murphs_reef 92G - retired, thanks guys

[seabass]

1 hour ago, Murphych said:

I restart dosing quantum LR Nitrate and phosphate removers on a half dose (this is a cautious measure due to test results & assumptions) as I think what the test results are telling me is that the nutrients are being consumed by the bacteria quickly, coral growth had slowed since seeing the cyanobacteria but since restarting dosing has not been positively or negatively impacted further.

I'm confused by this.  If I read this correctly, their nitrate remover is a carbon source; and cyano is often associated with carbon dosing.  And dosing lanthanum chloride when the phosphate level is already below recommended levels seems contradictory to me.

 

1 hour ago, Murphych said:

I feed 1 cube of frozen mysis (TMC) every 3 days and do not feed anything else. 

I'm fairly convinced that organics (like detritus in the sand bed or even dissolved organics in the water) are the primary cause of cyano blooms.  But occasionally they are due to bacterial imbalances.

 

As a side note, I feel that Vibrant can cause both of these situations as the organics are created from dying algae (and possibly other organisms), while potentially throwing off bacteria populations as well.  However, I don't believe you are currently dosing Vibrant, are you? This was just an illustration of how I believe cyano is caused by organics and bacteria imbalances.

 

So I would do my best to to reduce organics of all forms.  I'd also probably stop dosing those nutrient reducers.

[Murphs_Reef]

3 hours ago, seabass said:

I'm confused by this.  If I read this correctly, their nitrate remover is a carbon source; and cyano is often associated with carbon dosing.  And dosing lanthanum chloride when the phosphate level is already below recommended levels seems contradictory to me.

 

I'm fairly convinced that organics (like detritus in the sand bed or even dissolved organics in the water) are the primary cause of cyano blooms.  But occasionally they are due to bacterial imbalances.

And that's my point if there is detritus / organics in the tank due to overfeeding, insufficient flow, or whatever causing the bloom, it would be reasonable to suggest that there would be elevated nitrates and or phosphate? In turn feeding the bloom and being pulled from the column. 

I didn't know that dosing / using carbon  oils result in cyanobacteria so that's worth know thanks. 

I could take a further step and feed only once per week, but I feel that wouldn't be sufficient for the animals? 

 

Oh yeah I stopped using vibrant a while back. It decimated my pod population (or that's my belief anyway....)

[seabass]

48 minutes ago, Murphych said:

And that's my point if there is detritus / organics in the tank due to overfeeding, insufficient flow, or whatever causing the bloom, it would be reasonable to suggest that there would be elevated nitrates and or phosphate?

It has been very common to equate these two things.  However, I personally don't believe we should be directly be associating inorganic nutrient levels and organics.

 

I sometimes cringe when I read that test of inorganic nutrient levels result in false negatives due to a bloom of some sort.  It's true that the bloom is consuming the available nutrients; but the tests are reflecting real-time accurate inorganic nutrient levels.  These are the amounts of nutrients which are available to your corals and other photosynthetic life.

 

Pest blooms are often well equipped to survive these starvation events.  And further restriction of these nutrients doesn't usually favor beneficial life forms.  Low nutrient levels and lack of competition are often what people cite as a reason for dinos taking hold.

 

1 hour ago, Murphych said:

I could take a further step and feed only once per week, but I feel that wouldn't be sufficient for the animals?

I don't think that starvation of pests is really the answer.  And it certainly doesn't benefit our livestock.  Feed your tank normally, but don't overfeed so there is waste.

 

Try to concentrate on removing waste and other organics from your system.  It might take some time, but your efforts will likely pay off.

[Murphs_Reef]

Sump cleaning part 1a 

The return is spotless, cleaned out small amount of detritus and added a turbo for a couple days to keep the hermit company 

[Murphs_Reef]

The hornet's like their new location after a period of recovery from being too close to the torch!!

[Murphs_Reef]

This fella is settling in well

 

Some blue mushrooms

 

[Murphs_Reef]

 MAINTENANCE SCHEDULE 

 

Weekly 

 

Monthly 

 

 

 

 

[Murphs_Reef]

Finally got a half decent picture of the Scopus Tang, he swims around so quickly it is difficult to pin him down, but he's a bit chilled today on the lookout for algae.

 

[Murphs_Reef]

So we now have a good amount of Sycon raphanus present in both the sump and DT. The cyanobacteria is less present so it appears that the tank at just shy of 4 months is moving on and beginning to mature well. 

[Murphs_Reef]

 

CURRENT PARAMETERS 

Temp: 25 °C

NO3 (Salifert): 10.0 ppm 🔺

PO4 (Hanna): 0.00 ppm 

SG (TMC): 1.025

dKh (Salifert): 9.6 🔻

Ca (Salifert): 450 ppm

Mag (Salifert): 1450 ppm

 

Overall thinks are looking good in the Reefspace this week.

Picture as lights are dimming and coral closing up for the night. There is something peaceful about the tank at this time of night.

[seabass]

Another thing about undetectable phosphate levels is that nitrate isn't taken up as readily either, as phosphate has become a limiting factor.  You might consider dosing some Brightwell NeoPhos.

[Murphs_Reef]

Yeh you might be onto something @seabass I am really struggling with phosphate and keeping it even above 0.01 for more than a day. 

 

10% water change today none the less as I need to remove some cyanobacteria. 

[Murphs_Reef]

Ok so I stopped dosing. Feeding is the same 3 days a week. I did collect my macro and add in a fist full of cheato to create a designated refugium instead of having the macro in the display. Since this time my cyanobacteria has gone wild, I'm sucking mats out every morning but its coming back within hours. My phosphate on the Hanna is blinking 0.00 and nitrates have dropped from 10 to 2 in the last week. I did a 10% water change on Sunday as I wanted to vacuum as much cyano out as I could which I wouldn't say would be enough if a change to trigger this bloom. 

 

I'm wondering if I should: 

• Dose as described by @seabass the brightwell product
• Remove the macro completely from the tank 
• Or do nothing and let it run it's course but if nutrients stay this low I might also be on a trip to dinos 

[seabass]

Have you confirmed cyano versus dinos?  I assume it's standard red slime and not golden or brown.

 

The speed that it comes back is surprising.

 

I'm not sure of the source.  I still feel that cyano is primarily caused by either organics or a bacterial imbalance.  I guess I'd check my source water, maybe even try dosing MicroBacter7, I might even siphon out my sand bed if I got desperate enough.

 

The nutrient consumption is normal with massive blooms.

[Murphs_Reef]

Sure thanks mate, I cleaned the sand bed 1 hour ago. Here in the picture below you can see patches coming back it's pink to dark red of slime in areas already:

 

The source water is 0 on both phosphate and nitrates, just did the tests right now. I mix my own from RoDi from a very reputable marine specialist store, and the salt mix is Tropic Marin which I have always used.

 

I am adding 3 bags of pods a week, more as I have a YCG and Dusky wrasse which spend a lot of time eating them but also have a log in the sump. 

 

All other parameters are stable enough (as you see from the test results I have been posting in this thread).

 

Removing the sandbed unfortunately would be an issue for the wrasse so I would rather that was last stance of I can help it. 

 

[seabass]

24 minutes ago, Murphych said:

Removing the sandbed unfortunately would be an issue for the wrasse

Yeah, that's right.

 

26 minutes ago, Murphych said:

The source water is 0 on both phosphate and nitrates, just did the tests right now. I mix my own from RoDi from a very reputable marine specialist store

I'd still buy a TDS meter.  They are relatively inexpensive and they are a good check when using RO/DI (made by yourself, or someone else).

 

Going forward:

• I might try dosing Microbacter7.  It's helped some people.
• Another solution might be trying DrTim's Cyanobacteria Treatment Bundle: https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/120-gallon-cyanobacteria-treatment-bundle-dr-tim-s.html
• And as a last resort (and I'm reluctant to recommend it), you might siphon out the cyano and then dose ChemiClean.  You need good aeration for this.

[Ratvan]

48 minutes ago, Murphych said:

Removing the sandbed unfortunately would be an issue for the wrasse so I would rather that was last stance of I can help it. 

 

worse case scenario, a deep (3-4") tupperware container full of sand for wrasse's bed. 

[Murphs_Reef]

Cheers lads. I'll have a think about what you said and come back. 

Lol closer looking at the cheato I might as well remove it.. it's covered in cyano as is the skimmer neck. One less light period to worry about?

 

[Murphs_Reef]

Ok ordered a DD tds pen 

[Murphs_Reef]

Cyano aside the space invaders are looking great, I split a couple polyps off from the main colony and put them on the left hand side of the tank as it's a bit if an empty zone, picture taken just before lights out: 

 

And the GSP is romping on well, picture taken first thing this morning so not open yet, but check the mat at the bottom of the picture:

 

[Murphs_Reef]

Checking phosphate it's a solid 0.00 (or not blinking so very minor improvement) This is how we look this morning @seabass rock and sand covered.. the pic don't really show the extent of it as well as by eye.

[seabass]

It certainly looks like cyano.  My biggest fear with treatments, is that the cyano might be out competing dinos; and cyano is much preferable to dinos.  Therefore, I hesitate to use something like ChemiClean, which will no doubt get rid of the cyano (at least temporarily).

 

You are probably better off trying a sludge remover like DrTim's Waste-Away or Seachem Pristine.  I can't remember, are you running a skimmer on this tank?

[Murphs_Reef]

Yeah that's where my head is at. Cyano although painful to look at, can be cleaned up in 10 minutes for a day at least, dinos well... No thanks. 

I do run a skimmer, the bubble Magus c3.5 skimming very light and more to oxygenate the water than to skim. 

 

I am going to remove the refugium, although it's only been in a fortnight or less and not had much time to do anything, it's become a mess already, I ripped out a bunch of cheato last night as it was over spilling into the skimmer area, and the addition light has brought cyano into the sump.

I might keep cheato in my small shed tank for tang food and to harvest pods maybe but as for it being in the sump It's just not for me at all. 

 

Before I do anything else however, I'm expecting this tds meter today so will check the source water and feedback on that so we have a more complete picture.

 

[Murphs_Reef]

This TDS meter still isn't here... If it's not here in 1 hour, do you know what I'm going to do???!!!!?? 

I'm going to sit here and wait some more quietly... Then we will see how they feel when I don't complain to their faces at the door step! 

[banasophia]

6 hours ago, seabass said:

It certainly looks like cyano.  My biggest fear with treatments, is that the cyano might be out competing dinos; and cyano is much preferable to dinos.  Therefore, I hesitate to use something like ChemiClean, which will no doubt get rid of the cyano (at least temporarily).

 

You are probably better off trying a sludge remover like DrTim's Waste-Away or Seachem Pristine.  I can't remember, are you running a skimmer on this tank?

glad you mentioned this about outcompeting... I like to use chemiclean then once I do my water change start dosing Microbacter 7 hoping the beneficial bacteria will outcompete the cyano and dino... but that just made me think I should try dosing the Microbacter 7 first without the chemiclean, so I just added to all my tanks which all have a little cyano right now 🤞🤞🤞

 

12 minutes ago, Murphych said:

This TDS meter still isn't here... If it's not here in 1 hour, do you know what I'm going to do???!!!!?? 

I'm going to sit here and wait some more quietly... Then we will see how they feel when I don't complain to their faces at the door step! 

haha what’s that saying about watched pots... I wonder if it holds true for watched door steps