JBJ 28 intermediate LED startup - what would you do with what I have?

[TatorTaco]

[Guest mcfishing620]

At least my thread has accomplished something for someone!  Haha

[TatorTaco]

I understand that you didn't appreciate the tone that information was provided to you.  This site has hundreds of users active at the moment, and that's a lot of different view points.  Sometimes, it can be challenging to convey messages electronically without nonverbal social cues like you would experience in a face-to-face conversation.   

 

With that aside, was the information valuable, or do you have additional questions that someone else could help you out with?  

[HarryPotter]

Pass the popcorn 

[Guest mcfishing620]

8 minutes ago, TatorTaco said:

I understand that you didn't appreciate the tone that information was provided to you.  This site has hundreds of users active at the moment, and that's a lot of different view points.  Sometimes, it can be challenging to convey messages electronically without nonverbal social cues like you would experience in a face-to-face conversation.   

 

With that aside, was the information valuable, or do you have additional questions that someone else could help you out with?  

@Clown79 had some great info and reasoning, and I can appreciate anyone who can take time to reply like that.  Those were not short replies.  My main questions at this point are:

 

Why is a canister filter so bad if they worked for thousands of people for many years, and still do?  My main filtration would still be my basket, and a skimmer, the canister would only be used as an add-on for a little extra filtration and to provide flow to the UV.  How is this bad?

 

Why is a UV filter so bad when they have no negative residual effects?  If they kill algae, which is my main intent, how does that hurt having one when it's already there to use?

 

Would a ReefOctopus BH1000 be a good choice for skimmer?  My BH 2000 is just way too big, and overkill for my size tank, but it worked great on my 90.

 

I listen to fact and reason, not just opinions, which seems to be a very difficult concept for some people to grasp.

[Thrassian Atoll]

I wonder if you could turn the canister filter into a chaeto reactor?

[burtbollinger]

10 minutes ago, mcfishing620 said:

@Clown79 had some great info and reasoning, and I can appreciate anyone who can take time to reply like that.  Those were not short replies.  My main questions at this point are:

 

Why is a canister filter so bad if they worked for thousands of people for many years, and still do?  My main filtration would still be my basket, and a skimmer, the canister would only be used as an add-on for a little extra filtration and to provide flow to the UV.  How is this bad?

 

Why is a UV filter so bad when they have no negative residual effects?  If they kill algae, which is my main intent, how does that hurt having one when it's already there to use?

 

Would a ReefOctopus BH1000 be a good choice for skimmer?  My BH 2000 is just way too big, and overkill for my size tank, but it worked great on my 90.

 

I listen to fact and reason, not just opinions, which seems to be a very difficult concept for some people to grasp.

no one wants to speak in facts...this is a hobby based on collective experience and opinions.

 

i am very hesitant to share facts....I rarely ever share a "fact"...just not gonna happen.  be wary of anyone who shares "facts"

again:  no pros for the canister filter other than your personal satisfaction that you are re-using old equipment.  it is a mess, adds complexity and is simply not needed on a 28g nano.

no benefit to the UV enough to warrant it being used.

the ReefOctopus is a great choice for HOB skimmer.

4 minutes ago, TILTON said:

I wonder if you could turn the canister filter into a chaeto reactor?

if you wanted to grow the chaeto...I'd much rather cut vinyl off the back and light the rear chamber stuffed with it....IF research deemed it actually beneficial.  I did that on an old JBJ 24 for a while...didnt impress me one way or another.  

[Guest mcfishing620]

Just now, TILTON said:

I wonder if you could turn the canister filter into a chaeto reactor?

WOW, someone finally being constructive!  This is exactly the type of replies I'm looking for, thank you. 

 

I was wondering the same, but I've never used that stuff and don't know if it would tear it up or not.  Since the canister is just additional, I'm basically just trying to figure out what would be best to put in there.  Would there be anything re-usable?  Bio balls?  It's primary purpose if flow for the UV, not to be a filter, but being a 2nd filter is just convenient.

[Boggers]

If you are determined to use the UV and canister filter JBJ gave you a way to use it:

"I spoke to some people at JBJ today, and they were saying I could go this route:

Magnum 350 canister with carbon in the basket with intake coming from center chamber, with my UV light in the return line feeding out to a side chamber. In the basket, use filter wool, Chemi-Pure, then Purigen. The canister is more used as a pump for the UV than a true filter. I may also put the ceramic beads in there until I get live rock."

 

You can put in live rock or ceramic beads in the canister filter if you want.

 

**Why many have moved away from canister filters on Saltwater**

The flow created by them is not that strong as it wants the water to be in contact with the filtration a little longer. However, because of this they tend to build up detritus in the bottom and within the pipes. For larger systems the amount is not as problematic as they are for smaller tanks

 

**Why UV lights do not get used**

Although they do kill off algae spores, they also kill beneficial bacteria. Once again in smaller tanks that effect is exeplified

 

These are based on my own use of a canister filter and UV. I will not be using them again. (love them on my FW tanks however)

Also, if you want less maintenance then the less equipment you use will be less to worry about failing.

 

I hope you can succeed in enjoying the tank you build.

[Thrassian Atoll]

4 minutes ago, burtbollinger said:

if you wanted to grow the chaeto...I'd much rather cut vinyl off the back and light the rear chamber stuffed with it....IF research deemed it actually beneficial.  I did that on an old JBJ 24 for a while...didnt impress me one way or another.  

I personally would not use it.  I would use a brs reactor or just put it in the back with a fuge light.  Origional poster is adamant on using it though, just wondered if repurposing it into a chaeto reactor would be feasible.

[burtbollinger]

lol no worries, dude has me blocked anyway lol...

 

OP's adamance seems to be the big hiccup in this entire thread.  Oh well.

[Guest mcfishing620]

1 minute ago, Boggers said:

If you are determined to use the UV and canister filter JBJ gave you a way to use it:

"I spoke to some people at JBJ today, and they were saying I could go this route:

Magnum 350 canister with carbon in the basket with intake coming from center chamber, with my UV light in the return line feeding out to a side chamber. In the basket, use filter wool, Chemi-Pure, then Purigen. The canister is more used as a pump for the UV than a true filter. I may also put the ceramic beads in there until I get live rock."

 

You can put in live rock or ceramic beads in the canister filter if you want.

 

**Why many have moved away from canister filters on Saltwater**

The flow created by them is not that strong as it wants the water to be in contact with the filtration a little longer. However, because of this they tend to build up detritus in the bottom and within the pipes. For larger systems the amount is not as problematic as they are for smaller tanks

 

**Why UV lights do not get used**

Although they do kill off algae spores, they also kill beneficial bacteria. Once again in smaller tanks that effect is exeplified

 

These are based on my own use of a canister filter and UV. I will not be using them again. (love them on my FW tanks however)

Also, if you want less maintenance then the less equipment you use will be less to worry about failing.

 

I hope you can succeed in enjoying the tank you build.

Excellent reply, thank you.

 

So based off your experience, if I just maintain the canister and lines well, would I be ok?  I would prefer a re-usable media like the ceramic rings, bio balls, ect to keep cost down.  I like the live rock idea also, have you seen anyone do that?

 

The bacteria UV lights kill...is that something that would only affect a reef tank with corals?  Or would fish suffer from this?  From what I've read, keeping the flow around 300gph, which is around what it would be from my canister, only kills algae.  This is directly from the book for my UV light.  I think they said around 90 gph or something, don't quote me, kills bacteria and sterilizes.

 

I totally understand the theory of less equipment is less to fail, very good point.

 

Keep on replying, yours are worth it and appreciated.

[Thrassian Atoll]

2 minutes ago, burtbollinger said:

lol no worries, dude has me blocked anyway lol...

 

You can still post on somebodies thread if that person blocks you?  ?

Just now, mcfishing620 said:

Excellent reply, thank you.

 

So based off your experience, if I just maintain the canister and lines well, would I be ok?  I would prefer a re-usable media like the ceramic rings, bio balls, ect to keep cost down.  I like the live rock idea also, have you seen anyone do that?

 

The bacteria UV lights kill...is that something that would only affect a reef tank with corals?  Or would fish suffer from this?  From what I've read, keeping the flow around 300gph, which is around what it would be from my canister, only kills algae.  This is directly from the book for my UV light.  I think they said around 90 gph or something, don't quote me, kills bacteria and sterilizes.

 

I totally understand the theory of less equipment is less to fail, very good point.

 

Keep on replying, yours are worth it and appreciated.

 

Bioballs is like the main thing people say to stay away from.  I do not know the specifics why, but that's something to research if you want to you use those and see why people don't recommend them.

[Guest mcfishing620]

I remember years ago when bio balls were the best thing ever.  This hobby is constantly changing.  I like knowing why things don't work from experience and facts, not just because something new and fancy looking came out.  If you wanted to stay up and use the latest and greatest in this hobby even a rich man would be broke.  That's why I'm stressing on the point of using old equipment.  If it used to work then, why wouldn't it now?  That's what I'm trying to get facts and experience on, and sometimes searching provides 'general' answers, but this is also a very specific hobby.  One thing different from someone else's tank could change things entirely, so answers sometimes need to be specific, which is why I research, as well as ask seemingly redundant questions on here.

[Thrassian Atoll]

6 minutes ago, mcfishing620 said:

I remember years ago when bio balls were the best thing ever.  This hobby is constantly changing.  I like knowing why things don't work from experience and facts, not just because something new and fancy looking came out.  If you wanted to stay up and use the latest and greatest in this hobby even a rich man would be broke.  That's why I'm stressing on the point of using old equipment.  If it used to work then, why wouldn't it now?  That's what I'm trying to get facts and experience on, and sometimes searching provides 'general' answers, but this is also a very specific hobby.  One thing different from someone else's tank could change things entirely, so answers sometimes need to be specific, which is why I research, as well as ask seemingly redundant questions on here.

 

Thats why I said I would research about why people don't use them anymore.  I just know they don't.  You can use them, I am just giving you a heads up to look into it a little before you take the plunge.

[Boggers]

I attempted a canister on a 7G and had to clean it out weekly, but I will admit it was pulling from display water and not after any floss or anything to catch the larger particles. 

If you set it up after floss you might not have that issue (can't determine off my use) I would think you could make it work if you are willing to take it apart and clean at bare min monthly (my opinion)

 

As for bio-balls: they designed them first for wet/dry applications where beneficial bacteria would thrive with the mix of water and air. Over time they have found them to not be as effective as other materials like live rock or ceramic balls due to the surface area is lower with bio-balls and they clog easier

 

UV: yes they are more of an issue with corals. phytoplankton is one of the main items corals eat. (ie and algae)

[Thrassian Atoll]

Here's a thread with a bunch of big words about bioballs.  

 

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2210490

[Guest mcfishing620]

4 minutes ago, Boggers said:

I attempted a canister on a 7G and had to clean it out weekly, but I will admit it was pulling from display water and not after any floss or anything to catch the larger particles. 

If you set it up after floss you might not have that issue (can't determine off my use) I would think you could make it work if you are willing to take it apart and clean at bare min monthly (my opinion)

 

As for bio-balls: they designed them first for wet/dry applications where beneficial bacteria would thrive with the mix of water and air. Over time they have found them to not be as effective as other materials like live rock or ceramic balls due to the surface area is lower with bio-balls and they clog easier

 

UV: yes they are more of an issue with corals. phytoplankton is one of the main items corals eat. (ie and algae)

 

3 minutes ago, TILTON said:

Here's a thread with a bunch of big words about bioballs.  

 

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2210490

So if bio balls are out, which seems to be a general consensus, would ceramic rings be a good option?  

 

Cleaning monthly is no big deal.  I have no problem dedicating a couple hours to thoroughly cleaning my tank and accessories once a month.  That's pretty much my goal, is eliminate as much as I can of the tedious weekly/bi-weekly stuff, and do a larger clean once a month.  

 

Again, I appreciate the fact you guys are replying with constructive information.

 

Btw TILTON, you have a VERY nice setup.  Just saw your pictures.

[Thrassian Atoll]

Just now, mcfishing620 said:

 

So if bio balls are out, which seems to be a general consensus, would ceramic rings be a good option?  

 

Cleaning monthly is no big deal.  I have no problem dedicating a couple hours to thoroughly cleaning my tank and accessories once a month.  That's pretty much my goal, is eliminate as much as I can of the tedious weekly/bi-weekly stuff, and do a larger clean once a month.  

 

Again, I appreciate the fact you guys are replying with constructive information.

 

Btw TILTON, you have a VERY nice setup.  Just saw your pictures.

Thanks!  I honestly don't know anything about ceramic rings.  All I use is chemipure blue, filter floss and do weekly water changes and skim pretty wet.  

 

You can make yourself a cheap media basket out of egg crate from lowes and some zipties. Cheap and easy.  

[Boggers]

these work well they have De-nitrate and phos removing ones as well: 

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/xport-bio-biomedia-cubes-brightwell.html

[Guest mcfishing620]

Just now, TILTON said:

Thanks!  I honestly don't know anything about ceramic rings.  All I use is chemipure blue, filter floss and do weekly water changes and skim pretty wet.  

 

You can make yourself a cheap media basket out of egg crate from lowes and some zipties. Cheap and easy.  

I already have a basket that came with the aquarium, and it had foam, then carbon, and bottom compartment was the ceramic rings.

 

I replaced foam with floss, and planned on using chemi pure in 2nd, purigen in 3rd.  Since I have the leftover carbon and ceramic rings, could those be used together in the canister, then when I need to clean, just get rid of the carbon,  and clean and put the rings back in?

2 minutes ago, Boggers said:

these work well they have De-nitrate and phos removing ones as well: 

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/xport-bio-biomedia-cubes-brightwell.html

Interesting, but seem like they require a process of their own to use them with additional chemicals, etc.  Is there anything that would be as simple as rinse/scrub and put back in?  This is why I'm on here, some of this stuff is new to me and people like you guys help a lot.

[Boggers]

No additional chemicals, they are built into the balls them-self.  The directions are to just toss some after 6mo and replace with fresh.

You can ask @metrokat as she has used them.

 

Add carbon in a bag in the canister and passively filter is not an issue

[Thrassian Atoll]

I think you will be fine with just chemipure and purigen.  You don't want your water too clean, especially with soft corals.

[Boggers]

8 minutes ago, TILTON said:

I think you will be fine with just chemipure and purigen.  You don't want your water too clean, especially with soft corals.

Agree, to me it's like apex Jr user to control lights...overkill

[Guest mcfishing620]

19 minutes ago, TILTON said:

I think you will be fine with just chemipure and purigen.  You don't want your water too clean, especially with soft corals.

 

10 minutes ago, Boggers said:

Agree, to me it's like apex Jr user to control lights...overkill

So what would you guys recommend with what I have? Do you think running the floss, chemi pure, and purigen in the basket with the ceramic rings in the canister up to a UV light would be ok? The flow rate would still be high enough to not kill bacteria in the UV light. It would be aimed only at killing algae and I do not plan on having a lot of coral.