Need to know if there is any algae control medications that won’t hurt corals or anemones or scaleless fish?

[WV Reefer]

I don’t think the OP is resistant to any suggestions at this point but I think he has been clear that money is an issue at the present moment.  

 

If you have to prioritize one thing right now it should be water quality. That will help all of your issues in some way.  

 

Then you’ll be in a better position to set up a hospital tank to treat the illness. A hospital tank can be a rubber tub..... it doesn’t have to be fancy. 

 

17 minutes ago, GlassHouse said:

 

 

 

What you are seeing is probably at least somewhat due to the bad husbandry in the tank. You need to clean your tank immediately. You may need to vaccum that cyano daily until you get your nutrients under control. Removing this fish temporarily (or permanently) will help.

 

Yes to all of this! 

 

57 minutes ago, HarryPotter said:

@EthanPhillyCheesesteak I would recommend trying to get the tank nutrients under control if you want the fish to recover.... Water change and siphon the sand bed. Basic saltwater 101 maintenance

 

Exactly. 

 

 

[Floundering_Around]

I used five gallon buckets to QT and medication my new fish. At home depot, it costs about five dollars for the bucket and the lid

[Daniel91]

10 minutes ago, Floundering_Around said:

I used five gallon buckets to QT and medication my new fish. At home depot, it costs about five dollars for the bucket and the lid

Wait you’ve QT’d fish for however many weeks in a homer bucket? 😬

[Floundering_Around]

Separating the angel will allow you to make sure it's actually eating. You'll have to be careful of the water quality as it's only five gallons. Remove any uneaten food and waste to avoid more problems. You can "insta" cycle the bucket or other QT container by putting a little piece of live rock in (you're gonna want to throw that piece of live rock out once you're done  as it will be contaminated with any possible disease and medication that you use, and you don't want that leaching into your main tank.)

 

Something that just occurred to me, @EthanPhillyCheesesteak, have you been supplying your angel with algae? They require greens in their diet and it looks like your tank is lacking in that department (cyano not included). If you don't already have some, get some noir/seaweed, even some lettuce, spinach, or cucumber will help (at least in the freshwater world)

[EthanPhillyCheesesteak]

Yea, thank you, I’ll have to figure this out, I need to invest in a hospital 

[HarryPotter]

2 minutes ago, EthanPhillyCheesesteak said:

Yea, thank you, I’ll have to figure this out, I need to invest in a hospital 

 

I would do water changes before you invest in a hospital tank. 

[EthanPhillyCheesesteak]

6 minutes ago, HarryPotter said:

 

I would do water changes before you invest in a hospital tank. 

Yea, that’s what I’m planning 

[GlassHouse]

11 minutes ago, Daniel91 said:

Wait you’ve QT’d fish for however many weeks in a homer bucket? 😬

 

I'm not sure why this is controversial. I do this all the time, especially for smaller fish. It's cheap and you don't have to worry about ruining an aquarium with medication. Many medications torpedo your biological filtration, so if you have to, you can easily just move the fish to a new bucket with fresh water. 

 

If you want to be fancy, they have 3.5 gallon buckets that are (mostly) transparent. They cost $7 and allow you to see the fish.

https://express.google.com/u/0/product/14504892261528672045_1806398977840230945_7472660?utm_source=google_shopping&utm_medium=tu_cu&utm_content=eid-lsjeuxoeqt&gtim=COfe1vqHz-yZJxDynInd8fTEmFsYwNTDAyIDVVNEKKD0jeMFMJSMyAM&utm_campaign=7472660&gclid=Cj0KCQiA-c_iBRChARIsAGCOpB1fZF2VfOqTrpgXdzS2wI6OdDzu3D1sxnM5cL_iz1XX6HjzZzpkKPgaAr3vEALw_wcB

 

[Floundering_Around]

4 minutes ago, Daniel91 said:

Wait you’ve QT’d fish for however many weeks in a homer bucket? 😬

yup, first my pair of clowns for about a month and a half; i used a piece of live rock from my tank since i was removing excess pieces anyways. Just recently, I QTd my new tail spot blenny. He was just added to the tank and is doing great.

a five gallon bucket takes up less vertical space than another tank since it doesn't need a stand, plus I can easily move it around since it has a handle and doesn't weigh that much comparatively. PLus it has a quick set up, i just make sure to always have an extra few pieces of rubble on hand for filrtration along with a small powerhead

[FrontMan]

14 minutes ago, HarryPotter said:

 

I would do water changes before you invest in a hospital tank. 

 

Sorry, but that’s a pretty stupid approach and generally horrible advice. Cleaning this tank is going to improve water quality over a few weeks at best, but the fish’s health is compromised now and it may not live for a few more weeks. It would be far better to move the animal to a healthy environment immediately and treat the infection while you clean the tank. If left in place, the issue is likely only to get worse in the near term.

 

A bucket costs $5 and and antibiotic is like $7. How much was that fish? $50 or more I’d guess.

[HarryPotter]

5 minutes ago, FrontMan said:

 

Sorry, but that’s a pretty stupid approach and generally horrible advice. Cleaning this tank is going to improve water quality over a few weeks at best, but the fish’s health is compromised now and it may not live for a few more weeks. It would be far better to move the animal to a healthy environment immediately and treat the infection while you clean the tank. If left in place, the issue is likely only to get worse in the near term.

  

 A bucket costs $5 and and antibiotic is like $7. How much was that fish? $50 or more I’d guess.

 

Changing water actually improves water quality immediately, by diluting toxins and correcting unknown problematic parameters. For all you know, the fish could be suffering from ammonia or contaminants 🙂. 

 

Care to make another stupid comment?  Did you not attend high school?  C1V1= C2V2 😉 
 

[EthanPhillyCheesesteak]

6 minutes ago, HarryPotter said:

 

I would do water changes before you invest in a hospital tank. 

Yea, that’s what I’m planning 

[HarryPotter]

Just now, EthanPhillyCheesesteak said:

 Yea, that’s what I’m planning 

 

Great. That will improve water quality for all of the inhabitants 🙂 

[Tamberav]

My head hurts....

 

Walmart probably has everything you need to make a cheap QT and grab some distilled in one trip 👍

[FrontMan]

6 minutes ago, HarryPotter said:

 

Changing water actually improves water quality immediately, by diluting toxins and correcting unknown problematic parameters. For all you know, the fish could be suffering from ammonia or contaminants 🙂. 
 

 

A 20% water change only improves things by 20%. Even If you did partial water changes daily, it would be at least a week for noticeable improvements. 

 

i guess you could do a full drain, but I don’t think that’s what you were recommending and it comes with its own set of challenges and pitfalls. 

[Tamberav]

BTW here is a photo of my hospital tank with the lid off if this helps you visualize. 

 

Air pump, small heater, some spots to hide in a plastic bin I had been storing random crap in. 

 

 

[GlassHouse]

33 minutes ago, HarryPotter said:

 

Changing water actually improves water quality immediately, by diluting toxins and correcting unknown problematic parameters. For all you know, the fish could be suffering from ammonia or contaminants 🙂. 

 

Care to make another stupid comment?  Did you not attend high school?  C1V1= C2V2 😉 
 

Maybe you should start your own thread when you don't understand something and/or stop making recommendations when you don't have any experience. If the OP does a 5 gallon water change, that's going to dilute contaminants by about 20%. Contaminants continue to build up between water changes, even if you are doing them daily. Imagine if I came over to your house and pooped in your pool. Would you change out 20% of the water daily to get rid of it? I sure wouldn't. Now imagine I pooped in your pool everyday. How many 20% daily water changes will it take to remove all the poop from your pool?

I don't think we know the OP's phosphate and nitrate levels, but I think it's safe to assume that it's high. Based on the pictures, I'd say it's two weeks of every other day water changes to get levels to a reasonable level. The cyanobacteria is going to continue to thrive in the meantime, at least for a week or more. 

As noted above, you could do a 90% water change, but if the OP doesn't even have a hospital tank, it's probably safe to assume that they don't have enough buckets to do a large water change either. 

[WV Reefer]

@HarryPotter I think someone put a hit out on you! 😂

[Tamberav]

6 minutes ago, WV Reefer said:

@HarryPotter I think someone put a hit out on you! 😂

 

 

[Christopher Marks]

Let's stay objective here folks. I think a lot of sound advice and recommendations have been given, despite conversation getting off track. @EthanPhillyCheesesteak has a few options on how to move forward, it's up to them to enact it, one way or another.

[StinkyBunny]

Bottom line is this.

 

There are NO magic bullets to fix husbandry problem, none.

 

You need to do water changes. In a tank that small a 5g/day change would be a 100% change in 6 days. A $70 bucket of salt should last you close to a year.

 

If you're going to have that many fish in a small tank, you're going to have organic contaminates, period. Make sure your make up water is top quality or you're just causing more problems.

 

Quit looking for the cheap/easy way out, there isn't one. Reef keeping isn't a cheap hobby. There are ways to save money, but it's still not cheap.

[GlassHouse]

2 hours ago, StinkyBunny said:

 In a tank that small a 5g/day change would be a 100% change in 6 days.

Ugh. No.

 

Assume:

5 gallon water change per day.

25 gallon total water volume.

 

DAY 1: 20% water change. 80% of original water left. 

DAY 2: 20% water change. 64% of original water left.

DAY 3: 20% water change. 51% of original water left.

DAY 4: 20% water change. 41% of original water left.

DAY 5: 20% water change. 33% of original water left.

DAY 6: 20% water change. 27% of original water left.

 

Lets assume OP’s phosphate is at .25 and nitrates are 40 (that’s probably being generous, it’s probably far worse). At the end of Day 6, the best case scenario is phosphate at .08 and nitrates at 11. The reality is that nitrates and phosphates continue to grow from waste during those 6 days of water changes so it’s probably more like phosphates at .1 and nitrates at 15. I get it, that’s a big reduction, but it’s not nearly enough. There are still plenty of phosphates to continue to feed a cyano outbreak through day 6.

 

Small percentage water changes really are a terrible way to reduce nutrients when there is a problem this large. Small percentage water changes are helpful for avoiding problems and replenishing/balancing trace elements.

 

[Tamberav]

ah dang it.. can't enbed imgur videos 

 

I have been in a good mood all day ever since I saw this: https://imgur.com/a/xW61Zib

 

[StinkyBunny]

46 minutes ago, GlassHouse said:

Ugh. No.

 

Assume:

5 gallon water change per day.

25 gallon total water volume.

 

DAY 1: 20% water change. 80% of original water left. 

DAY 2: 20% water change. 64% of original water left.

DAY 3: 20% water change. 51% of original water left.

DAY 4: 20% water change. 41% of original water left.

DAY 5: 20% water change. 33% of original water left.

DAY 6: 20% water change. 27% of original water left.

 

Lets assume OP’s phosphate is at .25 and nitrates are 40 (that’s probably being generous, it’s probably far worse). At the end of Day 6, the best case scenario is phosphate at .08 and nitrates at 11. The reality is that nitrates and phosphates continue to grow from waste during those 6 days of water changes so it’s probably more like phosphates at .1 and nitrates at 15. I get it, that’s a big reduction, but it’s not nearly enough. There are still plenty of phosphates to continue to feed a cyano outbreak through day 6.

 

Small percentage water changes really are a terrible way to reduce nutrients when there is a problem this large. Small percentage water changes are helpful for avoiding problems and replenishing/balancing trace elements.

 

Um, they're just fine for reduction without stressing the shit out of everything. I did it that way on an 80 and it worked just fine for me. YMMV. Some people have great luck with larger changes, I have not. I use lanthanum chloride too so I don't have a phosphate issue. I'd bet if he cranked up the flow some the cyano would disappear on it own with the water changes. And where did I say to stop at day 6? I did not. If you feel good doing 10g/day, go for it. My 50 cube has been trucking along on 5-6g every 4 days for almost 4 years and nothing but iodide and LnCl added to it. It's stuffed full of leather and hard corals, probably more than it should have in it.

 

If he has issues that high with PO4 it needs to be addressed, he needs a resin in there to remove them or use LnCl regularly. Dumping shit in there to kill the algae is doing what without it being removed? That's right, recycling the nutrients and ADDING to the load which is what he was after in the first place. Treat the CAUSE, NOT the product of the contaminant. We have no damn clue what his parameters are so, at best, we're just stabbing in the dark.

[FrontMan]

10 minutes ago, StinkyBunny said:

Um, they're just fine for reduction without stressing the shit out of everything. I did it that way on an 80 and it worked just fine for me. YMMV. Some people have great luck with larger changes, I have not. I use lanthanum chloride too so I don't have a phosphate issue. I'd bet if he cranked up the flow some the cyano would disappear on it own with the water changes. And where did I say to stop at day 6? I did not. If you feel good doing 10g/day, go for it. My 50 cube has been trucking along on 5-6g every 4 days for almost 4 years and nothing but iodide and LnCl added to it. It's stuffed full of leather and hard corals, probably more than it should have in it.

 

If he has issues that high with PO4 it needs to be addressed, he needs a resin in there to remove them or use LnCl regularly. Dumping shit in there to kill the algae is doing what without it being removed? That's right, recycling the nutrients and ADDING to the load which is what he was after in the first place. Treat the CAUSE, NOT the product of the contaminant. We have no damn clue what his parameters are so, at best, we're just stabbing in the dark.

We know exactly what parameters are best for our tanks. It’s 2019. You may not know what parameters are best, but everyone else does. Just because you choose to ignore the scientific information, doesn’t mean that it’s not true.

 

Small percentage water changes are absolutely horrible way to export nutrients as has been shown in this thread with real numbers. If you choose to ignore basic math, then there isn’t much help for you, but it’s irresponsible to spread that ignorance to others.

 

You said that 100% of the water would be changed at day 6. That’s not true. Only about 75% would be changed at the end of day 6. From there you get diminishing returns because you are changing a small percentage.

 

I didn’t really see any corals to speak of in the photos. Fish are pretty resilient to salinity and temp changes. A large percentage water change would be far more effective and should be relatively non eventful for this tank.