Red hornets and why they're not rare part 2

[moto826]

why is every one smashing mark every one has there own opinion no need to bash him for his

[GiantBen]

why is every one smashing mark every one has there own opinion no need to bash him for his

Multiple times he comes in the thread just to *laugh*.

In my opinion, he needs to get a life.

If he wants to state is case using an informative dialog, that is fine with me.

[mikedege]

OH and I see those "Dege Pinks" all the time at my LFS. He gets his stuff from a transshipper and they come in dark pink, spend about two weeks under 20k 1,000w MH then get that nice pink color. He charges $60 for a colony of about 30 or so. I had some for a while then gave them away. I just didn't like the pink.

 

Urchinhead Removed from UltraRareLE Degepink waiting list! HA....

[ddwbeagles]

I do have a legitimate question to those that are posting in favor of the elite red hornet zoas:

 

Since the colors and shadings can fluctuate so much with each polyp, and depending on how much light each polyp gets, then theoretically, you can mis-name certain types based on the color and intensity of lighting in your tank. How do you maintain legitimacy, and consistency across the board? Is there a prescribed environment these should be grown in? Is there some kind of certification process?

 

That my friend is the million dollar question! About 50% of the time you see a thread titled "ID this new polyp for me" is a prime example of just that. It's a common and known variety that has been subjected to stress or trauma causing TEMPORARY color changes. It is not a newly discovered Zoa or Paly species. Lighting, poor photography, Alk/Ph swings, etc.... can cause this.

 

In order for it to be a new variety or color morph, it has to demonstrate the ability to replicate itself and I and preferably over two generations. Best question/comment on the thread thus far. Once we figure out the answers to those, I suspect we'll see a lot of price drops.

[organism]

So I don't think it's fair to assume that just because Makoy's, Marvin's and Nanoyed's photos look unreal that it's due to photoshop and not the coral's actual coloration.

 

Although the "colored up" photo in the original post does show signs of being oversaturated.

 

Very true, but it's when the superglue has turned LE colors and the texture of it looks like it was shot in a cgi movie that you know some not so sneaky photoshop was done.

 

Plus lighting sure can make them look spectacular, like a car in a showroom, but when you come down to it motu828 and johnnymu's pictures show them in the "once you drive the car home" light.

 

We just put together some t5's here with very similar bulb combinations that most of the zoanthids guys use, I'll be taking some new pics shortly just to show the same zoanthids as yesterday under different light.

 

Best question/comment on the thread thus far.

 

+1, everyone knows that coral colors vary a huge amount under different lighting and water conditions, it's widely accepted by everyone in the hobby. Except red hornets. Those always look the same, lol. Had johnnymu or motu828 posted the pics they did, not mentioned lineage and asked if they were real red hornets I think we all know how that would've gone.

[Urchinhead]

Urchinhead Removed from UltraRareLE Degepink waiting list! HA....

Cheers mate. Didn't realize they were your's. Or wouldn't have said anything.

 

That said... You want me to pick some up for you so you can meet quota?

[Withers]

Very true, but it's when the superglue has turned LE colors and the texture of it looks like it was shot in a cgi movie that you know some not so sneaky photoshop was done.

 

Plus lighting sure can make them look spectacular, like a car in a showroom, but when you come down to it motu828 and johnnymu's pictures show them in the "once you drive the car home" light.

 

We just put together some t5's here with very similar bulb combinations that most of the zoanthids guys use, I'll be taking some new pics shortly just to show the same zoanthids as yesterday under different light.

 

Yeah, that's why I said I'm reserving judgment for now. I think we're at the point where the difference could be photography related.

 

The "colored up" shot has been oversaturated to the point where it has lost significant detail, but I've seen other shots that don't look like they're overprocessed that show similar coloration. The issue is that most people don't ever get that coloration, and the frags that people are buying are significantly browned out from being in less than ideal conditions.

 

I don't know where I'm going with this, but at this point you could probably sell yours as Red Hornets and no one would question it.

[organism]

Yeah, that's why I said I'm reserving judgment for now. I think we're at the point where the difference could be photography related.

 

I don't know where I'm going with this, but at this point you could probably sell yours as Red Hornets and no one would question it.

 

I agree that it's most likely just photography at this point, but to clear up I'm not trying to sell anything as red hornets, or anything at all. These frags will get given away once they color up and hopefully someone can make a DBTC thread on them so that they stay free for everyone that wants them down the line. In the meantime, people can probably find the same colonies at their lfs for like $3 a polyp, you just have to get so close to them that your nose gets wet sometimes just to see if they've got the red skirts.

 

There's two versions of these that come in, some with red skirts and some without, the red skirt ones will always turn out red hornets, but sometimes the skirt color is really faint so it's hard to tell. That's exactly why I picked the most browned out colony I could find, and you can already see a huge difference from the colony pic in the first post to the pics I posted up yesterday

[Withers]

I wasn't trying to imply that you were, but I have no doubt that some of the people you give them to will.

[organism]

I doubt it since I'll be making sure they go to legit people from the start, and it'll be pretty hard to pull off as the lineaged ones once I hit a bunch of other forums with the same thread, regardless of internet tough guy threats that it'll somehow get me banned. Once it gets out that they are about as rare as dragon eyes the people that care about lineage (not that there's anything wrong with that) will really start researching the lineage of who they came from.

[Withers]

I wish they were that common on this side of the states. I've never seen them over here.

[Black Mark]

Multiple times he comes in the thread just to *laugh*.

In my opinion, he needs to get a life.

If he wants to state is case using an informative dialog, that is fine with me.

 

Laughing is my opinion, you must have missed the last thread where I dropped all the facts I needed to. I'm just waiting for this thread to show up on other forums.

 

btw, the reef club misses you Benny.

[organism]

What's funny is you admitting you're kraylen in pm's but not in public because you'd get banned again, but hey, at least on other forums you can use your real screen name.

[organism]

I wish they were that common on this side of the states. I've never seen them over here.

 

Chances are pretty good that you've seen them and gone "ew", that colony in the original pic looks pretty gross, lol.

[Black Mark]

Only person who said I was Kraylen is you sir. I remember something along the lines of you having friends "behind the scenes" or something with Ip addresses... or something, I dunno.. it sounded lame and improbable.

[Nanobuds]

Black Mark isnt kraylen.... he doesnt even talk how kraylen usualy talks lol

[organism]

New pics from under the newer t5 fixtures.

 

These have been under really, really low light in the 1000w 20k halides tank, not much in the way of bright color but 100% alternating skirts.

 

 

 

These are the ones that have been thinking of coloring up under better light in the 1000w 20k halide tank, the ones I posted pics of yesterday.

 

 

 

And I hit this one with a bit of saturation

 

[DoubleD]

I'm looking to get into this "high stakes" zoa game, and I was wondering how you certify that something is LE, Ultra Rare, Lineaged or from the depths of the Mariana Trench???

 

So I will repeat the question:

 

Since the colors and shadings can fluctuate so much with each polyp, and depending on how much light each polyp gets, then theoretically, you can mis-name certain types based on the color and intensity of lighting in your tank. How do you maintain legitimacy, and consistency across the board? Is there a prescribed environment these should be grown in? Is there some kind of certification process?

 

Dog breeders have to follow guidelines and maintain lineage, records and consistency in rearing in order to remain certified. The same with Orchid growers, African violets, and other "collecting/breeding" hobbies.

[organism]

Black Mark isnt kraylen.... he doesnt even talk how kraylen usualy talks lol

 

Only person who said I was Kraylen is you sir.

 

So is that a + or a - from you sir?

 

Yeah, I know, it's crazy how eerily dissimilar they are.

[Nanobuds]

hmm..... good point....

 

oh well... those hornets are looking awesome!!

[organism]

Thanks, I'm actually pretty surprised on how fast they've colored up. Just to post a recap they went from this on week one

 

 

To this on week 2

 

 

and week 5

 

 

and week 5 and a half under t5's

 

 

enhanced

 

 

Not a bad timeline from doo doo brown to this in under 6 weeks

[animalmaster6]

Wow they are really looking good!

[neuwave]

Wow nice zoas. Keep it up organism. Colors are coming out very nice.

[Withers]

I'm looking to get into this "high stakes" zoa game, and I was wondering how you certify that something is LE, Ultra Rare, Lineaged or from the depths of the Mariana Trench???

 

So I will repeat the question:

 

Are you serious? Lineage means that you can trace your frag back to the original colony. The idea, in addition to status, is that by buying frags from a colony that's been aquacultured for so long that it's more likely to live and keep it's colors in your tank. It applies more to SPS than zoanthids since they're so fragile to begin with, especially if they're wild caught.

 

That's how you certify it. Is that sufficient or does someone need to dumb it down even more?

[GiantBen]

Lineage means that you can trace your frag back to the original colony.

 

Seems like doing this is pretty hard unless you are buying from the owner of the original colony, or someone he can vouche for. Do people who sell these high-end frags keep track of everyone they sell them to, so that these paths can be traced even after they have been re-sold 10 or more times from the original? I'm curious on this, because it seems like buying something like this for the point of propogation requires that the person you buy them from is willing to vouche for you in the future.