Please help me stop killing corals

[ElJefe99]

Hello all,

I have lurked forums for a long time, have learned lots, but am at an impasse as to why I keep killing corals ...

 

Tank info is as follows:

Biocube 29 with LED hood
Tank is 2.5 years old with live rock and sand

I have a home-made protein skimmer in chamber 1

I have filters and chaeto fuge in chamber 2, with chaeto lights on alternate schedule from tank

I run a 50 gpm wave pump in addition to the tank pump

2 misbar clowns, and a happy CUC

 

Parameters:
Temp 81

Salinity - 1.026 SG

Nitrate, Nitrite, Ammonia - 0

Calcium - 440 ppm

Mag 1365 ppm

pH 7.9

Alkalinity 7.0 kKH (a touch low, yes?)

 

25% Water changes every 7 - 10 days with RO/DI water from LFS.  I use Crystal Sea Bioassay salt.

 

I have a small zoa colony that is happy, but not going gangbusters or anything.  I have managed to kill a torch and an acans in the past few months, and the favia I picked up 10 days ago is not happy - it has receded into its skeleton.  If it follows the pattern of others, I will never see it again.  I drip acclimate all my new corals.

 

I realized magnesium was low (900 ppm) when I brought the favia home, and I raised it less than 100 ppm per day to the current level.... 

 

I gave the favia an iodine dip ...

 

What are the chances the favia will rebound now that mag is higher?  

 

The bigger question ... what am I missing / doing wrong?  I have a little algae, but the CUC and the skimmer along with water changes keep it in check with nothing taking over.

 

Many many thanks for your time and info!

 

-Alan

 

 

[M&C]

Just some things that stand out from reading your post: 

• Have you checked your phosphate level?
• Do you run any carbon or other media? If not there may be some chemical warfare going on which is irritating your corals.
• Any faulty equipment? Thinking some type of electric current in the water or leaching metals. Especially with your homemade skimmer.
• Have you tried checking your temp with a different probe? Sometimes those can fail and give you a bad reading. 
• Have you ever cleaned your sand bed? After a few years you could have some seriously nasty stuff building up in there if you don’t maintain it. 

Hope this helps. 

[Christopher Marks]

Welcome to the community @ElJefe99!

 

81°F is a little on the high side, does your tank ever overheat during the day?

 

What do you feed your tank? Did you ever feed the corals directly?

 

How often do your harvest your chaeto? Is it possible that the chaeto has become too efficient at removing nitrates, and your water has become too low in nutrients for coral? 

[ElJefe99]

Thanks all!  The protein skimmer pump is external and the only thing submerged is the air hose, stone, and cylinder, so no transient electrical there.  I pretty much took the undersized one from biocube and increased the chamber height so it actually works.  

 

I have another probe and it shows the same temp, so I will drop the heater a degree or two. No issues with temp above set point. 

 

I feed fish twice a week, give them new life spectrum and shrimp pellets. 

 

I have tigger pods that live in the chaeto. Feed them marine snow once a week. I target feed reef roids once a week. 

 

I had issues before with high nutrients and algae bloom so that’s why the low food amounts, and the fish are pigs and the CUC is picky if they get too much food. I can increase some if you guys think that’s wise. 

 

I will harvest the chaeto and remove some of it. 

 

I usually turn the sand bed over about 4 times a year, but also watch for nitrogen bubbles at the glass and release them as soon as I see them. 

 

I currently run chemi pure blue as well as phos-zorb, but purchased elite for next change (every 4 weeks). I run filter floss and change it when dirty, check it daily. 

 

Thanks!

[MrObscura]

Couple things... One, you're feeding way too little and starving your corals. Low nitrates and phos are way more problematic than high. In fact high nutrients aren't even an issue most of the time though the misconception is out there that they are. With softies and Lps especially you'd have to try to raise nutrients too high. Personally for a mixed reef if no3 is under 30 and po4 under 0.1 I'm good. I worry about being too low, not too high. 

 

Also drip acclimating, while not necessarily the problem, isn't doing you any favors. It's far more stressful to animals than just getting the into the tank asap. 

[ElJefe99]

Thanks all for the input. I’ll share a few photos when I can. 

 

As for why I have the phos-zorb and the skimmer, I had diatoms and lha taking over for a while. 

 

For the benefit of the corals, do I stop either one, both?

 

Also, if I test general hardness, I don’t get a result. It goes off the chart ... but calcium seems right??

 

Thanks!

Edited August 21, 2019 by ElJefe99
Added info

[ElJefe99]

Here’s a photo. Just fed so some of the zoa still closed. It’s on the upper frag plug. The favia is looking just awful on the lower left piece of rock. 10 days ago it was fully open and happy at the LFS. Now I’m not sure it will even come back?

[Clown79]

Lack of nutrients is more problems than higher levels. Its the one thing that looks to be an issue.

 

Like @MrObscura, I also keep nutrients at higher levels(not nitrate) nitrates sit 2-5 and phos 0.11- 0.25(depends on tank)

 

Using phosphate reducers and not testing every 4 days, can strip a tank easily. Add other media like chemipure and then chaeto, this could lead to starving a tank.

 

Starving the tank can lead to poor health in fish, poor health in corals, and dreaded dino's.

 

So lack of nutrients is something to consider as a cause.

 

Fluctuations in alk are another possible issue. 7dkh is nsw, most like to keep it a bit higher because if it drops in between waterchanges and there is no dosing done to replenish alk, this equals to low levels of alk which jumps a bit with a waterchange.

 

 

[Ratvan]

What CUC do you have in the tank? From what I can make out with the Zoas you have a bit of algae growth on and around them.

I would remove the phosphate removal media first and continue to feed as usual. Test every few days or daily and work out if you need to take out the skimmer as well

[jkspeller]

Feeding just twice a week along with a 25% water change is going to result in a tank that is too clean. Cut back to 10-15% and start feeding the fish daily 🙂

[ElJefe99]

Thanks all for the feedback. I’m ordering a phosphate test kit so I can keep tabs on it, and removing the phos-zorb. 

 

Will increase feedings. 

 

Ratvan you are correct about the algae on the zoas. 

 

My CUC is 

dwarf ceriths

blue leg hermits

florida ceriths

nassarius vibex

nerite snails

 

but I’ve had better luck manually removing algae from the zoas than getting them to touch it. 

[ElJefe99]

As a follow up question: when do I know the favia is a goner?  Do I wait until bleached, slimy discharge, other?  I don't want to get rid of it, but also don't want it in the tank if it is dead and just making a mess of things.

 

Thanks!

[ElJefe99]

Here are more zoomed in photos of the zoa and favia

[Clown79]

50 minutes ago, ElJefe99 said:

Here are more zoomed in photos of the zoa and favia

Is there any flesh left on the favia? If not, its garbage. If there is flesh, there is a chance of regrowth.

 

 

What phos test are you getting? Hanna and salifert are the best.

[Tamberav]

Tank looks too clean. Algae is a healthy part of a reef. The goal is to have the correct CUC to keep it in check not starve it out. 

 

Po4 absorb + chemi pure + skimmer + fuge + 25 percent water changes is A LOT for a 29g with 3 fish.

 

My 25g has 8-32 Nitrate and 0.1-0.4 PO4 most days...corals love it. The dirtier makes the zoas grow faster. I keep a variable cuc of snails and an urchin which keeps algae in check. A little manual removal now and again for hard to get spots for them.

 

I run a small amount of carbon ...floss..and a skimmer. I do water changes every 2-3 weeks of 5g and fees heavily with frozen.

 

 

I would suggest you remove that PO4 media and start feeding some frozen in your rotation. I am not a believer of only pellet foods for fish...I don't feel this is healthy to only feed them pellets. My favorite frozen food is LRS nano....it has amazing ingredients and will feed your corals too.

[ElJefe99]

Great info, thank you!  Will add frozen food to the regimen and tone down the "clean obsession"

 

As for the favia ... there might be some flesh left, can't really tell.  If it fluoresces at night, still a chance, otherwise ... kaput?

 

I really appreciate everyone's guidance and suggestions.

[ElJefe99]

2 hours ago, Clown79 said:

Is there any flesh left on the favia? If not, its garbage. If there is flesh, there is a chance of regrowth.

 

 

What phos test are you getting? Hanna and salifert are the best.

I've ordered the Salifert.  Really like their Mag test.

[ElJefe99]

Update:

phos test shows 0 ppm. Not really surprising at this point, but I have removed the phos-zorb and can monitor now. 

 

when feeding corals yesterday noticed no fewer than 8 bristle worms coming out of the live rock. I know some folks maintain that they are part of the natural process and good for cleaning sand, but since I have read that some species can eat corals I’m going to trap and remove what I can. 

 

I have increased feedings to once a day, and have ordered the LRS nano frozen food. 

 

Thanks!

[Clown79]

Those types of bristles are not common. Common Bristle worms are a great addition to a cuc.

 

Also, there is when a coral is unwell and or dying, it's a common occurrence to have cuc members cleaning up and get blamed for eating a coral. 

[Reefing009]

I drop all my new corals into the tank right when I get home. I usually inspect the corals at the lfs and making sure it’s not showing signs of stress from a pest, etc., it’s actually more stressful to drip acclimate corals and fish. Just drop them in the tank and they’ll be fine. Your parameters looks good, maybe feed your fish a bit more or buy coral frenzy and broadcast feed once a week.

[Garf]

On 8/21/2019 at 4:57 PM, ElJefe99 said:

..

I currently run chemi pure blue as well as phos-zorb, but purchased elite for next change (every 4 weeks). I run filter floss and change it when dirty, check it daily. 

 

Thanks!

I think other reefers have covered this, but why running chemi pure blue and phos-zorb? You asked for health of the corals, stop which, or both. I think the answer is for now, stop both. The hard part of this hobby is knowing when to run what and why. Been there, I have a pack of chemi pure elite the Amazon house elves magically delivered to my house that sits unused (well I used one bag). Reading here, I have fallen into the camp of run carbon and that's all. Filter pad/floss, and carbon should be all you need, provided your liverock is capable of performing its magic. Testing params, and performing routine maintenance timely should do most of the heavy lifting for you. Watching your corals to see how happy they are can tell you a lot, just don't go chasing a single param, or move things too qickly. Stability is key, as is patience. 

 

Questions, how did the mag get so low? Did you see a corresponding drop in CA / Alk? 

 

25% WC every week could be a bit much, have you tried 15%? 

 

Test the LFS RODI to mke sure TDS is low.  

 

Do you know what your salt target params are? Are you sure you know?

 

Testing salinity and alk for your mix is a good practice. You don't have to test every week, but it helps you keep track of things and can help in determining your tank's calcium and alkalinity consumption. Sucks to get three weeks into a new box of salt and you realize your alk is too high. 

[ElJefe99]

Thanks for the good points. 

 

I tested the salt mixed with RODI water. Sure enough, Mg was sitting at 900 dkh, so I think that’s how it got so low... it always was that low.  Alk was at 9 and Ca at 410 ppm. 

 

So it seems that every water change was trying to pull my Alk back into range, Ca is good, but that Mg would never come up with just water changes. 

 

My Mg in the tank (over 4 days) went from 1365 to 1290. Over the same time, Alk went from 7 dkh down to 6, so I’ve started supplementing slowly to pull it back into a better range. 

 

Looks like I will have to supplement Mg when I change the water to keep it up, and will keep an eye on Alk as well. 

 

Thanks for listening and giving pointers. 

[Clown79]

7 minutes ago, ElJefe99 said:

Thanks for the good points. 

 

I tested the salt mixed with RODI water. Sure enough, Mg was sitting at 900 dkh, so I think that’s how it got so low... it always was that low.  Alk was at 9 and Ca at 410 ppm. 

 

So it seems that every water change was trying to pull my Alk back into range, Ca is good, but that Mg would never come up with just water changes. 

 

My Mg in the tank (over 4 days) went from 1365 to 1290. Over the same time, Alk went from 7 dkh down to 6, so I’ve started supplementing slowly to pull it back into a better range. 

 

Looks like I will have to supplement Mg when I change the water to keep it up, and will keep an eye on Alk as well. 

 

Thanks for listening and giving pointers. 

I had the same issue with one salt causing low mag. I would dose mag but every water change, it dropped.

Everything else was great but the mag.

[ElJefe99]

I wanted to give a follow up. 

 

I have followed advice here and (generally) things are better. Saturday, for the first time, the favia had some visible polyps and was somewhat “inflated”. There was much celebrating. Then, on Sunday, the favia and my chalice both receded dramatically. All numbers look good ... not sure why the steps backward, but hoping things continue in a generally positive direction. Chalice looks pretty terrible tonight ... it’s currently in an iodine dip (hence the yellowish color) but looks like it’s pretty far gone ... all the light colored areas are new within the last 48 hours . Still glows under actinics so I am assuming something is still alive in there. Any ideas on the rapid decline?

 

Thanks all. 

 

 

 

 

[j.falk]

On 8/21/2019 at 5:05 PM, MrObscura said:

Also drip acclimating, while not necessarily the problem, isn't doing you any favors. It's far more stressful to animals than just getting the into the tank asap. 

Yep.