Mitten_reef’s IM30L

[FISHnChix]

16 minutes ago, mitten_reef said:

is that a trick question???  cuz the more obvious answer seems to be never 😂

 

real answer part 1: One thing I do want to see tho, is that the frag starts to encrust the glue/plug a bit on the rack - at least then I'll know they're happy enough in my tank.  I don't wanna glue something on the rock to find it dead a week later, cuz it's never happy.  

 

real answer part 2:  I don't have any method or reasons why they stay there for as long as they usually end up, other than me being indecisive about where they go.  I usually sit on them until I have a handful of frags to mount, like right about now, then I do all the gluing all in one shot.  this way, i can try to avoid putting similar piece too close to each other and allow decent spacing between them.  I often buy frags "with potential", and foregoing the brandname frags with known colors/growth, which means it take a bit of time to figure out what they look like in my tank too.  that might just be one benefit of seeing a whole bunch before gluing, vs gluing them as they come in.  

 

also, often, the frags were waiting to go back to LFS.  A few I couldn't part with the original plug bases and they ended up re-growing into their own mini colonies as backups.  recently, as you may have seen, 4 frags just went out to @Cannedfish.  and about 10 frags from the rack, plus some directly from the main colonies, just arrived at @HarryPotter this morning.  Huge thanks to them for taking a chance on my frags and my shipping skills..    

 

been visualizing in my head a couple of spots on the center rock - can't quite commit.  

Haha I figured you were just being lazy😆.. but I also kill ever sps I get so I wanted to hear the method to the madness!

 

 

Good to hear harry is back in the game. Did he get the reefer going already??

[mitten_reef]

5 minutes ago, FISHnChix said:

Haha I figured you were just being lazy😆.. but I also kill ever sps I get so I wanted to hear the method to the madness!

 

 

Good to hear harry is back in the game. Did he get the reefer going already??

ok I figure you were asking about sps.  I thought what if you were asking about frags in general, but my answer was really about the sps frags.  post some examples on your thread and tag me, and maybe we can come up with some ideas on how to get better survival on your next sps...  

 

I think he posted some baby clownfish in his reefer thread or instagram a while ago.  

[mitten_reef]

One more boring frag shot, waiting for the orange to come through on the big one.  

my entire tank can be fluffy, and that popsicle-orange stick will continue to show barely glimpse of polyps. bonus, the skin at the base is tightening up like it’s gonna recede. 
 

the pink Millie is my latest “from-potential-to-pleasantly-surprised” piece, a bit brighter in real life. 

[DreC80]

Is the big one SCOP?  Is the orange a millie?  I got an orange millie from tck corals...but it's not quite there yet. 

[mitten_reef]

24 minutes ago, DreC80 said:

Is the big one SCOP?  Is the orange a millie?  I got an orange millie from tck corals...but it's not quite there yet. 

Yup and yup. Second was sold to me as rmf acid trip Millie. 

Edited May 19, 2020 by mitten_reef
No, I didn’t pay anything close to what the “big guys” are charging.

[mitten_reef]

23 hours ago, DreC80 said:

Is the big one SCOP?  Is the orange a millie?  I got an orange millie from tck corals...but it's not quite there yet. 

So as I was going back in time to search for the milka stylo pic for @FISHnChix, I found this little booger of the SCOP from last November, that makes it roughly 6 months ago. You can count the # of polyps. 😂

 

[DSFIRSTSLTWATER]

Ohh so I was talking to my lfs a little bit ago through Instagram and I'm gonna be getting a tester acro. He's gonna take some pics tomorrow and I may pull the trigger. I've decided I really need some greens and blues in my tank.

[DSFIRSTSLTWATER]

Here's one I think he has

 

[mitten_reef]

5 minutes ago, DSFIRSTSLTWATER said:

Here's one I think he has

 

#8 will likely not be cheap enough for a tester. Or am I supposed to go scope them out on Instagram?

[DSFIRSTSLTWATER]

He sent me 10 pics... All of them were 40 bucks.

[Cannedfish]

On 5/18/2020 at 9:24 PM, mitten_reef said:

Yup and yup. Second was sold to me as rmf acid trip Millie. 

Some people have said the RMF Acid Trip is the exact same acro as the ASD Rainbow. I'm beginning to believe, despite their price differences, the UC Peep Show and the ASD Rainbow are the same. Just food for thought.  Tanks looks good bud!

 

Oh PS: the yellow snow acro that I was sure was going to die, and browned out as much as any coral I've ever seen, decided to poke out some polyps this morning, and I am seeing the slightest shimmer of green... don't call it a comeback...

[mitten_reef]

5 hours ago, Cannedfish said:

Some people have said the RMF Acid Trip is the exact same acro as the ASD Rainbow. I'm beginning to believe, despite their price differences, the UC Peep Show and the ASD Rainbow are the same. Just food for thought.  Tanks looks good bud!

 

Oh PS: the yellow snow acro that I was sure was going to die, and browned out as much as any coral I've ever seen, decided to poke out some polyps this morning, and I am seeing the slightest shimmer of green... don't call it a comeback...

That’s exciting! Hope it continues to recover. I didn’t think it was gonna make it when you sent me the pic.  But then again, it literally survived every single adversity I’ve thrown at the tank so far.

[ECLS Reefer]

Hey with SPS frags, when they start to bleach a teeny weeny bit at the bottom that means they need more food? Or they hate your tank? Or the direction of the wind changed? Person coming for dinner without announcement? I want to say there was a well known reason but I can't remember.

[mitten_reef]

10 minutes ago, Dirté Sanchez said:

Hey with SPS frags, when they start to bleach a teeny weeny bit at the bottom that means they need more food? Or they hate your tank? Or the direction of the wind changed? Person coming for dinner without announcement? I want to say there was a well known reason but I can't remember.

All of the above. Oh and light, it may not like its new lighting situation. With newly acquired frags, your tank could potentially be wildly different than LFS in so many ways, causing it to act up in the first place.  So yeah, you can look at them the wrong way, and poof!  
 

usually in my case, it tends to be alk-related. If I see the skin tightening up or edges showing tissue recession, I’d check my alk first. And usually I’ll see it either low (below 7) or high (above 9). 
But this latest one with the orange stick, it appears that my salinity drifted too high, >36 ppt, usually keep 35 or under. 

semi-related, the more I dose the more, rather more often, that my salinity drift high.  It seems logical, as I’m introducing more concentrated form of salt into the tank via the ca,alk,mag supplements, all while maintaining the same volume of liquid. I’ve never looked into it further cuz it didn’t bother me. Wonder if anyone else see a similar phenomenon. 

[ECLS Reefer]

14 minutes ago, mitten_reef said:

All of the above. Oh and light, it may not like its new lighting situation. With newly acquired frags, your tank could potentially be wildly different than LFS in so many ways, causing it to act up in the first place.  So yeah, you can look at them the wrong way, and poof!  
 

usually in my case, it tends to be alk-related. If I see the skin tightening up or edges showing tissue recession, I’d check my alk first. And usually I’ll see it either low (below 7) or high (above 9). 
But this latest one with the orange stick, it appears that my salinity drifted too high, >36 ppt, usually keep 35 or under. 

semi-related, the more I dose the more, rather more often, that my salinity drift high.  It seems logical, as I’m introducing more concentrated form of salt into the tank via the ca,alk,mag supplements, all while maintaining the same volume of liquid. I’ve never looked into it further cuz it didn’t bother me. Wonder if anyone else see a similar phenomenon. 

My salinity problems always start when I use filter floss. My sump wasn't designed very well for the use of FF. I've been trying cutting blocks of it and leaving quite a lot of space to flow around and between the FF so that no chamber gets higher than one or the other because invariably thats when the nonsense starts. My alk has been holding dead steady at 10 for weeks, happily enough. So I assume the water chemistry is good since I'm having steady coralline growth too. So I guess it probably is the light. I moved the whole rack of acros to a spot on the back wall of the tank which put them slightly closer to the light. It was only one frag that got bleachy and it doesn't seem to have gotten worse, so maybe my height adjustment will make it happy again.

[mitten_reef]

7 hours ago, Dirté Sanchez said:

My salinity problems always start when I use filter floss. My sump wasn't designed very well for the use of FF. I've been trying cutting blocks of it and leaving quite a lot of space to flow around and between the FF so that no chamber gets higher than one or the other because invariably thats when the nonsense starts. My alk has been holding dead steady at 10 for weeks, happily enough. So I assume the water chemistry is good since I'm having steady coralline growth too. So I guess it probably is the light. I moved the whole rack of acros to a spot on the back wall of the tank which put them slightly closer to the light. It was only one frag that got bleachy and it doesn't seem to have gotten worse, so maybe my height adjustment will make it happy again.

Tbh, your alkalinity is probably what did it. 10dkh is high, comparatively speaking to the common practice of 7-8.5.  But without knowing where the LFS keeps their alk, it’s hard to be definitive on how big of an alk shock it was for your frag. For example, I’d consider 7 to 10 a huge jump in alk and STN is likely, even RTN. 

As I mentioned earlier, once alk rises above 9 (infrequently, but it happens), things started to look off in my tank - and that’s with corals that has been in my own tank for months/years. so if your frags had not been accustomed to that high alk, it’s definitely going to have a bit of a hard time initially. 

I’d recommend trying to lower the alk down to 8-8.5 range, while continuing to keep everything else stable. this can be done in many ways, let’s start with what is your current dosing method, how much, and how often?  Also, what your salt again?  I know you said you switched recently and had great response from the existing corals. 

[DreC80]

11 minutes ago, mitten_reef said:

Tbh, your alkalinity is probably what did it. 10dkh is high, comparatively speaking to the common practice of 7-8.5.  But without knowing where the LFS keeps their alk, it’s hard to be definitive on how big of an alk shock it was for your frag. For example, I’d consider 7 to 10 a huge jump in alk and STN is likely, even RTN. 

As I mentioned earlier, once alk rises above 9 (infrequently, but it happens), things started to look off in my tank - and that’s with corals that has been in my own tank for months/years. so if your frags had not been accustomed to that high alk, it’s definitely going to have a bit of a hard time initially. 

I’d recommend trying to lower the alk down to 8-8.5 range, while continuing to keep everything else stable. this can be done in many ways, let’s start with what is your current dosing method, how much, and how often?  Also, what your salt again?  I know you said you switched recently and had great response from the existing corals. 

All good advice here.  Most coral vendors list their target parameters on their websites and usually fall in the 7 to 8 dkh range for SPS.  I like to keep mine around 7.5...that way a little drift each way isn't catastrophic.  Usually high alk and  high light equals bad day for SPS, especially partnered with low nutrients.

[Cannedfish]

1 hour ago, DreC80 said:

All good advice here.  Most coral vendors list their target parameters on their websites and usually fall in the 7 to 8 dkh range for SPS.  I like to keep mine around 7.5...that way a little drift each way isn't catastrophic.  Usually high alk and  high light equals bad day for SPS, especially partnered with low nutrients.

I second this advice and the advice above from @mitten_reef. I may be beating a dead horse, but hitting things with sticks is fun so, I'll continue to pile up on that poor equine.

 

I think keeping alk around 7.5 dkh long term has several benefits that largely outweigh whatever additional growth you may get at the more trendy high alk levels. Generally, 1) as mentioned, it allows for parameter drift. When you add or subtract something, trim coral,  or you're dosing amounts are in between mls (relevant for nano tanks), a slight (or even mildly significant) drift upwards or downwards from 7.5 isn't catastrophic. For example, after taking out a large pectinia my alk (at the current dosing levels), has drifted from about 7.8 to 8.4 over the last 6 days. This can be easily managed with water changes and monitoring without changing the dosing schedule till growth catches up. 2) 7.5 makes emergency water changes easier. There will inevitably be a time when you need to do a massive water change because you've done something stupid and you won't have enough RS Pro, and you will have to run out to Petco and get some instant ocean. The difference in alk between the salts without adjustment is going to make things more complicated. 3) as mentioned above, most LFS keep their tanks at around NSW levels (7.0 - 8.0 ish), and I have found most end up drifting below this level because they error on the side of under dosing than over dosing, or they don't dose at all. In fact, when I tested the water after picking up a trachy this week, the LFS's LPS coral tank's alk level was 4.1. I was nervous acclimating the new frag up to my tank's 7.5. I don't think the coral could have acclimated to 10.0. 4) I briefly ran my tank at high alk levels 10.0+ attempting to get faster growth. Overall, I didn't notice much of a difference, besides the fact everything was much more sensitive to change. I may be getting out ahead of my skis, but the high alk benefits largely manifest themselves on large (100+ gallon) mature SPS systems, where stability is already rock solid, and growth is already good. But IDK.... I can barely keep my system going so what do I know. 

[ECLS Reefer]

2 hours ago, mitten_reef said:

Tbh, your alkalinity is probably what did it. 10dkh is high, comparatively speaking to the common practice of 7-8.5.  But without knowing where the LFS keeps their alk, it’s hard to be definitive on how big of an alk shock it was for your frag. For example, I’d consider 7 to 10 a huge jump in alk and STN is likely, even RTN. 

As I mentioned earlier, once alk rises above 9 (infrequently, but it happens), things started to look off in my tank - and that’s with corals that has been in my own tank for months/years. so if your frags had not been accustomed to that high alk, it’s definitely going to have a bit of a hard time initially. 

I’d recommend trying to lower the alk down to 8-8.5 range, while continuing to keep everything else stable. this can be done in many ways, let’s start with what is your current dosing method, how much, and how often?  Also, what your salt again?  I know you said you switched recently and had great response from the existing corals. 

I haven’t switched salt. I’ve always used Red Sea CPS and it mixes out around 10. So hopefully they’ll get used to it because otherwise they’d get shocked and then fall. Everything else always looks super happy in there. So fingers crossed.... I’d hate to purposefully have to start lowering and chasing the KH when it’s stable like this fresh out of the barrel and then doesn’t budge

 

 

i say shocked and then fall meaning when I do a water change at 10 dkh and then have to let it fall back down... I’d rather it just stay right even. The tiny area of bleaching was stable yesterday and I’ll have to check tonight when I get home to see if it remains so. Tomorrow is testing and maintenance day, so we will see what all that says too. I have actually tried in the past to let the dkh fall to 8 as you said but it won’t stay there- it always wants to swing back up. So this is where it seems to have settled out happy. 

[mitten_reef]

51 minutes ago, Dirté Sanchez said:

I’ve always used Red Sea CPS and it mixes out around 10

it's a myth started by one individual on here that you can't keep moderate-alk with high-alk salt. i got tired of discussing the concept of dilution and concentration that I gave up, after all there are many ways to skin a cat.  but now it became parrotted by almost everyone on this site, but you'll never see me jump on that bandwagon.  it's simple chemistry at the end of the day.  with 10-15% wc every 2-3 weeks, most tanks' alkalinity won't be affected if the tank is stable and steady in the 7-7.5 range.  I used RSCP for years and my alk was always under 8 with 10-15% wc back then.  I'm actually in the progress of moving back to RSCP wc, either in whole or at least 50%, just to improve my overall trace element balance and availability.  I'll keep a stash of blue bucket for emergency, when I need more than 20-25% wc.  

51 minutes ago, Dirté Sanchez said:

So hopefully they’ll get used to it because otherwise they’d get shocked and then fall

falling alk, as long as it doesn't drop precipitously below 6.5 (this number is solely my opinion), is WAY less harmful than spiking alk.  that's why I also asked for your dosing method, how much, and how often.  

 

51 minutes ago, Dirté Sanchez said:

i say shocked and then fall meaning when I do a water change at 10 dkh

just because you're doing wc with 10dkh, your entire system won't rise to that level right afterward.   again, see my point #1.  

51 minutes ago, Dirté Sanchez said:

I have actually tried in the past to let the dkh fall to 8 as you said but it won’t stay there- it always wants to swing back up.

is it possible that you're dosing too much than the tank needs?   I acknowledge that RSCP wc will contribute to the alk rising over time if you choose to keep alk in that 7-8 range, but it'd be weeks/months.  

.

.

.

I'm just not subscribing to the now-popular opinion that your tank needs to be where your salt is, or that your salt drives your tank's alk target.   there are many factors that made it work for me though; wc %, how often, and coral growth are definitely important pieces of that puzzle.   

 

Also, there are many things you have to learn truly through direct experience with your own tank when it comes to its alkalinity consumption.  alk management is also very hard to pick up on what other said and try to mimic right out the gate.  it took me a few years of following many SPS tank threads to come up with my own conclusion.  unfortunately, this place (NR) is slowly losing (had lost already?) its sps knowledge base of the past and not many new ones had popped up beyond the handful of individuals that interact on my thank thread here 😞.    

 

P.S. thanks to all acro-heads and sps fans, you know who you are, that had been regularly stopping by to share thoughts and discussions.

 

Edited May 21, 2020 by mitten_reef
add p.s.

[DSFIRSTSLTWATER]

3 hours ago, DreC80 said:

All good advice here.  Most coral vendors list their target parameters on their websites and usually fall in the 7 to 8 dkh range for SPS.  I like to keep mine around 7.5...that way a little drift each way isn't catastrophic.  Usually high alk and  high light equals bad day for SPS, especially partnered with low nutrients.

Oh wow that's a good point 👍. I never thought about that. My alk is usually around 8. What if you have higher nutrients? Will lower alk be ok as well?

[DSFIRSTSLTWATER]

2 hours ago, Cannedfish said:

I second this advice and the advice above from @mitten_reef. I may be beating a dead horse, but hitting things with sticks is fun so, I'll continue to pile up on that poor equine.

 

I think keeping alk around 7.5 dkh long term has several benefits that largely outweigh whatever additional growth you may get at the more trendy high alk levels. Generally, 1) as mentioned, it allows for parameter drift. When you add or subtract something, trim coral,  or you're dosing amounts are in between mls (relevant for nano tanks), a slight (or even mildly significant) drift upwards or downwards from 7.5 isn't catastrophic. For example, after taking out a large pectinia my alk (at the current dosing levels), has drifted from about 7.8 to 8.4 over the last 6 days. This can be easily managed with water changes and monitoring without changing the dosing schedule till growth catches up. 2) 7.5 makes emergency water changes easier. There will inevitably be a time when you need to do a massive water change because you've done something stupid and you won't have enough RS Pro, and you will have to run out to Petco and get some instant ocean. The difference in alk between the salts without adjustment is going to make things more complicated. 3) as mentioned above, most LFS keep their tanks at around NSW levels (7.0 - 8.0 ish), and I have found most end up drifting below this level because they error on the side of under dosing than over dosing, or they don't dose at all. In fact, when I tested the water after picking up a trachy this week, the LFS's LPS coral tank's alk level was 4.1. I was nervous acclimating the new frag up to my tank's 7.5. I don't think the coral could have acclimated to 10.0. 4) I briefly ran my tank at high alk levels 10.0+ attempting to get faster growth. Overall, I didn't notice much of a difference, besides the fact everything was much more sensitive to change. I may be getting out ahead of my skis, but the high alk benefits largely manifest themselves on large (100+ gallon) mature SPS systems, where stability is already rock solid, and growth is already good. But IDK.... I can barely keep my system going so what do I know. 

Wow that's a great explanation 😮

[DSFIRSTSLTWATER]

How much of a swing either way is dramatic? Like I've always been under the impression that .5 either way is horrible. Am I wrong with that thinking? Do you have more wriggle room? Like say 1 dkh either way?

[DreC80]

6 minutes ago, DSFIRSTSLTWATER said:

Oh wow that's a good point 👍. I never thought about that. My alk is usually around 8. What if you have higher nutrients? Will lower alk be ok as well?

8 dkh is fine even with higher nutrients.  I run 7.5 dkh with 20 to 25 ppm no3 and .03 to .08 po4.  Still getting plenty of growth and good color with this. Higher nutrients can cause browning...but you can kind of offset that by increasing the lighting intensity.  It's really just a balancing act.

[DSFIRSTSLTWATER]

Just now, DreC80 said:

8 dkh is fine even with higher nutrients.  I run 7.5 dkh with 20 to 25 ppm no3 and .03 to .08 po4.  Still getting plenty of growth and good color with this. Higher nutrients can cause browning...but you can kind of offset that by increasing the lighting intensity.  It's really just a balancing act.

Wow that's interesting 🤔. I've only been dabbling with sps since fall. Mitten sent me some frags of purple stylos and bubblegum digis. Had a rocky start 🤣. They are alive and bouncing back now that I fixed a few issues him and I talked about. I know what browned out sps look like now 😂