Please help me stop killing corals

[parajax]

How is your salinity and what are you using to measure it?   At the beginning of this thread, your reported 1.026.  That is at the high end and could be much higher if your measuring instrument is inaccurate.  Too much salinity will negatively impact corals. 

What lights are you using?  Intensity, etc?  

 

[Clown79]

Lack of nitrates and phos are an issue. Corals need both.

 

Another issue could be too much light or too much flow. Both corals like low to moderate 

[ElJefe99]

I'm currently using a hydrometer to measure salinity -- are there preferred refractometers I can pick up?

 

I'm not intentionally removing nitrates or phos anymore, other than what the protein skimmer is removing.  Any thoughts there?

 

I have moved the chalice to lower light - will do the same for the favia.

 

Lights are the Biocube LEDs; I shortened the period for the blues.  Can post actual schedule when I get home tonight.

 

Thanks all!

[ElJefe99]

As promised:

Light schedule is
LC1 9:00 AM - 7:00 PM

LC2 8:00 AM - 6:30 PM

LC3 12:00 PM - 12:30 AM

 

I have also backed down the speed on the wave pump and added a timer so it is only on from 8:00 AM to 7:00 PM

[Clown79]

1 hour ago, ElJefe99 said:

As promised:

Light schedule is
LC1 9:00 AM - 7:00 PM

LC2 8:00 AM - 6:30 PM

LC3 12:00 PM - 12:30 AM

 

I have also backed down the speed on the wave pump and added a timer so it is only on from 8:00 AM to 7:00 PM

What's LC3?

[Perthreefer]

I'd say this is almost certainly a nutrient issue as others have said. Just be careful of making changes too quickly, I noticed you've gone from 7dKh to 10dKh in a relatively short space of time, stability is the key. You can run a system at 7 with no issues, but moving alk around too much will cause coral stress in exactly the same way as temperature and salinity will. 

[mcarroll]

 I will second with just about everyone else has said.

 

I will also add:

Keep your pump gph up.  

 

You will test alkalinity instead of general hardness.

 

Your salt has un-suplemented levels of alk, ca and mg compared to something like Instant Ocean.   You should be prepared to add a little baking soda, a little calcium and a little magnesium to each water change to maintain NSW levels, or whatever your targets are.  As long as you mix the same amount of salt water every time you can calculate the quantities that need to be added and they will be the same every time.

 

 if possible, consider upgrading your fish food from dry to frozen, fresh or even live. It will be much better for the fish and the tank itself.

 

It looks like you may only have a damsel fish, which is probably fine with twice a week feedings...But keep in mind that most fish will benefit from multiple feedings per day. You just have to keep in mind the total quantity of food going into the tank.

 

Don't worry so much about the numbers, just worry about keeping any algae growth managed.  

 

If algae gets long, you have to pull it because it will be too big for the snails. If you go in and pull algae out but it grows back too fast, that means you don't have enough herbivores.  Don't add them all at once, but for perspective you might need up to one or two turbo snails per gallon, or equivalent.

 

Don't worry about bristleworms.

 

Don't think that medicated dips and acclimation time are good for the animals.  They are only tools. They each serve a specific purpose and each one can be stressful or even lethal...so they so be used only as-needed.

 

The only real exception to that is a freshwater dip for salt water fish. And that is only because fish are very insensitive to salinity so it's hardly stressful at all, but it does have a desirable impact on any parasites which may be present.  Depending on the level of trust you have for the fish store you're buying from, freshwater dipping your fish for 5 to 15 minutes when you bring them home before they go in the tank (whether its a QT or a display)is probably a pretty good idea.  

[ElJefe99]

On 9/20/2019 at 12:01 PM, Clown79 said:

What's LC3?

LC3 is the blue LEDs

[ElJefe99]

Another week another issue. I changed water 9 days ago, and ever since there has been a diatom bloom. I tested for phosphate and it shows 0. Water was RODI from LFS. I am guessing their water has something wrong?  I can’t figure it out. Numbers unchanged, but everything covered with diatom algae and even live rock is dying. And the tank ... smells. When I open the lid, it smells like low tide. Any ideas? Change to different water source?

[mcarroll]

Having zero phosphate is not a reassurance, it is the problem.

 

Are nitrates also zero?

 

With a smell like that it may very well be toxic dinoflagellates.

 

The toxins in the water make a very peculiar smell that at least some people (maybe all people) can smell.

 

The first thing I would do as a safety precaution for you and your tank and inhabitants is to run a full measure of activated carbon.   I would suggest considering this part urgent. 

 

Take a sample of the algae and run a test on it to see if it is dinoflagellates:

 

1. Put the sample in a vial with some tank water and shake it up to homogenized the sample.

 

2. Then leave the vial under a light or in the sun for a while maybe up to a few hours (usually quicker) and see if any of the algae coagulates back into a mass.

 

Only dinoflagellates can do that.

 

Diatoms and cyanobacteria will remain homogenized. 

 

If you find that it is dinoflagellates, remove the excess filtration that you are almost certainly running. (Correct me if I'm wrong and tell me how you are running your system.)

 

This could mean removing granulated ferric oxide, stopping carbon dosing, removing excess bio media, shrinking or shutting down a refugee him, etc. 

 

If it so happens that none of those apply to your tank, please make your best guess as to why nutrient levels are so low.  

 

The nutrients situation will have to be remedied somehow, dosing liquid nutrients is the most direct and most efficient way.

 

But we should get more information from you before we go further than that.

 

[ElJefe99]

Thank you be very much for your reply!

 

Nitrates are at zero. 
 

for activated carbon, I am running chemipure blue right now. Is something else needed?

 

I will run the test you describe. 
 

For more information, my setup is:

 

Biocube 29

chamber 1 - protein skimmer, heater

chamber 2 - removed stock floor, replaced w InTank filter box and fuge. Filter box has poly filter on top, chemipure blue, then bio balls. Fuge has chaeto with chaeto light that runs at night. 
chamber 3 - stock open-cell filter for incoming water from chamber 2; cleaned w each water change. Air stone, stock water circulation pump. 
 

I have a wave pump in the display. 
 

Nothing else. No auto dosing, no reactors. 
 

Thank you,

Alan

[Clown79]

59 minutes ago, ElJefe99 said:

Thank you be very much for your reply!

 

Nitrates are at zero. 
 

for activated carbon, I am running chemipure blue right now. Is something else needed?

 

I will run the test you describe. 
 

For more information, my setup is:

 

Biocube 29

chamber 1 - protein skimmer, heater

chamber 2 - removed stock floor, replaced w InTank filter box and fuge. Filter box has poly filter on top, chemipure blue, then bio balls. Fuge has chaeto with chaeto light that runs at night. 
chamber 3 - stock open-cell filter for incoming water from chamber 2; cleaned w each water change. Air stone, stock water circulation pump. 
 

I have a wave pump in the display. 
 

Nothing else. No auto dosing, no reactors. 
 

Thank you,

Alan

You have a lot of filtration going, that's 1 reason you have 0 nutrients.

 

Skimmer, fuge, chemipure, and bioballs.

 

If you have dino's, the best thing is running only activated carbon, use smaller amounts and change weekly.

Waterchanges will need to be stopped.

 

You need to figure out if its dino's because treatment is different than with gha, cyano, etc.

 

I had dino's, my tank didn't smell but most dino's contain a toxin that can be a threat to livestock and even known to cause some issues with us.

 

The more dino's in the tank the more likely it will smell. Red tide apparently stinks.

 

I suffered severe sinus issues for the duration of my dino's. 

 

If you have dino's, check out my lagoon thread page 7, I documented my steps to get rid of them

[Crys]

Hi I am new as well and have trouble with some of my coral as well.  My question is about the drip acclimation.  I have always hear you must do it with corals, so found it interesting that it is better to just get into the tank.  This makes sense to me.  I have found the temp. drops as you do the drip which I guess is not a good thing.  I also do a dip with coral x

My problem is mainly with a few LPS I have tried.  I neon candy cane, lemon wind pipe, and a flower pot. I have also lost a pulsing xneia😭 an some zoa.  But some zoa and mushrooms doing great.

Tank has been running for 10 months everything has been added slowly.

 I feed twice a day.

Run lights 12 hours a day (they are just the ones that came with the Fluval Evo spec 13.9 gal (should I leave the blue lights on for the night?)

salinity 1.025 I use RO water 10% water change weekly

Temp 78 I live in Canada, so overheating has not been a problem, but it has dipped to 70 a few times

Nitrates 0

Nitrite 0

ph 7.8

kh 80

CUC 6 snails, 5 hermits, peppermint shrimp, emerald crab (I have never seen and of them bother the coral)

2 clowns, yellow watchman and tailspot blenny. (the light of my day)

I haven't been measuring for minerals

 

I appreciate the time experienced people give to us New tank owners.  Sorry I am 56 and can't call myself a Noob or is it Knob lol

 

[Ratvan]

48 minutes ago, Crys said:

Hi I am new as well and have trouble with some of my coral as well.  My question is about the drip acclimation.  I have always hear you must do it with corals, so found it interesting that it is better to just get into the tank.  This makes sense to me.  I have found the temp. drops as you do the drip which I guess is not a good thing.  I also do a dip with coral x

My problem is mainly with a few LPS I have tried.  I neon candy cane, lemon wind pipe, and a flower pot. I have also lost a pulsing xneia😭 an some zoa.  But some zoa and mushrooms doing great.

Tank has been running for 10 months everything has been added slowly.

 I feed twice a day.

Run lights 12 hours a day (they are just the ones that came with the Fluval Evo spec 13.9 gal (should I leave the blue lights on for the night?)

salinity 1.025 I use RO water 10% water change weekly

Temp 78 I live in Canada, so overheating has not been a problem, but it has dipped to 70 a few times

Nitrates 0

Nitrite 0

ph 7.8

kh 80

CUC 6 snails, 5 hermits, peppermint shrimp, emerald crab (I have never seen and of them bother the coral)

2 clowns, yellow watchman and tailspot blenny. (the light of my day)

I haven't been measuring for minerals

 

I appreciate the time experienced people give to us New tank owners.  Sorry I am 56 and can't call myself a Noob or is it Knob lol

 

What happened with the LPS corals? Do you have a photo? Cant help with Xenia or Zoas as I cannot keep these alive past 2 months myself either 🤷‍♂️

[mcarroll]

1 hour ago, Crys said:

Hi I am new as well and have trouble with some of my coral as well.  My question is about the drip acclimation.  I have always hear you must do it with corals, so found it interesting that it is better to just get into the tank.  This makes sense to me.  I have found the temp. drops as you do the drip which I guess is not a good thing.  I also do a dip with coral x

My problem is mainly with a few LPS I have tried.  I neon candy cane, lemon wind pipe, and a flower pot. I have also lost a pulsing xneia😭 an some zoa.  But some zoa and mushrooms doing great.

Tank has been running for 10 months everything has been added slowly.

 I feed twice a day.

Run lights 12 hours a day (they are just the ones that came with the Fluval Evo spec 13.9 gal (should I leave the blue lights on for the night?)

salinity 1.025 I use RO water 10% water change weekly

Temp 78 I live in Canada, so overheating has not been a problem, but it has dipped to 70 a few times

Nitrates 0

Nitrite 0

ph 7.8

kh 80

CUC 6 snails, 5 hermits, peppermint shrimp, emerald crab (I have never seen and of them bother the coral)

2 clowns, yellow watchman and tailspot blenny. (the light of my day)

I haven't been measuring for minerals

 

I appreciate the time experienced people give to us New tank owners.  Sorry I am 56 and can't call myself a Noob or is it Knob lol

 

Firstly, you should know what the place your bought them from recommends and do what they said. 

 

If you don't follow their guidance, it's going to be that much harder for you to communicate with and get help from them in the future.

 

Second, you should read up on whatever process they recommend so YOU know the pro's AND con's of the routine.  Ask questions about it there and here!  That way you are able to exercise good judgement during the process if/when needed.

 

Thirdly, you should check your phosphates.  Nitrates are listed at zero and that can be a problem.  But if phosphates are also zero (or even near-zero) that is a much bigger problem, and more than likely is what your corals are having troubles with.  Might have nothing to do with acclimation, although it's definitely possible to cause problems there.

[A.m.P]

On 10/2/2019 at 8:40 AM, Clown79 said:

I had dino's, my tank didn't smell but most dino's contain a toxin that can be a threat to livestock and even known to cause some issues with us.

 

The more dino's in the tank the more likely it will smell. Red tide apparently stinks.

 

I suffered severe sinus issues for the duration of my dino's. 

Maybe off-topic, but what on earth are dino's supposed to smell like?

[mcarroll]

My guess is "acrid" but I've never smelled it in person.

[mcarroll]

FYI, dino toxin is extremely similar to Palytoxin, so you might find some references to what the smell compares with via some googling on one or the other.

[Ratvan]

It'll smell like sulphur I reckon, people will claim smells like a sewer (they mean treatment plants) a lot of that smell is some form of sulphur component. I would assume someone saying rust as well as iron seems to be a main pollutant in this process as well

[A.m.P]

Pretty much drew blanks, people just say "foul", "rotten", or "fishy" lol (sulfur would make sense since they're supposedly chief-producers of dimethyl sulphide [but that's rarely-described as smelling-like sulfur and all vegetable-based dimethyl-producers smell VERY different, to me at least])... Not that senses are particularly-reliable, inter-relatable, or useful, still people claim they smell a certain way and it'd be interesting to know exactly what that is haha.

[Clown79]

3 hours ago, Amphrites said:

Maybe off-topic, but what on earth are dino's supposed to smell like?

Mine didn't smell but apparently during red tide it's quite strong.

Some ppl have noted a smell from their tanks, if you ever been on a beach with a ton of algae due to storm, like that. The strong fishy smell.

[Clown79]

1 hour ago, mcarroll said:

FYI, dino toxin is extremely similar to Palytoxin, so you might find some references to what the smell compares with via some googling on one or the other.

Osteo has palytoxin in it.

 

I had upper respiratory issues during the month + I had dino's. No other cause Was prescribed meds but it went away as soon as the dino's died off.

[Crys]

Hi I contacted the place where I got the LPS, and showed them a photo.  They said it's a goner and there were to many possibilities that could cause the problem and that was that.  The candy cane turned white, the flower pot just disappeared and the pipe organ turned into a honey comb.  So they basically turned into skeletons.  I will get a kit and start testing phosphates.  I live in Canada in a small town so get a lot of stuff on-line and it costs me between 40-50 dollars to ship items so really a downer when they die.  I think I should just stay away from LPS.  Sorry can't find the photo right now.

[Clown79]

4 minutes ago, Crys said:

Hi I contacted the place where I got the LPS, and showed them a photo.  They said it's a goner and there were to many possibilities that could cause the problem and that was that.  The candy cane turned white, the flower pot just disappeared and the pipe organ turned into a honey comb.  So they basically turned into skeletons.  I will get a kit and start testing phosphates.  I live in Canada in a small town so get a lot of stuff on-line and it costs me between 40-50 dollars to ship items so really a downer when they die.  I think I should just stay away from LPS.  Sorry can't find the photo right now.

The main culprits often are

 

Lighting(too much/too little), flow (too much for certain corals tears their flesh), lack of nutrients(they need nutrients or they slowly die off) , alk fluctuations(major issue for lps and sps)

[A.m.P]

17 minutes ago, Crys said:

Hi I contacted the place where I got the LPS, and showed them a photo.  They said it's a goner and there were to many possibilities that could cause the problem and that was that.  The candy cane turned white, the flower pot just disappeared and the pipe organ turned into a honey comb.  So they basically turned into skeletons.  I will get a kit and start testing phosphates.  I live in Canada in a small town so get a lot of stuff on-line and it costs me between 40-50 dollars to ship items so really a downer when they die.  I think I should just stay away from LPS.  Sorry can't find the photo right now.

How long did it take for them to become "skeletons", just curious at this point because if it happened quickly I'd almost be tempted to say you might have some kind bacteria or parasitic-organism.

 

Quote

Osteo has palytoxin in it.

 

I had upper respiratory issues during the month + I had dino's. No other cause Was prescribed meds but it went away as soon as the dino's died off.

 

I would be really, really tempted to write that off as correlation, not causation. 
No offence but the concentration would just be all wrong unless you constantly vaporized the compounds while in close-proximity, now that's not to say you couldn't have been allergic/sensitive/irritated, but it likely had nothing to do with the more-dangerous compounds people recognize Dino's for or anything akin to palytoxin for that matter.