controls down. I don't see a way to adjust air flow it seems it. Am I just missing it and being stupid. I've read that this skimmer sits best in 6" of water so I need to build like a 3 inch stand to see if that helps. Would that even help at this point?

 

On to the mb7 - I dosed heavy as it saidni was seeding the biological filtration. So now tomorrow I should just dose by the low nutrient directions.

[bitts]

Bitts, I haven't read much on peeps dosing MB7 without a carbon source, have you?

 

not really. heard of it done in a couple place's, but mostly with vodka. but at the same time with the amount of bacteria present in the tank figure that adding some from a good source will help speed up the possess of colonization within the rock/sand. with the needed organics coming from the food thats being added. the other source I thought of for this where the standard colonizing products. but this seemed like a better option.

[Twinn]

building a stand and putting the skimmer at the right height will make a huge difference.

[bonese]

Twinn why does this make a difference?

 

JP should I continue dosing the mb7 with two caps or slow it down to the low nutrient dosing.

[bitts]

just go for the low nutrient, the high would be tanks with like 25 or more for trates. all you want is to develop a bacterial population.

[bitts]

skimmer being at the correct height will affect the pressure on the pump changing the flow & thus air

draw.

[bonese]

Yeah I emailed Jeremy over at premium aquatics. I have to make that stand and it looks like I will be making it tonight. Hopefully everything goes as planned and it will be 3 - 5" high. I do believe 5" will be too high to get the cup off.

 

How is draining the cup into a container work out? Do people seem to have no issues with it actually draining? I imagined that it would get stuck and clog the hose.

 

Maybe pictures soon as its getting to be alot of text and nothing nice to look at.

[bonese]

Photographs:

 

 

 

 

 

Pictures of the stand to come.

[bonese]

i built the stand - It is 3 1/2" and it did the job. I'm so excited that my skimmer is actually working that I don't know how to fine tune it. I want the bubbles to be popping at the top of the cone by the collection cup? Or do I want them to pop in the neck and then get pushed up? Right now its fully open and the bubbles are popping right above where the collection cup sits into.

 

Thanks to bitts Spanko and everyone who helped out in the great skimmer debacle. I REALLY owe you guys something.

[bitts]

there needs to be room in the neck a foam head to develop & then move. this doesn't have to be extreme but some movement will be needed. don't worry as you tweak it things will make more sense. also keep in mind that you'll never actually be happy with a skimmer, last, well 3 weeks ago, I had this nasty black tar coming out of mine. but I couldn't take the smell. this week I have green tea & I'm hating the fact it won;t just pull & shut down. its acting like a foam cannon no matter what I do. all you can do with any skimmer is tweak it & wait for the eventual environmental factors to kick you in the teeth.

 

 

here this is my standard skimmer post

 

 

the water column in in the skimmer should be from the bottom up.

water without bubbles, (this may not be visible due to the chamber being black)

there will be a visible point were this changes

then a mixture of water & bubbles

finally a point were the bubbles become thicker & a dense layer of foam will form moving up & down in the neck. this point were the bubbles brake may fluctuate but the water line should be stable.

 

ideally the distance between the water bubble line & the bubble brake point should be as large as possible. which is why they are is so tall.

 

 

 

 

source of pic of the 2 pics above.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost...mp;postcount=30

 

 

 

As to dialing in the skimmer.

 

The bubbles should be a consestent size through out the coloum. Ideally as small as posable with no turbulence. (this is where adjusting the air volume comes in) Just small bubbles Moving slowly upwards. Finnaly collapsing near the colection cup. This point of collapse will do several things. Wet vs dry skimmate. How quickly sludge builds up on the neck of the collection cup, reducing production.

 

Most people complane about ther skimmer not functioning due to the fact that in an attempt to get deep dank dark sludge they set the skimmer so that there forms a nice thick chunk of foam in the neck. Sort of like what you would expect on a capaceno. Thick enough that you could float a coin on it. Now I'm not saying this is wrong but there is an ideal placement of this thick foam. The problem that most run into is that in order to get this sludge they never have the foam cap raise high enough to have it deposit anything in the cup. Leaving nowhere for the buildup to collect but on the walls of the neck. Quickly reducing the skimmers effectiveness. Even on a propperly adjusted skimmer the neck needs cleaned every 2-3 days. So having it set corectly is very important.

 

To set it adjust the water line then the air flow to detrimin the bubble size. then wait an hour or two.

 

The fun part is getting it to this prefect point. Without overflowing the cup when you turn it back on after powering it of. This mostly comes from having the water line to high with the air to low. This is the other reason why people end up with the miss-adjustment. They just set it to not overflow on startup.

 

skimmer selection should be based more on bioload than tank volume. this is what allows the foam to form & move up the neck, into the cup. when the bioload is to load, it prevents the foam from forming in a Constantin manner. which results in the skimmate forming on the neck further reducing production. you adjust the production rate of an over powered skimmer somewhat by controlling the airflow. however the waterflow may be more difficult to control with out compromising the skimmers performance.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Aquatic-Systems-Engi...n/dp/1888381108

 

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-03/fm/index.php

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-06/fm/feature/index.php

http://w3page.com/fishline/gif/ddskimpz.jpg

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~cap/raid/skimmers/orig_dd/index.html

http://www.hawkfish.org/snailman/skimmer101.htm

http://www.thekrib.com/Filters/skimmer-ets.html

http://www.reef2reef.com/forums/lighting-h...discussion.html

 

 

speaking of skimmate.

 

[bonese]

So if I'm understanding this correctly, I want to get the bubbles to pop and to overflow into the cup. Basically have the bubble breaking level a little lower then the top of the cylinder. Now am I right in believing that having the skimmer on "Full open" will create the lowest spot for bubbles and now I need to fine tune it. Meaning I have to cut the air to raise the water level?

 

More Air = Less Water Level

Less Air = More Water Level

 

^ Correct?

 

Will get something up to show whats going on on this end.

 

Where is this wall of fish ####?

[bitts]

so I checked some pic's of your skimmer & they seem not to have a needle valve, which is ok. for now it makes it easier.

 

but yes when adjusting air draw

lower air intake will allow more water to flow or amount entering the pump, causing the water line to raise.

grreater air intake will reduce the water flow or amount entering the pump, causing the water line to drop.

 

with out the needle valve. all that has to be adjusted is the water line. so it kind of makes things easier. now as to where to set the bubble brake point start with it around say three inches below the top of the neck. this will let the bubbles in the neck gather a very strong coating, causing there surface to become stronger. these will then start to collect around the neck wall & as the bubbles brake the "stuff" on those bubbles will be absorbed by these bubbles. again increasing the amount & strength of the foamate until there is a solid foam cap from the neck wall all the way across the center of this cap. once this cap forms then the gunk coming up that is being sprayed when the bubbles brake, will stick to the bottom of this cap. since this cap is now solid without a hole in the center the air that is raising through the column will force the cap up the neck until it flows over the rim of the neck into the cup. much like the head on a beer if its pored wrong. this movement of the cap is what we need to focus on next. if there is nothing for the skimmer to collect the foamate will not form. but as the amount of blah increases so will the amount of foamate, reflecting this. thus being thicker & needing more room to move up & down since the cap will be thicker. permitting less air to pass through it. once the cap is formed. we only want the top layer of it to flow over the rim, so that the gunk can still add to the bottom of the cap.

 

anyway allow for 3/4 to an inch for this bubble brake to form the cap. then the cap will probably need to be again around 3/4 to an inch, with an inch or two for it to move with out completely over flowing into the cup. starting with the bubble brake point around three inches below the rim should be a good starting point.

[captainbastard]

Great info, where in the world is that pic taken

[bitts]

I have NO idea. but its just so wrong that I cant help using it, whenever skimmers come up.